Talk:Art. Lebedev Studio/Archives/2013

Notability of Controversies?
Is it just me, or do the so called controversies seem kind of...weak? Lebedev's opinion on the letter Ë doesn't really merit a whole paragraph dedicated to it, and the second 'controversy' seems more like a personal quirk than a controversy. I'm not sure these meet wikipedia's views on notability, and could probably be either removed, or mentioned briefly in a different section. Either way, they don't seem to warrant a whole section to themselves, since neither is contentious enough to be called 'controversial', by any stretch of the imagination. Android 93 (talk) 14:50, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
 * As i said above, they can hardly be even called "controversies", unless they were seriously documented as such anywhere except blogs.
 * It is quite likely that his opinions about orthography, typography and grammar are influential. His studio is very popular in Russia and outside it, although for different products; he is himself quite a celebrity, although he has been avoiding mainstream press for years; his personal LiveJournal holds one of the highest ratings, although that can be the result of "flash mobs". A lot of although's! So his influence is just a guess, and better sources are needed. --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 16:21, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Advertisement
Please explain what is advertisement here. It's a description of unique features of a website, which says something about the company. If that's advertisement, remove all references to Microsoft Windows from Microsoft. --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 19:02, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Reliable sources
Please provide citations to reliable sources for material per the Wikipeida policy of verifiability. Use of primary sources is discouraged as it leads to original research. TheRedPenOfDoom (talk) 12:40, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Please challenge it claim by claim. Don't remove half an article with a one word explanation. --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 12:46, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
 * There was only one claim and it was identified in the edit summary - the material was not sourced per WP:V - unsourced material may be challenged and removed. It has been challenged and removed several times and each time replaced without adequate references provided. TheRedPenOfDoom (talk) 13:23, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Now seriously: the biggest problem i can see here is secondary sources about the hiring contests. The contests themselves are easy to find on the website, which is a primary source; they are also unique and popular in the Russian internet culture, but most sources about it would be blogs, and it's a bit hard to find a blog that would be a worthy source by Wikipedia standards (which is, all in all, a good thing).
 * The info about hanging punctuation and letters on the website is based on a primary source, but it's a unique and relevant thing and
 * Third party sources for all the rest are ridiculously easy to google up. I'll add some, even though it would blow up the references section without real need. --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 13:03, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Remember that the sources need to be reliable - blog references do not count. Also, the page by page guide to the company's web site is also failing of notatbility and amounts to a mirror web site or advertisement for the company. TheRedPenOfDoom (talk) 13:20, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
 * As i said - the hiring contests are hard to source well, so you may remove them. AFAIK they are a pretty important factor in the Russian internet culture, but i have no good sources about their importance and AFAIK = OR. I don't know how well do you know Russian, but artlebedev.ru and related websites have many more interesting and popular things which i won't describe here, because that would be way too much original research and i don't want this article to look like Fark.com or Slashdot. The thing with the hanging punctuation is pretty unique, though - it's more than a mere website mirror. Of course, this "unique" claim is itself a bit of OR, but it does say something about the studio's especially expressed care about typography and besides - have you seen anything like that anywhere?
 * The major design jobs and industrial products - especially the Optimus keyboard - are so easily source-able and notable that they really should be out of question. I'll add some refs soon, even though it's quite redundant to repeatedly cite stuff like Engadget and Ars Tecnica et al. It is not advertising either, because the article just says that they did those things and it doesn't say that they did them exceptionally well. (And i don't think that they are as amazing as the studio itself claims.) --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 14:08, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Criticism section
The info in the criticism section is rather problematic. Without sources it sounds too much like personal opinion.

I am also disappointed by the studio's ongoing and totally un-cool cooperation with Microsoft, but who else is criticizing the studio about it?

As for the ё issue, i totally disagree with Artemy, but in this case he really just supports the existing spelling standard. If you can find any articles written by notable supporters of ё and mention Lebedev, please add them. He also proposed to refer to coffee in the neutral gender, instead of the standard masculine; that's also potentially controversial.

The most controversial thing i remember about the studio is the appeal to Starbucks: "Dear Starbucks, please make Shokoladnitsa finally die". It appeared on the artlebedev.ru frontpage a couple of months ago. Some blogs said that Shokoladnitsa's lawyers threatened to sue. However, blogs are not the best sources. --Amir E. Aharoni 05:27, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh, and another thing: They promised to make Optimus "an open-source keyboard", but now they say that they won't make a Linux version of the software, because they want "to make it possible for 95% of people to use it first". Another un-cool thing, but that's just my personal opinion. --Amir E. Aharoni 05:30, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
 * That doesn't imply it won't be open-source. As long as the hardware specs are available, anyone can write a Linux driver.70.79.74.110 (talk) 22:44, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

I dont see any controversity with his stance on ё letter. His own name in short form (example mentioned in the article) is written with ё for the only viable reason to do so that he did mentioned in "mandership": same word written without it, e.g. тема, is "theme" in Russian - a different word, and the one which can create confusion sometimes (Example as simple as: Тёма на заседании - a short way to say "Artemy is present at the meeting" and Тема на заседании - again a verbal form of "theme of the meeting").

With coffee it's another story. Gramamtical tradition puts it at masculine, but basically everyone in Russia refer to it in neutral. Basically, this is only a point of view on a fundamental question "when does a given grammar mistake becomes enough of a tradition to be accepted as a norm".

I agree, there needs to be a Criticism section, especially considering how insecure Tema Lebedev is and how Lebedev simply cannot STAND being criticized. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.22.166.8 (talk) 13:59, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

"Its motto is "Design will save the world." The funny thing: they themselves write in their manuals that "design is war" ("дизайн – это война"): see here: []. A dangerous saver of the world... This is an adaptation of a totally different quote by Dostoevsky, which is "Beauty will save the world". - 89.110.13.0 (talk) 17:41, 11 July 2013 (UTC)