Talk:Ash Wednesday/Archive 1

Kneeling Day?
I have been Catholic all my life. I have never heard of this phrase. Can someone explain it to me? I also find no reference to this in any liturgical rites book. Does it need to be deleted?
 * It is a real phrase! It is mostly to do with the divine office and imparticularly Lauds Prime and Sext. Various parts of the liturgy are said kneeling as a sign of penance.
 * ... the penítential days of the liturgical year. These include the ferias of Advent and Lent, most vigils, and Ember Days on which no feast occurs. They are named "kneeling days" because at these times of penance, much of the Office is said kneeling instead of standing, for example, the Preces at all the Hours, the Collect, and so on. Even at High Mass, the congregation is supposed to remain kneeling for parts of the Mass at which they would normally stand, eg. The Collect, the Pater Noster, the Postcommunion. The liturgical colour on a kneeling day should normally be purple.
 * Hope this helps. Oliver Keenan 23:03, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Current Event
Why is there a Current Event tag at the top of the page? It's Ash Wednesday today, but I don't think that merits a "current event" marker. Elliotreed 04:03, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Headline text
If Sundays are not icluded in the Lent Calender, then I assume fasting is out and a good roast is in??? I'm not sure fasting does work, I think you end up irritable and lose concentration/focus. Ok if you have a day off work!! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 204.104.55.243 (talk) 16:47, 13 February 2007 (UTC).

HAPPY ASH WEDNESDAY
HAPPY ASH WEDNESDAY Italic text ''Ash Wednesday,This is my first returning Ash Wednesday since back in my youth. I know is been a while. However, I decided to contribute to the lessons I learned back in my youth. I have been surfing the web in search of history on how we honor “Ash Wednesday.” I am not sure if this is appropriate for this website but It seems to find most of my researches I have done on this website “Wikipedia”, this site has been very informatived, and now I can post to the discussion site. great! Thank you. (Elidiadixon 00:34, 21 February 2007 (UTC)).''

How long should the ashes stay on my forehead?
Just came back from Ash Wednesday services, and wondering how long the ashes are supposed to stay. Is it being a bad catholic to remove them once I return to work or home?

Peace to you all during this lenten season. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.87.238.124 (talk) 19:31, 21 February 2007 (UTC).


 * It's up to you. Some people remove them as soon as they leave church, obeying the dictum of the Gospel Reading of the day: "When you fast, don't look glum or change your appearance, but wash your face" (paraphrasing from memory). Others find it a strong spiritual discipline to leave it on, because it marks you and some people react to it - not always positively. I think both are legitimate, and which one you do is up to you and depends where you are on your spiritual journey. At least, that's MY opinion. Carlo

Answer:

The priest or minister marks the forehead of each participant with black ashes, in the shape of a cross, which the worshipper traditionally retains until washing it off after sundown.

P.S. Happy Ash Wednesday to everyone! FellowWikip e dian 19:37, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Painting
I know that thisis suppose to be an academic article, but being a religious article implies some sensitivity. To that end, I must protest at the seemingly pointless image painting of "Ash Wednesday, after a Carnival". What? Who cares? Carnival? Inappropriate! It shows a man laying low in what seems to be an alleyway. For all I know, the art has nothing to do with Ash Wednesday. If no one objects within 24hrs, I will remove it.Tourskin 06:06, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

I saw the picture just before you removed it. It was very appropriate. In New Orleans, Brazil and other locations, Ash Wednesday marks the end of carnival season. The man in the painting was dressed as if he had been a participant in a carnival parade. Still in those clothes, he was deep in prayer with the light of daylight (maybe the light of God) shining on him. The jar at right in the photo perhaps symbolizes what we need to sustain us during our Lenten journey. I think you should restore the photo.

It looks to me like he's in jail. As though he got arrested for some shenanigans at Carnival and now on Ash Wednesday he has time to "repent" -- BEHIND BARS. It is a very amusing painting and entirely appropriate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.213.57.50 (talk • contribs) 14:09, 6 February 2008

A sentence seems out of place
"The Penitential psalms are read." sentence seems out of place. Should it be moved? I don't know whether this is done by both RC and Anglicans, so I left it alone. Bettyg51 16:48, 22 February 2007 (UTC)BettyG

Is Nordic custom different?
I have a question for anyone that might be able to shed light on where the following tradition came from.

In Iceland Ash Wednesday is celebrated much like Halloween is in the English speaking world - kids go around singing songs in all manner of costumes and beg for candy. This is preceded on Monday and Tuesday by festivities involving the consumption of cream filled buns (Monday is "Bun Day") and large quantities of salted meat (Tuesday is "Bursting Day", as in your gut).

What I'm wondering is whether anyone recognizes one or more elements of these seemingly odd traditions (celebrations and feasting don't seem to coincide with what I'm reading about Ash Wednesday in other cultures). Is it a Nordic thing? Has it died out in Scandinavia? Basically: what gives? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.144.85.130 (talk) 15:00, 1 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Information on such practices is found in the article Carnival, which is the last opportunity for feasting and merrymaking before the Lenten season of fasting, sobriety and self-examination begins. In most cultures Carnival ends on Shrove Tuesday (the day before Ash Wednesday), but from what you write it would seem that in Iceland it continues on Ash Wednesday itself. Continuing the merrymaking on Ash Wednesday does indeed seem to be at odds with the intent of the day. MishaPan (talk) 03:16, 24 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Alright, I read the about Ash Wednesday in Icelandic. There's another holiday in Iceland two days before Ash Wednesday (Bolludagur). Apparently, Bolludagur used to be very similar to what Ash Wednesday in Iceland is like today, but at some point the two holidays seem to have swapped traditions and now Ash Wednesday is celebrated in the old fashion of Bolludagur.

Denominations observing Ash Wednesday
I propose deleting the "Denominations observing Ash Wednesday" section.

The list appears to be just a grab bag, without objective criteria for either inclusion on the list or the use of "some".

For example, I suspect that most Presbyterian and Wesleyan churches in Australia are not "among those that mark Ash Wednesday by holding a service". Why are they on the list and not preceded by "some"? Is it enough that one church in a family of churches anywhere in the world observes Ash Wednesday?

The information about the eastern churches could be retained, as it appears to be more generally applicable.

Sir rupert orangepeel (talk) 01:22, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

What does the priest say?
The last line in the introduction that mentions what the priest says while marking the person with the ashes should be deleted. In the next section it is mentioned that actually there are options for the priest. Caeruleancentaur (talk) 15:31, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Fasting
"It also marks the beginning of the Lenten fast which lasts until Holy Saturday. During this period, Catholics between the ages of 18 and 59 are permitted to consume only one full meal, which may be supplemented by two smaller meals, which together should not equal the full meal."

This seems unbearably harsh to me - I was raised under the impression that adults were to limit themselves to one full meal per day. Perhaps there has been a level of reform that snuck by under my radar. If this is the case, I fully support the decision; the level of liberalism in the modern church was becoming absolutely intolerable. It is certainly nothing, I hope, that restriction of meals to once-per-month could not cure. ChristopherKilbourn 11:31, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
 * XD --Antelucan 00:56, 26 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Not only is it harsh, it is wrong. Fasting (along with abstinence) as described is only required, since Vatican II, on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday. On the other Fridays of Lent abstinence is required, that is, not eating meat or meat products. My credentials for saying this? I have been a priest for 35 years. Caeruleancentaur (talk) 15:36, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, the point he was making is that the way it was worded, it sounded like adults were permitted to eat only one full meal during the entire 6½-week period! —Angr 18:23, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Kneeling while receiving ashes
The introductory section reads in part:

This paste is used by the priest who presides at the service to make the sign of the cross, first upon his own forehead and then on each of those present who kneel before him at the altar rail.

This is not necessarily true. Many churches no longer have altar rails and penitents receive the ashes while standing in front of the altar. Also, if other priests or deacons are present, they apply the ashes to each others foreheads instead of self-applying.Furthermore, other Christian faiths without priest also distribute ashes.

I recommend changing the sentence to:

This paste is used by the celebrant who presides at the service to make the sign of the cross on the foreheads of each of those who approach him.

Wkharrisjr (talk) 20:28, 25 February 2009 (UTC)wkharrisjr 02/25/2009

why a redirect of "imposition of ashes"
i came to wikipedia looking for discussion/explanation of "imposition of ashes." however, there is merely a redirect to "ash wednesday" wherein the phrase "imposition of ashes" never appears. how are they related? is "imposition of ashes" an anglican/episcopalean phrase? never heard the phrase before (i'm 50+; non-catholic/episcopalean; not religious) but this year suddenly noticed banners on several new york city churches (not to say i just never noticed in earlier years). i would expect/understand "application of ashes" but why "imposition"? article fails to educate me.--71.183.238.134 (talk) 18:50, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
 * The article could definitely use a discussion, or at least a mention, of the term. The Imposition of Ashes is the point where the priest applies the ashes in the form of a cross to the churchgoer's forehead. The term is certainly used in Anglican and Episcopal churches, and probably in other denominations as well. Why the word "Imposition" rather than "Application" is used, I don't know; but it sounds more solemn to me, while "application" would sound too technical. —Angr 19:04, 25 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Is there any other context in which imposition of ashes takes on meaning other than Ash Wednesday? patsw (talk) 23:49, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Leap Day
There are two sentences in the first paragraph about Ash Wednesday falling on a leap day (Feb 29):

"Ash Wednesday can fall on Leap Day only during a leap year for which 15 April is Easter Sunday. The next time Ash Wednesday will fall on Leap Day will be in 2096, the first such year since the 1582 adoption of the Gregorian Calendar."

But it doesn't explain the significance of that - is there any significance? DeanHarding 05:45, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

I think that they should be moved down to the bottom of the article after the list of dates for Ash Wednesday if it is indeed relevant information. Personally I think it should just go, it might become relevant in 80 years or so. --82.47.166.66 07:47, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Leap day is actually the 25 of Feb not the 29 FEB since it corresponds to a.d. bis vi Kal. Feb. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.99.219.11 (talk) 23:07, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

End of carnival
There are two references in the article mentioning that Ash Wednesday is the end of Carnival. This is not really true. Carnival ends at midnight on Tuesday (Mardi Gras). The period of fasting and abstinence begins that same midnight, so there is no way that Ash Wednesday can be construed as a part of Carnival. Carnival ends on the last day of Carnival. Of course, the effects of Mardi Gras might be felt on Ash Wednesday :-) Caeruleancentaur (talk) 15:46, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Actually one second after 11:59:59pm Tuesday is 12:00:00 Wednesday (the day changes at that moment) Midnight Tuesday is on second after 11:59:59pm Monday (24hrs before the time you seem to mean) and therefor Carnival ends just before midnight Wednesday —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.99.219.11 (talk) 23:15, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

National No Smoking Day
It's a bit much calling it "utterly irrelevant". The sources establish the relevance: The date was chosen because quitting smoking ties in with giving up luxury for Lent. You mean because it's not specifically Christian? Or what? jnestorius(talk) 00:16, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Repetitions
This article has too many repetitions and half truths. Distinction is not made between the practices of the various faiths. "In most liturgies"; whose? I have some expertise in this area and would be happy to fix the article, if the author would get in touch with me. Caeruleancentaur (talk) 15:58, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
 * It's a wiki. There is no single author to get in touch with you. Just be bold and fix it, remembering to cite your sources. —Angr 18:21, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

If one chose the last moment of any given day on the calendar it could be infintesantly measured as any moment before midnight. In my opinion, for precisions sake it would be best when describing the division of two days to refer to the limiting of one day by the start of the next. i.e. 'The events of "Carnival" could be construed to occur outside the practice of Lenten observances, so long as they are concluded up to the moment of midnight the day preceding the comencement of your Lenten observance...' This is only an exaple sentence that I have attempted to put in context of the disscussion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Timestampd (talk • contribs) 21:38, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Ritual
The standard text for the Catholic Church in the United States for many aspects of liturgy is the The Order of Prayer in the Litugy of the Hours and Celebration of the Eucharist (or the Ordo for short). It is published by the Paulist Press. It lists only two formulas for the ritual What is the source for the third form given in the article (Repent and hear the good news.)? patsw (talk) 00:10, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Turn away from sin and be faithful to the Gospel.
 * Remember, you are dust, and to dust you will return.


 * I just checked the various missiles on my shelf as well as this month's Magnificat and didn't see the third quote anywhere, so I removed it. Carlo (talk) 20:29, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Movable/Moveable Feast/Fast
The average reader would like a little more clarity on this: the day is claimed to be a Movable [sic] Feast (linking to an article called Moveable feast - and also a Moveable Fast, Moveable fast. It's both?  They're the same thing (but two different articles?) and the spelling varies randomly?  I am sure it's all clear to someone who already knows about these things, but it would be encyclopedic to tidy this up and explain it all.KD Tries Again (talk) 04:18, 10 March 2011 (UTC)KD Tries Again
 * Good catch. Feasts and fasts are different things; one involves, well, feasting, and the other involves fasting, i.e. refraining from food.  Ash Wednesday is not and has never been a feast.   Glenfarclas  ( talk ) 06:30, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Ash Wednesday and its place in time relative to the date of Easter
If Ash Wednesday falls forty-four (44) days before Good Friday, how can it fall just forty (40) days before Easter, which is in fact the Sunday after Good Friday?

______ Sundays are not counted as part of Lent. It is actually 40 days excluding Sundays. Ash Wedensday is 46 days before Easter.Carlo 05:30, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

IS there a reason why this day is on a Wednesday? Why can't it be Ash Monday or Tuesday?


 * Because by definition it has to be forty-six days before Easter, which is always on a Sunday. Forty-six days (six weeks plus four days) before any Sunday is always a Wednesday. Angr/ talk 10:19, 18 March 2006 (UTC)


 * To put it more precisely: Lent lasts 40 days, but Sundays are not counted when figuring the 40. Get a calendar off the wall and put a piece of paper over the column of Sundays. Now count 40 days backwards from Easter Day, skipping Sundays. You will find that you arrive at the number 40 on the 7th Wednesday before Easter, which is Ash Wednesday. If we figure in the Sundays as well, we find that Ash Wednesday is 46 days before Easter. MishaPan (talk) 03:06, 24 March 2008 (UTC)


 * The Eastern Orthodox start Great Lent on a Monday. This past Monday was the beginning, and Easter/Pascha is the same day on the Eastern and Western Calendars this year.  Does anybody know how they count to arrive at 40 days?  Does Lent officially end on Good Friday for them or something? Carlo (talk) 04:40, 17 February 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm not Orthodox (anyone with more knowledge are free to correct/add information), but this is how I've understood it: The Orthodox/Eastern fast for Lent is indeed 40 days. However, there are two differences between the Eastern and Western practice: (1) Sundays are always included in the counting; (2) Lent ends on the Friday before Good Friday. The day after this Friday--i.e. the day before Palm Sunday--is Lazarus Saturday in the Orthodox church, when this church celebrates the resurrection of Lazarus of Bethany. However, Holy week is still a season of fasting--although Lent officially ends on Friday night (the eve of Lazarus Saturday). AxelWN (talk) 15:15, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

What happens during leap years when an extra day is added? wouldn't that move it off of Wednesday then? if Easter is early enough to put it in Februrary —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.99.219.11 (talk) 22:07, 12 March 2009 (UTC)


 * No--nothing happens with Ash Wednesday during leap years; weekdays aren't affected by leap years--the week just goes on, including the 29 February as though nothing has happened. (29 February is always a normal week day, you know. ;)) So this doesn't make a difference: 29 February is included in the 46 days of fasting. As the article says, Ash Wednesday has never been on 29 February and won't be so until 2096. However, there's one factor with Ash Wednesdays and leap years. Next year (2012), Easter Sunday will be on 8 April, as it was in 2007. However, since it's a leap year, Ash Wednesday will take place on 22 February, rather than the 21st as it did in 2007. Good question though. AxelWN (talk) 15:15, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

Canonical gospels versus Synoptic Gospels
The main entry says, "According to the canonical gospels of Matthew, Mark and Luke ..." That should be changed to say, "According to the Synoptic Gospels of Matthew, Mark and Luke ..." Every book in the Bible is canonical. However, the Gospel of John is the one which is not "Synoptic." The other three Gospels, Matthew, Mark and Luke, when viewed collectively, as they are in the main entry for Ash Wednesday, are Synoptic Gospels, not merely 'canonical gospels.' — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.7.178.186 (talk) 19:49, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 23 February 2012
Ash Wednesday begins 40 days of Easter, not 46

76.19.120.142 (talk) 00:48, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
 * ❌ You are confusing the 40 days of Lent with how long before Easter Sunday Ash Wednesday occurs, which skips counting the 6 Sundays in between. Dru of Id (talk) 01:47, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

History of observance? History of the imposition of ashes?
When did these things start? How has the observance and practice changed throughout history? 99.22.228.93 (talk) 22:04, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Western Rite Orthodox
Ash Wednesday is also celebrated by Western Rite Orthodox Christians. I am a member of a western rite parish under the Antiochian Archdiocese (http://www.antiochian.org/) and we will be celebrating Ash Wednesday and the start of Holy Lent tomorrow. It would be nice if someone included this in the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.142.171.23 (talk) 22:33, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

Disambugation
Why do you mention the Movies and the National Non smoking day in ireland in this article??? Surely thats what the disambiguation kink at the top of the page is....but you also mention it in this specific article to the Church cermony? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.58.136.114 (talk) 17:05, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

"Holidays, observances, and celebrations in the United States"
Why is this template included in this article? This festival/observance is far wider reaching than just the US. -- Connelly90 09:22, 5 March 2014 (UTC)


 * I dislike that template as it includes non-official festivals, like most religious ones. It's awfully arbitrary and US-centric The Almightey Drill (talk) 14:24, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

ashes from previous year's palms
Is this still the practice in the United States? It is unlikely, since 1). palm fronds distributed to the worshippers are kept by them; 2). imposition ashes, which are sold as palm ashes, are generally purchased from religious supply houses, e.g., Concordia Supply; 3). It is extremely doubtful that every church sends its leftover palms to such a place, who burns them and returns them to the church; 4). thus the palms used to make the ashes are not likely the palms used for palm Sunday. Frack Wells (talk) 14:20, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

Ambrosian Rite Catholics have no Ash Wednesday
If Catholics observe Ash Wednesday, how come Ambrosian Rite Catholics don't? So, don't they burn palms? Are their foreheads not marked with cross of ashes? Please verify my questions to be true. Santiago Claudio (talk) 13:26, 7 June 2014 (UTC)
 * I've indicated in the article that what it says of Catholics does not apply to Eastern Catholics or to Catholics who follow the Ambrosian liturgical rite. Since Ambrosian-Rite Catholics do have an ashes ceremony, though not on Ash Wednesday, we can presume they do burn Palm Sunday branches.  Their foreheads are not marked with a cross, since they follow the same custom as in the rest of Italy and receive ashes sprinkled on their heads.  Esoglou (talk) 17:58, 7 June 2014 (UTC)
 * I've seen since in an old source that the Ambrosian did not have an ashes ceremony at that time. But they do now.  Esoglou (talk) 20:01, 7 June 2014 (UTC)
 * User:Esoglou, I've put your new paragraph within a note. Otherwise, I think it would be distracting in the lede. Furthermore, I've added the adjective Roman within the "Ashes" sentence in view of your note and User:Santiago Claudio's comments. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:03, 7 June 2014 (UTC)
 * In Wikipedia, "Catholic Church" is treated as the normal name. I opposed this decision rather too strenuously, but I accept it.
 * Ashes are distributed not only in Roman Rite celebrations but also, as said, in celebrations of the Ambrosian Rite, and indeed certainly also in celebrations of the Mozarabic Rite and presumably of all Latin liturgical rites, and even in two Eastern Catholic Churches. What I said earlier here needs therefore to be modified, as does the edit I made in the article.  Statements about about how ashes are distributed in the Catholic Church do not need to be accompanied each time with a reminder that the ceremony, though universal in the Latin Church (not limited to celebrations of the Roman Rite), is unknown in most, though not all, of the Eastern Catholic Churches and is not necessarily held on Wednesday.  Esoglou (talk) 08:04, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

Edits
I just removed removed a quote that was cherry picked from the Ashes to Go website. No single secondary media source out of the several dozen covering this programme mentions the "joke" comment or that this programme was primarily for LGBT people; as such this should not be included per WP:DUE and WP:PRIMARY. The same applies for the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence--their participation in Ashes to Go has not been noted in any single secondary source and furthermore they are a small group, not even a Christian denomination. It should be noted that many parishes of The United Methodist Church, which upholds the traditional Judeo-Christian view on homosexuality (Reference), participate in Ashes to Go. What secondary sources (such as USA Today) have published include the main point that Ashes to Go serves to "bring Ash Wednesday to the streets" and that it is "act of evangelism" for non-Christians receiving them. This has appropriately been included in the article, as it has been supported by several secondary sources. I commend User:Esoglou for his improvements to this article. However, in this case I disagree and strongly object to the inclusion of those statements in the article, which seem to politicize this topic (although I acknowledge that was probably not the intention). As such, I will revert if they are reintroduced into the article. I hope you can see where I am coming from and I appreciate your understanding. However, if you still disagree, I suppose that we could consult WP:THIRD. As a compromise, I have left User:Esoglou's other sentences intact, including "However, in 2014, only one church outside the United States was reported as participating, while in the United States itself 34 states and the District of Columbia had at least one church taking part. Most of these churches (parishes) were Episcopal, but there were also several Methodist churches, as well as fewer Presbyterian and Independent Catholic Churches." I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 02:52, 9 September 2014 (UTC)
 * No problem. Will you permit the addition of "some", which I have just done?  I was afraid you might be annoyed if i added "a few" with regard to this still recent initiative that is not widespread even in the United States.  Until and unless the movement promoting it has more success, we can't present it as on a par with the established practices of Christian churches.  Esoglou (talk) 07:43, 9 September 2014 (UTC)
 * User:Esoglou, yes, your addition of "some" makes the section more accurate and I appreciate that addition. Thanks so much for your understanding! I genuinely hope you have a great day! God Bless You, AnupamTalk 14:01, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

40 weekdays and 6 sundays = 46 days?
Maybe i am reading the article wrongly but i find the opening wording rather confusing, it says..

"It occurs 46 days (40 weekdays plus 6 Sundays) before Easter and can fall as early as 4 February or as late as 10 March."

What exactly does that mean? What happens to the saturdays? Is that 40 days (Monday-Saturday) + 6 Sundays which in total equals 46. If so why is a saturday called a weekday. If that is not the case and its infact 40 weekdays + 6 days + saturdays which do not get included, could this not be worded clearer?

I honestly have no idea what the situation is with the timing of this event, but i read this opening sentence and it made no sense to me. What happens with the Saturdays and how is that counted or not counted in these 40 weekdays / 46 days before Easter? Clarification would be helpful thanks, as im sure im not the only one who reads it and gets confused. ConfusedReader2014 (talk) 12:08, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
 * ConfusedReader2014 understands "weekday" differently from my understanding of the word. I have therefore disambiguated.  Esoglou (talk) 13:54, 13 February 2015 (UTC)


 * To my understandings, Sundays are no fasting days, - would that help? Weekdays are the 6 others, including Saturdays. When Lent was introduced, they worked 6 days ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:03, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
 * "Weekdays" always include the Saturday, because "weekday" means "not Sunday". (If you exclude the Saturday too, the phrase is "(usual) working days", at least around here.--131.159.0.47 (talk) 20:17, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

Lenten Fast
Fasting only occurs on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday, NOT every day of Lent.
 * 1. It is (rather defensible) colloquial speech to call any bodily act of mortification a fast.
 * 2. Fasting in its technical sense (one meal, etc.) was obligatory (though with exceptions for pretty much anyone who needed them) in the Latin Catholic Church up to the Apostolic Constitution "Paenitemini". Thus under the CIC of 1917, contrary to some assumptions, you could eat both meat and sweets, but only once a day (apart from the collations). --131.159.0.47 (talk) 20:25, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

-- That is a specifically Roman Catholic practice, as they make a distinction between "fasting" and "abstinence."


 * So does Anglicanism Carolynparrishfan 13:34, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

- ''' HAPPY ASH WEDNESDAY ON MARCH 1, 2006. ''' It's 13:44 on Wed Feb 15, 2006 in Solano,Nueva Vizcaya,Philippines. My site is at http://www.michaelmanalolazo.webitsmart.co.uk Just Surfing. Thanks. --- "Happy Ash Wednesday"? THERE'S an oxymoron if I ever heard one. :) -

Fasting and abstinence don't necessarily mean you shold be sad :) Cecia -- Have a solemn and dignified Ash Wednesday, brothers.

Good morning, from a brother in Christ in San Diego, CA, USA. May your Ash Wednesday bring you quiet reflection and understanding of the holy mysteries. May it help prepare you for the joy of Easter. --Sr.Wombat 14:06, 01 March 2006 (UTC) --- According to the US Council of Bishops, fasting is required on Ash Wednesday and Good friday, and encouraged on other days. --Alpharigel 03:15, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

"Ashes to Go" photo caption
That photo caption talks about an "Anglican" priest in Connecticut, but in the U.S. they are normally known as "Episcopal" priests. We separated from the Anglican Church (and its designation) after the U.S. revolution, and US Episcopal priests do not swear allegiance to the British monarch.

There is a recent separatist "North American Anglican" church in the U.S. that withdrew from the mainstream U.S. Episcopal Church for reasons of social values (notably over the ordination of women and gay priests). To describe a priest in the U.S. as "Anglican" suggests he is part of this movement. That's highly unlikely in a place like Connecticut.BillDeeUS (talk) 21:33, 1 March 2017 (UTC)


 * ✅ Done. I've changed "Anglican" to "Episcopalian". I hope this helps. AnupamTalk 21:48, 1 March 2017 (UTC)

Pagan origin?
"However, some Adventists who do not celebrate Ash Wednesday say that the practice of imposition of ashes is not consistent with Scripture and is of pagan origin."

What follows doesn't support this claim. What follows supports an entirely different claim -- that the ashes may be worn hypocritically or ostentatiously. refers to Jewish hypocrites.

Either the text should either have support for the claim, or the claim should be revised to match the supporting statement. patsw (talk) 23:47, 8 March 2009 (UTC)


 * The question is not whether it is pagan in origin, but whether Adventists and other Protestants believe that to be so. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.196.208.133 (talk) 17:25, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

There's a strong connection with Norse mythology: "And strange as it may seem, one Wednesday, or Odin's day, is specially devoted to him, under the name of 'Ash Wednesday'...". From the same source, Odin's Ash tree is the world tree Yggdrasil. And "The Norse practice of Ash Wednesday goes back several hundred years earlier, when it was done to celebrate the deeds of Sigurd, the hero of the Volsung Saga, a character perhaps better known as Siegfried from the Ring of the Nibelung." Drf5n (talk) 14:51, 9 March 2011 (UTC)


 * The blog that you quoted and linked to has this in the comments by the author of said blog: "I wrote this blog post several years ago, based on things I remembered from college several years before that. And, to be frank, at times, I’ve wondered if that history professor (I was a history major in college) was having a lark."
 * Just because someone said it somewhere in cyberspace doesn't make it a source. Carlo (talk) 20:26, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Ha! You beat me to it. Let's not put any of that in there as long as we don't have the sources to it. I've asked Allyn what that professor's sources could have been. Trigaranus (talk) 00:05, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Observing churches
It's overly detailed to enumerate the potentially endless list of that celebrate Ash Wednesday. Instead, we should change this section to discuss which observe it. This discussion is now mainly found in the lead; it should be moved here to this section and only summarized there. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 06:32, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Done. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 04:38, 10 April 2019 (UTC)