Talk:Asian pride/Archive 1

Questionable POV
The quality and tone of this article does not appear up to Wikipedia standards. How does one go about to create the "POV is in dispute" and "quality etc" heading at the top?

"Usually they promote an equality among all races concept that is lacking in whitewashed Asian youth who believes whites are above all." This line seems like it was written by some petty limited-frame-of-reference juvenile.

I trimmed the site of unsubstantiated claims, opinions, and blanket generalizations. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 169.232.65.228 (talk • contribs) 02:25, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Song
I have the URLs and videos and mp3s of the song on my hard drive. I put the lyrics up, profane as they are. If someone disagrees with them, they better talk on the talk page. DyslexicEditor 01:25, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

Someone removed it and I put it back, but did not give a reason on this page. Just say a reason and I will be happy. DyslexicEditor 23:29, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Unrelated, but I removed the section that reads "The rap song titled 'Got Beef?' is a controversial song by Vietnamese-Canadian rapper Chuckie Akenz." There's no explanation given as to how it's directly related to the "Asian Pride" slogan. There are well over 3.6 billion Asians in the world. We can't mention every single work by an Asian artist here, no matter how interesting. Anirvan 07:04, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

!!!!!
Why is Korean Pride redirected to here? It has really nothing to do with the entire Asia. Some people only have pride for Korea, not Japan nor China. I am sorry if I was viewed as a racist. Polleo 12:44, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
 * If you have enough reliable sources to create an article on Korean pride, go for it. If there are only a few, you can start a section here about distinctive features of Korean pride. If you disagree with the redirect, nominate its deletion at WP:RFD. –Pomte 06:41, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Actually not all of Asian Pride
Mongoloid or Oriental? What's the best name to call what I describe here. DyslexicEditor 01:32, 20 January 2006 (UTC)


 * The best name for the people described here are Asian or Asian American. Southeast Asian American and East Asian American could also be used but since Asian Americans who espouse Asian pride do not reference a single regions, all Asian or Asian American people are assumed to be included.--Dark Tichondrias 10:26, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Does the passage on "Oriental Pride?" even belong in this article? It sounds like something that should be covered under "Asian American" or "Asian" to debate the term Oriental vs. Asian. This entry is supposed to be about an Asian Pride movement, which is never referred to as Oriental Pride. Furthermore, the tone of that passage is not acceptable. Val ntine 21:14, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, this is the dumbest article I have ever seen
Or at least the beginning paragraph is. I was expecting to see an article about the flash video, but when I saw this, and read it, it just sounded incredibly stupid. At least rewrite it.

7FlushSetzer 21:00, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Irony
The usage of Chữ Quốc Ngữ is ironic, given its Western origins. I propose having a Chữ Nôm version directly above it. 71.247.87.5 01:46, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * The purpose of the language box seems unclear. As far as I can tell, the box is being used to translate "Asian pride" into its respective languages. However, it appears that editors are contributing their own translations rather than citing actual usage -- if there is even any usage. In regards to this proposal, because "Asian pride" is not a term that would have been used in Chữ Nôm, it would be inappropriate to insert it into the unclear language box. -- Scottie_theNerd  11:37, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

東方の自尊 = Japanese term for Asian pride?
What the hell is "東方の自尊"? There isn't such a ridiculous term in Japanese language. Google search result for "東方の自尊" is practically zero (other than self-references to this article). The Japanese people don't even use "東方" for Asia like the Chinese or the Koreans or whatever other Asian nations do. ("東方" just means eastern direction.) Also "自尊" on its own is rarely used for "Pride." (It usually writes with "心," "自尊心," or straight in katakana, "プライド.") --211.18.36.172 05:35, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Granted, this term would sound exotic and more the meaning of "Eastern Pride" when read in Japanese. However, the Romaji listed, which comes from a Katakana approximation/transliteration of the English words is even farther off the mark. It's trying to say "Asian no Pride" (ironically, the possessive article is pronounced "no" in Japanese, and might lead a novice into thinking it's "Asians (have) no pride", which is clearly not the intent. I think the Katakana should be removed, and the Romaji should reflect the phrase in real Japanese words (not transliterations of English).

Note that 自尊 would be read more as "self-respect" in Japanese, Chinese, and Korean. But this is probably the best word to use, as other words with a pride meaning, also carry an essence of arrogance. Let's not have this mean "Asian Arrogance" but rather "Asian Self-Respect". This is more Confucian, though perhaps not completely Buddhist or Taoist (which teach one to dismiss oneself, or achieve a state of "no self"). Arrogance has no place in any of these philosophies or religions except as a warning of pitfalls on the road to good Karma, etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.11.162.215 (talk) 05:55, 12 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I would much rather see sources of actual usage (if any) rather than user-made translations or transliterations. -- Scottie_theNerd  08:39, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Changed th Heading
I edited the heading. It now says "...people of Asian descent..." instead of "...Asian people..."- DNArikawa —Preceding unsigned comment added by DNArikawa (talk • contribs) 12:03, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

NPOV, OR, references
The entire article has no references. I must assume it is original research. If there are no reliable sources about Asian pride, then delete the article.

You'd better give the same treatment to White Pride, Black Pride, etc. Otherwise, you'd be accused of racism. =) 71.247.87.5 01:43, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Blatant POV: "In some people, the concept of Asian pride causes a resentful feeling of non-Asian cultures. These people are intolerant of non-Asian cultures." I have tagged the article for biased point of view, original research, and lack of references.

Blatant unsourced statement: "Its current usage originated on the streets in the 1990s in Los Angeles and has spread to the extent that most Asian Americans have heard of it, mostly the younger ones."

Blatant OR: "The philosophy of Asian Pride often leads to tensions and conflicts when aspects relating to Asians are disrespected, causing the disrespected Asian to react. It is possible to have Asian pride and not react to disrespect." Quelqu&#39;un 05:42, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

This is the worst wiki entry I have ever read. I was reading about Korean Nationalism and I got redirected to this shabby article. It needs to be deleted or completely rewritten. I don't even understand what the author is trying to convey and it seems more like a confused 15 year olds ramblings than something worthy of reference on Wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 163.152.74.93 (talk) 16:15, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Stop complaining about no references if you are just going to remove them. I spent hours adding references to this page for translations and other citations. Within weeks, someone removed all of them. What gives? There are a few of us trying to make this an equitable page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.212.173.197 (talk • contribs) 12:22, December 24, 2007

Look, almost all of the translations into Chinese, Korean, etc. came from a website that specializes in translation and Asian calligraphy. If you are going to keep removing the references, then remove the whole translations too. The nofollow tags make it useless to the site owner anyway (for whom I doubt many if any people are actually buying Asian Pride calligraphy wall scrolls). If you have a better source, cite it. If you've found a better or different translation, add it and cite it. Give credit where credit is due, and stop vandalizing (this page sucks enough as it is).75.33.205.84 (talk) 05:51, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

From user talk space...
From User talk:I do not exist: 


 * I think this subject is pretty narrow, so info is fairly limited. When there are no non-commercial websites that have the info that needs to be cited, shouldn't we cite whatever is available (if it seems to be legit).


 * So far, nobody has disputed the Simplified Chinese, Traditional Chinese, Mandarin Romanization, Cantonese Romanization, Korean Hangul and Korean Hanja translations. The disputed ones (As I have watched this page for a while) were from other sources, or original content from whomever edited the page (speaking of the Japanese Romaji, Japanese Katakana and Vietnamese disasters that were added).


 * I think the page is poorly-written and much of the content is incoherent. It seems that is what should really be tackled before refining the translation citations.


 * Please at least replace the current citations/links to http://www.orientaloutpost.com/asian_pride.php to some website or other source that seems more appropriate.


 * I might be biased to that website because they helped me avoid a terrible Asian symbol tattoo mistake that I was about to make, with no charge. But I also looked elsewhere and nothing else seemed as legit.


 * 75.33.205.84 (talk) 06:17, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

From User talk:75.33.205.84: 


 * Hi, thanks for your comment on my talk page. I'm sorry I reverted your edits. The problem with these sites is that we can't know how reliable they are, which is why we have our policy on reliable sources. This site is out to sell you stuff, and we cannot know how reliable their translations are. Even if Oriental Outpost "worked on [the translation] for a long time" and "[t]he effort involved both Chinese and Japanese translators and lengthly discussions", it doesn't mean the result is in any way accurate, since their motive in translating the phrase was to sell scrolls with the phrase on them, not to produce an accurate translation (or to document a phrase that people actually use). In short, it appears that orientaloutpost.com coined the phrase "東方自尊", possibly with the help of professional translators, which makes it a neologism that shouldn't appear on Wikipedia at all. And that solves the problem: we don't need a cite for the "translations", we can remove them altogether. Originally, after all, "Asian pride" is an American expression. :-) - ∅  ( ∅ ), 09:39, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm going to be WP:BOLD and remove the infobox, as per my reasoning above. - ∅  ( ∅ ), 09:47, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Fair enough. This page is a disaster anyway. I feel embarrassed just reading it.

By the way, you can search for "東方自尊" or "东方自尊" on the web, and there are plenty of people and entities using it. I just don't want to cite a MySpace, YouTube, or personal web page. My assumption is that Oriental Outpost just made sure the translation was correct before posting it on their website for all to see. They are putting their professional reputation on the line with that display (unlike a personal web page that might be full of errors and junk that is cut and pasted from other places with nothing to lose).

Though perhaps off subject: As far as citing commercial sites, what is the rule? I've seen Wikipedia entries that cite Booze Allen Hamilton (the big consulting firm, who is clearly a commercial entity, trying to sell services). I don't know how to draw the line (not that I have any plans to become an editor of Wikipedia). 75.33.205.84 (talk) 17:06, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

partial bias
It's unfortunate, but there's a lot of hatred in this article I believe. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.51.23.33 (talk) 20:16, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Rubbish
Quote: "Another empire is Imperial Japan, the symbols of which are widespread in modern culture and franchises, especially the Rising Sun Flag, one of the main symbols of Asian, specifically Japanese, pride."

Don't know where you're from, but the Chinese Australians here in Canberra burn those flags, and bash anyone wearing one on a T-shirt. That flag symbolizes the extermination of our grandfathers, and so I'd doubt Overseas Chinese look up to Japanese Imperialism. Additionally, regarding the Mongol Empire, only those who have not been conquered BY the Mongols would think so. It's just like saying the Jews look up to Hitler. Absolute nonsense. It appears that this article was written by young children, who have no idea of their own heritage, due to assimilation, and are merely bandwagon jumping. --  李博杰   | —Talk contribs 03:03, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The Japanese Empire bit is uncited original research which should be removed from the article.Dark Tea &#169;  04:57, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

This article is ridiculous
Read the first paragraph. It sounds like someone's generalizations and opinions.

"as Asian nations have had long conflicts with each other, examples are the old Japanese and Chinese religious beliefs of their individual superiority."

Sounds like a fifth grader's report if you ask me.

"In contrast, Asian empires are prominent and are proudly remembered by adherents to Asian Pride. An example is the Mongol Empire, which was one of the largest empires in history, occupying most of Asia. Another empire is Imperial Japan, the symbols of which are widespread in modern culture and franchises, especially the Rising Sun Flag, one of the main symbols of Asian, specifically Japanese, pride. Communist China has been controversially referred to being an empire. These empires of Mongolia, Imperial Japan, and Communist China have a general negative impression, even among adherents to Asian pride, as they have committed numerous crimes against the peoples and cultures of other Asian nations. Bu there were numerous Chinese empires already and Communist China does not have a hereditary monarch or even a Dictator who rules for life, only a one party State."

What? Sources please?

I nominate this article for deletion. Duct tape tricorn (talk) 22:59, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

This article is really stupid. The whole "Asian pride" thing could make a legitimate article, but this sounds like two dumb kids got bored in a comp sci class. --98.201.58.125 (talk) 04:27, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Examples?
Is the section "examples of Asians with pride" really necessary? You can't really prove that an Asian has pride, and it just feels more like a list of Asians popular in Western media. 64.131.142.237 (talk) 01:46, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Largely Opionion Based
I think there's an anti-Japanese bias in the section about criticisms of Asian Pride. I've edited the section to make my dispute clear but I don't see why Japanese attitudes get's a section while Chinese and Korean attitudes about the rest of Asia, which are at least equally strong, do not.

In general I think that this article is poorly written, but don't think it should be deleted simply because there is such a thing as Asian Pride. Probably large parts of it could be cropped off to make it better (the list of "Asian's with Pride" should really be gone...


 * For christ sakes, why doesn't anyone on this page sign their posts? Am I editing a 12-year-old-kid-magnet right now? One would assume you are competent in using Wiki websites before editing, yet I would think otherwise... Place your sections at the END, and tell us who you are. --  李博杰   | —Talk contribs 00:43, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

AFD
To state the obvious, I decided to re-nominate this whole mess for deletion. I don't really trust my own judgement anymore in nominating articles for deletion, so feel free to close it as a speedy keep if this was not the right thing to do. Thanks. - ∅  ( ∅ ), 10:30, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

The article as it stands is an incoherent mess, and while I wouldn't go so far as to advocate that it be deleted, it's clearly in need of a substantial rewrite. 72.192.203.13 (talk) 04:54, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Gerd Langguth's "Dawn of the 'Pacific' Century?"
This article is used as one of the main sources for most of the entry, but it is about Asian countries' relations with the West and the Asian Values debate of the 1990s, and doesn't even mention Asian American identity, which is what most of this article seems to be about. Could someone find a better source? 38.100.16.194 (talk) 19:27, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

CENTRAL ASIANS
Is there anything on Central Asians? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.95.112.60 (talk • contribs) 18:29, September 5, 2006


 * According to the article:


 * "Asian pride seeks to cultivate the Hindu, Taoist, Confucist, Buddhist thought of Asian culture and repudiate the Jewish, Christian, and Islamic foreign thought."


 * Therefore, within the viewpoint of this ideology, Asians of any kind that are Muslim cannot be considered as "Asian". This would therefore exclude West Asians, Central Asians, South Asians who are Muslim(Pakistanis, Indian Muslims, folks from Bangladesh) and most Malaysians and Indonesians, as well as the Chinese Hui people.


 * So, to answer your question, Central Asians need not apply. Padishah5000 20:32, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

-- The term "Asian," here, is not being used to refer to anyone from the large continent of Asia. Rather, it is being used primarily to target East and Southeast Asians, particularly those with ancestry from of the Sinosphere. Onixz100 (talk) 07:32, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Can Someone Verify the "85% of world landmass"?
Despite the fact that this whole entire article is seemingly made up of unverifiable claims and individual research, can someone do some fact checking on the statement that says Europeans "owned" 85% of the world's land mass at the peak of European colonialism? If there is no definitive percentage, the article can be reworded to accommodate the lack of findings. If there is a different verifiable percentage found, the number should be changed to accurately represent the newly found facts. Onixz100 (talk) 07:40, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

External links modified
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Merger discussion
I am of the opinion given the closeness of the subject matters that Got Rice? should be merged into this article, as Got Rice is nearly a Orphan page and it falls within the subject scope of this article, specifically the Hip Hop Culture section.--RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 18:28, 29 April 2017 (UTC)
 * ✅ Klbrain (talk) 20:28, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

Edit warring 15 January 2021
You have violated the three-revert-rule by repeatedly re-adding your changes to the article without consensus.. Please follow WP:BRD and get consensus on this talk page before re-implementing your changes. LarryMac653, the same goes for you. —  The Only Zac  (talk) 06:08, 16 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The page was protected back in September for the same edits, albeit with no source cited. I have protected the article again. It is abundantly clear that the burden is on the editor(s) attempting to add the material to get consensus before adding it. —C.Fred (talk) 19:29, 16 January 2021 (UTC)