Talk:Arriva North West and Wales

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 * For the record, this problem was solved a while ago. Arriva436talk 21:00, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Company name
Hi, it's my turn to ask about the company's name! I was looking at the other articles on Arriva company subsidiaries recently. Now, Arriva Shires & Essex has always has an ampersand, when the "Arriva serving xyz..." descriptors were used so was an ampersand. Numerous model buses I have confirm this. Today I had the article Arriva Guildford and West Surrey moved to Arriva Guildford & West Surrey. It seems this subsidiary uses the ampersand too (as did their predecessors "Guildford & West Surrey"). I checked this by going out and checking the legal lettering of buses (and looking like a fool too!).

This begs the question about "North West and Wales". It is very unlikely I can go up north to find this out for myself, so does anyone else know if the "and" is definitely used. If something is found otherwise, would a page move be sensible? If anyone could do this it would be great! Arriva436talk 21:07, 4 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm pretty confident that the full unified "North West and Wales" has never been used on vehicles in any form, either as a descriptor or as legal lettering. Descriptors have largely been phased out now, but prior to this happening, they were separately branded as "ARRIVA serving Merseyside", "ARRIVA serving the North West", "ARRIVA gwasanaethau Cymru" etc. Legal lettering is still specific to each of the several licences held - certainly, for Liverpool vehicles, it remains "ARRIVA MERSEYSIDE". (I'll double-check that on a physical bus tomorrow!)
 * This article was in fact originally named "Arriva North-West & Wales", and I renamed it to its current title a while ago. Losing the hyphen was my main concern, but I decided to change the ampersand to the word "and" at the same time, based solely on how the Arriva website renders it. I would have no problem with it being changed again, but as there is little or no public usage of the full name, there probably isn't a pressing need.
 * Incidentally, I seem to remember when the Arriva brand was first introduced, they were pretty fussy about the fact that the name should be rendered in capital letters wherever possible - although they seem to have long since given up that whim as unrealistic.
 * Quackdave (talk) 22:22, 4 September 2008 (UTC)


 * According to the History of Arriva in the North West and Wales, this is a combination of Arriva North West and Arriva Cymru, and to retain that meaning, the use of an ampersand would not be appropriate. I think the comments about operating companies names being used on the buses may be true.-Secondarywaltz (talk) 22:32, 4 September 2008 (UTC)


 * As long as everybody is confident that the use of "and" is the correct name, then its fine by me, I was just querying. I realised that Arriva North West and Wales is a very big company, and used separate operating licenses. Guildford & West Surrey is a very small subsidiary so has only one. Shires & Essex have two, "Arriva The Shires" and "Arriva East Herts & Essex". I brought it up because it is now the only Arriva article with the full word of "and", but a long as you think it's right, it can be left as it is. After all, you're the experts for that part of the country!! Arriva436talk 11:56, 5 September 2008 (UTC)


 * It's still turned out to be useful that you raised it, because it's caused me to spot a separate but related error. The article refers to "Arriva North West & Wales Ltd", but ANW&W is not actually a company (I've checked this at www.companieshouse.gov.uk), so I'll correct it now. As far as I understand it, it's an "administrative unit" - a convenient label for five or six legally distinct companies being jointly managed from the same head office.
 * Just out of interest, I did check the legal lettering on five or six buses, and they all said either "ARRIVA MERSEYSIDE LTD." or "ARRIVA NORTH WEST LTD.", but there was not the consistency between depot allocation and legal lettering that I would have expected. One possible explanation may be that the licence allocations have been "mingled" between depots, so as to cater for changed vehicle requirements (per depot) from fixed vehicle authorisations (per licence)? Anyway, that's an aside, which doesn't matter for the purposes of the article!
 * Quackdave (talk) 17:08, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Excellet! I'm glad this discussion has been of some use. Sometimes it's worth bringing these things up, you never know what may happen!! I've heard stories of buses transferring depots and not having the legal lettering change, so I'd assume they are pretty lax on it. I see you have now made the changes. Arriva436talk 17:35, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

← Well I've just read that Wales and North West are to de-merge from January 2009, so that will be interesting!! Arriva436talk 15:32, 19 September 2008 (UTC)