Talk:Artur Phleps/GA1

GA Review
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Reviewer: MisterBee1966 (talk · contribs) 11:13, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

I will start the review shortly MisterBee1966 (talk) 11:13, 6 February 2013 (UTC)


 * GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)


 * 1) It is reasonably well written.
 * a (prose): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
 * 1) It is factually accurate and verifiable.
 * a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources):  c (OR):
 * 1) It is broad in its coverage.
 * a (major aspects): b (focused):
 * 1) It follows the neutral point of view policy.
 * Fair representation without bias:
 * 1) It is stable.
 * No edit wars, etc.:
 * 1) It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.
 * a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass/Fail:
 * 1) It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.
 * a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass/Fail:
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass/Fail:

Comments by MisterBee1966

 * The ribbon from the infobox before the KC award should be removed. The ribbon bar was only used in the Bundeswehr. Phleps did not serve in the Bundeswehr
 * Done, I wasn't aware of the riband.


 * German rank names should be in italics
 * Done.


 * Michael Teich published a book on Phelps in 2010 called General "Artur Phleps" : General der Waffen-SS Artur Phleps ISBN 978-3-9813767-0-8. I think that the article could make good use of this info. There are too many empty spots in his article as it stands now. Example he had a son called Reinhard Phleps, who received the Oak Leaves on his behalf.
 * I wasn't aware of the book, but if it is in German I do not have the language skills to extract anything from it (assuming I could get access to a copy). I have searched available sources in English pretty exhaustively and the only sources on Phleps available on Google Books and Google News are already in the article or are of questionable reliability (ie Axis History Forum and the like).


 * Check image File:Phleps.jpg please. All images uploaded by had to be converted to Non-free media information and use rationale
 * Based on Thomas page 154
 * Iron Cross (1914) 2nd Class on 27 January 1917; Clasp to the Iron Cross (1939) 2nd Class on 10 July 1941; Iron Cross (1939) 1st Class on 26 July 1941
 * German Cross in Gold on 20 June 1944
 * Thanks, I have added these to the body and infobox (as appropriate).
 * He led the following operations Herbstgewitter (23 October – 11 November 1943), Kugelblitz (2 – 19 December 1943), Schneesturm (18 – 31 December 1943), Waldrausch (4 – 18 January 1944), Maibaum (26 April – 5 May 1944), Freie Jagd (18 – 23 June, 26 June – 9 July 1944), and Rübezahl (5 – 22 August 1944)
 * I am familar with all of these except Freie Jagd (they are almost all covered in the 13th SS division article), but thus far on Kugelblitz/Schneesturm has been considered notable in its own right. Do you consider all these operations should be added?


 * References
 * Thomas, Franz (1998). Die Eichenlaubträger 1939–1945 Band 2: L–Z (in German). Osnabrück, Germany: Biblio-Verlag. ISBN 3-7648-2300-3.
 * added as a ref Peacemaker67 (send... over) 03:09, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

I am asking for a second opinion on this article. I have knowledge about, but not access to, German sources about Phleps including the research by the German Armed Forces Military History Research Office. The German Wiki article gives indication what could be obtained from these sources. This includes Phleps' attitude towards the concentration camps, the fact that he had at first joined the German military under his mother's maiden name, that his son received the Oak Leaves on behalf of his father, that Himmler at first thought that he had deserted and wanted him arrested, and especially the war crimes committed by his division. I would like to see these elements addressed before I would promote the article.
 * 2nd opinion


 * Klaus Schmider: Auf Umwegen zum Vernichtungskrieg? Der Partisanenkrieg in Jugoslawien, 1941-1944 in: R.D. Müller, H.E. Volkmann, (Hrsg. im Auftrag des MGFA): Die Wehrmacht: Mythos und Realität, München, Oldenburg 1999, ISBN 3-486-56383-1.


 * I'm very comfortable with a 2O. I will just note here that the article contains pretty much everything one can find online in English, plus some material from works in German such as von Horstenau (and now Thomas, thanks to MB) as well as material not available online from Lepre and Kumm. If this was ACR I would readily accept MB's assessment, but I believe the article has broad coverage and GAN does not require comprehensive coverage. I consider the expectation that material be included from one foreign language source not available online is a bridge too far for GA. Regards, Peacemaker67  (send... over) 21:58, 7 February 2013 (UTC)


 * The WP:GACR specifies that a GA must cover the main aspects of the topic, with a note that the article need not even cover every major fact or detail, ostensibly directing the matter to a debate what constitutes the main aspects of the topic. In my opinion the issues raised regarding the 2O are far from major, let alone main aspects of the topic and should not be an obstacle to promotion. On the other hand, units commanded by Phleps are reported to have committed major war crimes, for instance during Case White and Case Black . I think that those might warrant a mention in the article instead.--Tomobe03 (talk) 00:11, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the steer, Tomobe03. Material added. Peacemaker67 (send... over) 00:59, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the review, MB. Appreciated. Regards, Peacemaker67 (send... over) 00:54, 9 February 2013 (UTC)