Talk:Asparuh of Bulgaria

Old talk
I reverted the last edit:
 * At this point in history, 681 AD, there were many peoples, but only three officially recognized, independent, states in all of Europe: The West Roman Empire, The East Roman Empire and Bulgaria.

Reasons: -- Sandius 10:32, 24 May 2005 (UTC)
 * 1) In the mentioned era, there were no states and diplomatic relations in the current meaning of these words. Therefore, it is meaningless to talk about "official recognition", which certainly is a modern term and also a modern diplomatic practice.
 * 2) The Western Roman Empire collapsed in 476 and therefore couldn't exist in 681.

This is an incorrect wording though the fact is hard to be denied: At that time there were only tribal petty kingdoms, while Bulgaria was created as a nation-state. The recognition (though not in modern sense) is claimed as Asparukh's son, Tervel, was given the title Caesar (кесар/kessar in Bulgarian) by Justinian II as early as 704/5. -- Goldie (tell me) 02:32, 28 November 2005 (UTC)


 * I see. Thanks for the explanation. -- Sandius 12:08, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
 * What makes the Frankish Kingdom(s) less "officially recognized" than the Bulgarian state in the Early Middle Ages (in fact one could argue the reverse)? What makes it (including all of Gaul and most of Germany) any more of a "petty kingdom" than Asparukh's Bulgaria, which was largely constrained by the Danubian plain?  Such criteria are highly subjective, not to mention inaccurate.  In the current edit I have tried to remove speculative assertions and stick to the facts.  Asparukh's career is interesting and impressive enough as it is, without having to incorporate modern romantic notions or proto-nationalism.  Best, Imladjov 19:50, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Goldie, there is only one way to translate the title Caesar in Bulgarian and that is "кесар". Note that it is written in Cyrillic and not in Latin. We Bulgarians only use Cyrillic though several times in our history it has been proposed that we replace it with Latin. Please be aware that the usage of the latter alphabet, when designating Bulgarian spelling, could be easily understood, by the majority of Bulgarians, as an attempt at insulting our national identity and culture. In case you have written "kessar" merely in order to introduce non-Bulgarian speakers with the correct pronunciation, I beg you to put it parentheses -> "...Caesar (Bulgarian: кесар /ke'sar/) by...". Markov 09:44, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

The "severi" link seems to point to something unrelated. Can anybody fix it?

Northern territories
When establishing his kingdom on the Balkans, Asparoukh was operating from Dobroudja and had control over parts of (if not the whole of) Bessarabia. I don't see this shown on any maps. Does anyone know how much he controlled of these northern territories and for how long? Furthermore, his uncle Kii was supposedly ruling that whole region until the Ukraine. I am not sure where this claim stems from or how probable it is. Still, it indicates that these territories were under the rule of the Dulo klan and Asparoukh may have simply migrated further East to lands that already belonged to him.

Apud?
What does mean (apud Moscow)? There is no word "apud" in English dictionaries.. Is it typo? Is there a reason to use latin word?
 * apud = near, next to, beside, alongside, adjacent to Căluşaru&#39; (talk) 17:16, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

Grave of Asparuh
The grave of asparuh has been already found! You can refer to information and references given in Russian article of wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.230.12.65 (talk) 11:31, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Number of Asparuh's Bulgars
Please, provide a reliable scientific University reference, that the number of Asparuh's horde was hundreds of thousands people. The sources cited ther show around 30,000. Jingby (talk) 10:45, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Please IP, stop deleting unbiased academic sources. Stop pushing here unreliable POV-numbers of hundreds of thousands Nomads, had invided Byzantine Empire. Thank you. Jingiby (talk)

 SilkTork  ✔Tea time  23:18, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

Please, provide a reliable scientific reference, that the number of Asparuh's horde was hundreds of thousands people. The sources cited ther show around 30,000 up to 50 000. Thank you! Jingiby (talk) 10:49, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Semi-protection
This article has been semi-protected. Semi-protection prevents edits from unregistered users (IP addresses), as well as edits from any account that is not autoconfirmed (is at least four days old and has at least ten edits to Wikipedia) or confirmed. Such users can request edits to this article by proposing them on this talk page, using the template if necessary to gain attention. New users may also request the confirmed user right by visiting Requests for permissions.  SilkTork  ✔Tea time  17:06, 8 May 2015 (UTC)


 * There have been significant changes to the article, which have been reverted, then restored, then reverted again. This articles has had prior history of inappropriate IP edits. The article is now protected against all IP edits for the time being. It is preferred that such protection should only be in place for a short while, then can be lifted to allow positive edits to be made by good faith IP editors. However, sometimes an article needs to be continually protected. If people have views on should this article continue to be protected, or should have the protection lifted in a few days, please say so.  SilkTork  ✔Tea time  17:13, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

The real title of the Bulgarian rulers was княз (knyaz). Not "han" or similar. There is no any "han"-theory evident by now.
http://www.zora-news.com/index.php?view=article&id=4764:kakvaebilavladetelskata&format=pdf „КАКВА Е ВЛАДЕТЕЛСКАТА ТИТЛА НА КУБРАТ ? - Автор: Доц. Иван ИВАНОВ” --212.5.158.208 (talk) 15:56, 10 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Whae we see is, that there is NO TALKS over the subject!? So, all the guys agree for the real title of Ispor Rex (Asparuh)? - Good!

Is so, please, remove all blocking ban, imposed in connection with the old Bulgarian Ruler's titles! Tanks! --212.5.158.188 (talk) 07:24, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120622130033/http://oldru.narod.ru:80/biblio/kb_imp.htm to http://oldru.narod.ru/biblio/kb_imp.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060521094823/http://www.bulgaria.com:80/history/rulers/asparoukh.html to http://www.bulgaria.com/history/rulers/asparoukh.html
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