Talk:Artificial consciousness/Archive 4

'''Note: Some of the following discussion is recent and summarized. The original discussion is in the archives (end of 2, start of 3).

FREEZE
I have protected this page. ugen64 00:12, Mar 14, 2004 (UTC)

Thanks. Ataturk 00:17, 14 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for protecting. I didn't want to do this; in fact, I want peace. Tell me if there's anything I can do to make Paul understand. Tkorrovi

I don't want uber-censors attacking text, unless its POV. Ataturk 00:42, 14 Mar 2004 (UTC)

POV is bad. Paul Beardsell 00:44, 14 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Paul removing lots of text is not NPOV. I wanted to protect me and others whom Paul reverted. I didn't protect, in fact I only started it a little. I want to be tolerant. I thought it was a good thing to do. I tried, but I was treated badly. Paul caused a mess. He requested peer review; who'd want to do that in this mess? Tkorrovi

Why do you think I'm here? I was annoyed too. Ataturk 01:26, 14 Mar 2004 (UTC)

POV that Artificial Consciousness can be real is good. Ataturk 01:29, 14 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Ataturk, thanks for saying your point of view. It must be added as it's not obviously wrong, even though I doubt it's completely right. Thanks, and sorry for whatever I may have caused you. Tkorrovi

We should write stuff possibly at Talk:Artificial consciousness/real and Talk:Artificial consciousness/notreal, for example. Ataturk 02:04, 14 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I'm not a WikiExpert. (editor's note: he misunderstood the idea) Subpages are bad. Tkorrovi

You misunderstand my point. Subpages are good. Ataturk 01:37, 15 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Different articles for different POVs is not NPOV. Tkorrovi

I thought you liked my idea. Ataturk 02:35, 15 Mar 2004 (UTC)

All I'm suggesting are different areas for discussion while a consensus is reached. Ataturk 02:38, 15 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I want everyone to contribute to a consensus. Ataturk 03:39, 15 Mar 2004 (UTC)

New Version(s)
I've started a real AC position. But there's too many conflicting views; please contirbute at Talk:Artificial consciousness/real. There's no rules, no master editor, etc. there. No unreasonable reverts (as per policy); all can edit. Both Tkorrovi and Paul may contribute, although Tkorovvi may like a not real perspective more; he should go to Talk:Artificial consciousness/notreal. Ataturk 02:38, 15 Mar 2004 (UTC)

That's cool, it's better than this mess, but those articles should be strictly POV (depending on which one it is). Paul Beardsell 03:17, 15 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Yes. Ataturk 03:42, 15 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Who is Ataturk?
> No, you suggest to write an article either entirely based on one point of view or entirely based on other point of view ("real" or "not real"), this is not NPOV ("no point of view") principle of Wikipedia. As there are different points of view, then the article can be NPOV only when all these points of view are incorporated in one article. Tkorrovi

> Now you have me confused as only a few paras above you seem to be in favour of the idea. Ataturk 02:35, 15 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Stop tricking me. That's POV. Are you Paul?


 * You said I can't contribute if I was anon; before, I was anon. Ataturk 04:13, 15 Mar 2004 (UTC)

There's nothing substantial on your userpage; what is going on? Tkorrovi 15 Mar 2004

I meant Paul. Tkorrovi 15 Mar 2004

Disagree with ataturk without involving me; not everyone disagreeing with you is me. Paul Beardsell 04:07, 15 Mar 2004 (UTC)

NPOV doesn't mean "no point of view." 203.100.251.10 04:32, 15 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Register; if you want to discuss stuff, you must identify yourself (editor's note: no policy says that anons cannot contribute to important decisions.) Tkorrovi 15 Mar 2004

Thanks for fixing stuff. Ataturk 12:16, 16 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Consensus
This situation is cool. Someone should make a new version (probably a copy of this original page). 203.100.251.10 05:00, 15 Mar 2004 (UTC)

The new version is at: Talk:Artificial consciousness/real. 203.100.251.10 05:06, 15 Mar 2004 (UTC)

A related discussion regarding the freeze: Village pump  203.100.251.10 16:46, 15 Mar 2004 (UTC)

tkorrovi is unreasonably attacking me, not trying to form a consensus. Paul Beardsell 16:52, 15 Mar 2004 (UTC)

No dispute is solved yet
tkorrovi, you stopped contributing. Does that mean you like the new version? Paul Beardsell 17:15, 15 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I don't agree. The protected page should be the beginning of any revisions. Tkorrovi 15 Mar 2004

Tkorrovi won't contribute on any article except the frozen one. He should look at Consciousness (artificial) Paul Beardsell 18:16, 15 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Now tkorrovi is UNREASONABLY adding deciding the headers! Another edit war!

That unsigned comment was probably Paul. How much headings did I change? Barely any, so I guess you don't want anyone else to edit. Tkorrovi 16 Mar 2004

Consciousness (artificial)
This awesome page should be where everyone makes new edits: Consciousness (artificial). 203.221.246.108 02:12, 16 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Reciprocal courtesy requested
At the top of consciousness (artificial), it says:


 * Please see artificial consciousness for an alternative article on this subject. This article derives from that one. See Village pump also.

I want tkorrovi to stop deleting a notice like that from this talk page.

Ataturk 11:51, 16 Mar 2004 (UTC)

That is irrelevant. Maybe Paul and/or Ataturk wanna be master editors? Tkorrovi 16 Mar 2004

New Comments
Paul wanted to make the page blank: and he tried to remove other stuff. I tried to stop him. Tkorrovi 15 Mar 2004

You are trying to protect against improvement. Paul Beardsell 16:13, 15 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I moved these comments. Tkorrovi 15 Mar 2004

They don't belong in the Consensus section. == == makes a header. Paul Beardsell 16:36, 15 Mar 2004 (UTC)

For making it clear. (editor's note: ???) Tkorrovi 15 Mar 2004

The comment function should be changed. Tkorrovi 15 Mar 2004


 * You should stick to how it is now. Paul Beardsell 17:22, 15 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I'm prepared to withstand your harassment forever. Tkorrovi 15 Mar 2004


 * Stay, read NPOV, stop unreasonably reverting, contribute. Paul Beardsell 17:23, 15 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Stop making new sections. Tkorrovi 15 Mar 2004

Stop making new sections. Tkorrovi 15 Mar 2004


 * I think Artificial consciousness belongs at Tkorrovi's article.  Paul Beardsell 01:36, 16 Mar 2004 (UTC)

> And it is also obvious that they do not belong in the Consensus section. To start a new section place two '=' signs each side of the section header. You are able to do this for yourself. Paul Beardsell 16:36, 15 Mar 2004 (UTC)

All new comments should be under the last section, no matter what it is.

Tkorrovi 15 Mar 2004

Then what's the point of headings? Paul Beardsell 18:32, 15 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Those whose contributions are unwelcome here should edit at Consciousness (artificial). 203.221.246.108 02:12, 16 Mar 2004 (UTC)

203.221.246.108 (presumably Paul Beardsell), you're not a sysop, don't add guidelines like that. Stop trolling. Tkorrovi 16 Mar 2004

Stop adding ridiculous headings. Tkorrovi 16 Mar 2004

Tkorrovi's acting unreasonably. (editor's note: presumably ataturk, Paul, or the anon)

Ataturk, stop annoying Ugen64 and accusing me. Matt Stan and Paul, who are the same person, are being master editors of this article. Tkorrovi 16 Mar 2004

Sorry, I had to console a friend of mine. But I'm back to prevent future trolling. Tkorrovi 16 Mar 2004

SUMMARIZED PORTION ENDS HERE