Talk:Arthur Guinness

Untitled
The following was part of the article but I think properly belongs on the talk page: "Small extra point - he died on 23 January 1803 and his gravestone says he was '78 years of age'. Therefor he was either born in early January 1725 or in 1724. Who says 24 September 1725? There is no birth certificate." --Ryano 10:29, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Start classification
I have classified this article as a start due to its level of detail and organisation. Capitalistroadster 11:44, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Food and drink Tagging
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Christian Influence
It would be great to cover, or rebut the deep Christian faith that drove Arthur to found his eponymous drink cf. [] - surely ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.208.123.138 (talk) 18:36, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

"Arthur's day" in 2009
The text (much of it verbiage) has been moved to the bottom of the page.86.44.159.233 (talk) 10:31, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Flag
Just wondering whether the Republic of Ireland's flag is appropriate under nationality. He was born in the Kingdom of Ireland and when he died, Ireland had become part of the UK. Whilst the Union Flag probably isn't appropriate, is the ROI flag?

90.196.105.181 (talk) 17:11, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

The Republic of ireland is the best place to drink a Guinneas so yes : D Seamusalba (talk) 04:09, 22 December 2009 (UTC)


 * The Republic of Ireland's flag is inappropriate as he wasn't born in the Republic of Ireland. He wasn't born when Ireland merged with Great Britain to form the United Kingdom so the Union Flag isn't appropraite either. The flag of the Kingdom of Ireland thus is the only appropriate flag. Mabuska (talk) 10:26, 16 May 2010 (UTC)


 * See WP:MOSFLAG - should be the Kingdom of Ireland symbol if anything.86.42.203.243 (talk) 06:05, 12 March 2011 (UTC)


 * A rather late response, but none the less it is a good point. However the flag has since disappeared from the article altogether so there snone to correct at the moment :-) Mabuska (talk) 13:44, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

Descended from Gaelic Catholics in the 1600s
There is no need for this statement to be worded as such: The Guinness family, though Protestants, claimed descent from the Magennis Gaelic Catholic clan of County Down in the 1600s. It sounds slightly sectarian in overtone as why so blantantly declare it when there is no need? Especially when its inaccurate... Robert Bell in his book, The Book of Ulster Surnames, states: "In the sixteenth century, well before the Platation, many of the MacGuinnesses accepted the Reformation". For nitpickers; MacGuinness being of the same origin and meaning as Magennis, Maginnis and MacEnis in County Down at that time (all being interchangable). Mabuska (talk) 15:59, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Certainly Ken Maginnis was one, and a branch of the clan had the unusual name "MacEnaspick" - sons of a Magennis bishop of Dromore in the 1500s.86.46.227.159 (talk) 22:00, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
 * User:Mabuska you seem to have misunderstood the quote you yourself have provided. It indicates that some of the McGuinesses accepted Protestantism once it was brought in by foreigners, but that they themselves were originally Catholic Gaels.  This is what the article itself originally stated and what you tried to change.  Try to read your sources more thoroughly and critically next time

The article now just says that Guinness's parents were the children of Catholics. I can find no other mention of religion in the article. But I understand that Guinness was an Anglican (how else could he be the godson of an Anglican archbishop otherwise?). I find the article is now misleading and feel this needs some clarification.

Marchino61 (talk) 05:04, 14 June 2019 (UTC)


 * Was his beer baptised Catholic or Protestant?84.203.56.95 (talk) 13:05, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

Politics
Is Indymedia.ie a suitable wikipedia source? It comes across as left-wing-pov and biased against business.86.46.212.174 (talk) 09:14, 4 February 2010 (UTC)


 * I see nothing wrong with the source. The information it sources has nothing to do with business and is hardly bcking up left-wing or anti-right-wing agenda (talk) 10:34, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

I've put his politics in context as it was a bit ragged. Unsurprisingly Grattan's Irish Patriot Party plus Edmund Burke.PatrickGuinness (talk) 18:11, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

Mabuska, you've asked for this to be discussed here, but you reverted my correction without the same courtesy. It should be clear that Independent Media Center is far from a neutral source; anyone can write on it, it is against "neo-Liberal" values, and has offended prosecutors in Italy, the USA and Britain. The essay was plain wrong to say that AG was against home rule, as he supported Grattan, whose Irish Patriot Party was the template for Irish home rule until 1918. I don't mind people coming up with new theories, but AG was a brewer, so his politics only need 3 lines. Instead of arguing that someone wasn't this label, or disliked that, it's surely far better to say what he liked and did.

Some of Grattan's supporters went on to join the United Irish movement, but Grattan and AG did not. The United Irish had 300,000 paid-up members by 1798, but this was less than 10% of the population of 5 million. I don't mind mentioning AG's non-membership; there is now a general assumption that the United Irish had near-universal support, but this is not supported by the numbers, nor by the results.PatrickGuinness (talk) 16:03, 10 January 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified
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Circular Reporting
I have removed the longstanding quote:

with Arthur "directly opposed to any movement toward Irish independence" and wanting "Ireland to remain under British control"

This seems to have given rise to an unfortunate example of circular reporting. A quick Google search will show that all references to these "quotes" link back to Wikipedia, and the original source on Wikipedia is a blog post. It was inaccurately portrayed to make it look like this was a direct or contemporary quote by or about Guinness, but it is not. Also the original blog post states English control, not British control - so it wasn't even copied correctly. Jacobfrid (talk) 15:16, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

Ale vs Porter
There’s mention of a couple of times about Guiness switching production at the Dublin brewery from “Ale” to ”Porter”. To my understanding Porter is a subset of Ale. I can’t access the original sources but hopefully someone has insight to explain what type of Ale was originally brewed. 14.201.87.62 (talk) 12:55, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Usually Ale and Porter (beer) are considered sub-sets of Beer, rather than one being a sub-set of another. DeCausa (talk) 13:09, 18 March 2024 (UTC)