Talk:Assassination of William McKinley/Archive 1

Finished
Page is now finished. Vidor (talk) 16:50, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Article or Screenplay?
Some clean up may be in order as the tone of the article seems to be in the form of a narrative than an dry examination of the facts. 168.244.164.254 (talk) 18:53, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

Pistol or revolver
Was the weapon used a pistol or a revolver? The caption on the first picture says a revolver is being concealed, where as the section on the assassin states a pistol was used. Which was it? Whippen (talk) 12:07, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

From what I know of a Revolver is a pistol.(Mr. Smart Guy) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.3.8.129 (talk) 03:14, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I wasn't aware it was filmed. I know his 1901 inauguration was filmed, but I'm not sure about his murder. --Eman91

It says that an Iver Johnson revolver was used and is on display. If you look it says so on the Iver Johnson page.-Anonymous —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.130.91.231 (talk • contribs)

Assassination filmed?
According to Vincent Bugliosi, in his "Reclaiming History" on JFK's assassination, Kennedy's assassination was not the first assassination of an American president to be captured on film while being assassinated, McKinley was. In fact, he says there are TWO films which captured the sequence. Is anyone aware of these films? Canada Jack (talk) 17:56, 15 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Bugliosi's book mentions in a footnote that there were two films which captured the assassination, and these were used to determine whether McKinley's killer had any accomplices in the crime. He cites a source, but I don't have the book immediately at hand. Canada Jack (talk) 15:10, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Indira Gandhi assassination which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RM bot 06:46, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Any one confirm that Father Zeglen offered bulletproof vest to McKinley and Teddy Roosevelt?
According to a Polish historian, Casimir Zeglen, inventor of bulletproof vest, offered vest to McKinley two weeks before McKinley's assassination but was turned down by McKinley's personal secretary (who was supposedly in charge of security). This is the Youtube video with English subtitles

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lo8Ww1NdoyY

And one vest was also offered to Teddy Roosevelt, according to the same historian.

--Kschang77 (talk) 08:39, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I've not seen that. It may be true, but it clearly hasn't made the history books.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:04, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

FAC quibbles
As I didn't peer review this article, I am listing a few points here which I believe require some attention. They are generally very minor and not worth crowding out the FAC page:-
 * Background
 * An intrusive comma after "Elected to the presidency in 1896". And shouldn't this be "First elected...." (Why not just "First elected in 1896"?)
 * There is some clumsiness in the formulation "...and to victory in war; the nation won the Spanish-American War in 1898, taking such former colonies as Puerto Rico and the Philippines for its own" - why mention the victory twice? Suggest "and to victory in the Spanish-American War in 1898, when it gained the  former Spanish colonies of Puerto Rico and the Philippines.
 * Not really important, but I understood that Guiteau was a disappointed office-seeker rather than a political or religious nutcase.
 * It's often formulated that way, so I'll meet public expectations.--Wehwalt (talk) 18:28, 30 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Plans and arrivals
 * "This would open foreign markets to US manufacturers, which had dominated the domestic market thanks to the tariff, and who sought to expand." "Which" and "who" used in the same sentence to refer to manufacturers
 * "During the long trip..." → "During a long trip..." And maybe "trip" sounds a bit trivial? Would "tour" be better (though you'd have to avoid repeating the word at the atart of the next paragraph)?
 * In BritEng, "slated" means severely criticised or reprimanded. The sense here is "scheduled", and I wonder if, to avoid misunderstanding, this might not be a better word.
 * Was the designation "President's Day" invented for this occasion, or was it an existing festival/celebration?
 * It has no connection with the holiday Americans today celebrate. Worlds fairs often have thematic days.  New York Day, Women's Day, Nurses Day, that kind of thing.


 * "...cancelled the events which were to be held on the trip east" - why not just "cancelled the remainder of the tour"?
 * When and in what form did Czolgosz make the quoted statement?
 * "The cannon fired a salute to the President on his arrival in the city had been set too close to the track, and the explosions blew out several windows in the train, unnerving the First Lady." Word missing? Perhaps "that" after "cannon"
 * A day at the fair; excursion to Niagara Falls
 * To avoid the impression that "the Milburn House" refers to Milburn rather than his home, maybe tweak the relevant sentence. ("The McKinleys were to stay in Buffalo at "Milburn House", the large home of the Exposition's president, John G. Milburn."
 * "he would travel" → "the president would travel"
 * I think I would extend the image cpation to identify McKinley, e.g. "in centre of podium, with white shortfront"
 * At the Temple of music
 * "Babcock was spooked..." Inappropriate use of slang.
 * "shot at the auditorium" → "shot within the auditorium"?
 * "the greeters"? Is this a reference to the crowds or to some other group?
 * Operation
 * Pipe-link interns (Internship (medicine))
 * Apparent recovery; eventual death
 * Image caption: Hanna should be identified as on the left (if that is so)
 * Afermath
 * "McKinley's body was solemnly taken..." For encyclopedic neutrality, "solemnly" should be deleted.

These few issues should soon be sorted out. Brianboulton (talk) 17:44, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

question
"*Having long been an advocate of protective tariffs, and believing the Dingley Tariff, passed during his first year in office, had helped the nation reach prosperity, McKinley planned to negotiate reciprocal trade agreements with other countries."
 * Are you suggesting this played into the reasons Czolgosz assassinated him?


 * "This would open foreign markets to US manufacturers that had dominated the domestic market thanks to the tariff, and who sought to expand." - who sought to expand? - the foreign markets into the US, the US into foreign markets, or both? Was this a particular anarchist issue? (Trying to understand!)  MathewTownsend (talk) 20:59, 30 March 2012 (UTC)


 * US manufacturers had been greatly helped by the Dingley Tariff. Now that they dominated US markets, McKinley wanted to negotiate reductions with other high-tariff nations so as to benefit US manufacturers by making them more competitive there.  It wasn't an anarchist issue, particularly, it's there to set up the subject matter for McKinley's final speech.  That's why he talked about that.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:11, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
 * So the benefit was both to US manufacturers and foreign manufacturers? - not clear what is meant by the wording.
 * Not foreign, in particular. I'm not certain what McKinley proposed to barter foreign governments in return for getting such agreements to benefit US manufacturers by giving them access to foreign markets on a reduced tariff.  Congress wasn't going to convene until December, so he was trying to build public opinion.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:39, 30 March 2012 (UTC)


 * "when James Parker, an American of part-African part-Spanish descent from Georgia who had been behind Czolgosz in line, slammed into the assassin, reaching for the gun. A split second after Parker struck Czolgosz, so did Buffalo detective John Geary and one of the artillerymen, Francis O'Brien." - why so much detail about James Parker but not John Geary or Francis O'Brien? MathewTownsend (talk) 21:24, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Parker was greatly publicized after the incident; he is in fact notable as he held a public office in the South until Jim Crow (Constable of Savannah, Georgia). Then there was a racist attempt to take credit away from him by crediting O'Brien.  I may write a stub at some point.  Note also in the lede image that the person about to tackle Czolgosz is black.  It seems worth the while of the time to explain it.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:36, 30 March 2012 (UTC)


 * new question
 * How was the transition to Roosevelt handled? I remember reading regarding one of these transitions, that the vice president was in Vermont (or some place like that) and didn't learn that the president had died until two days later. MathewTownsend (talk) 21:49, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Roosevelt behaved quite well. He had been near Mount Marcy in the Adirondacks, and was retrieved by a park ranger and a special train after a moonlight ride through the mountains.  He refused to make any statement to reporters, went to the Wilcox House to change into borrowed formal attire, went to the Milburn House to pay his respects but was not able to view McKinley's body, I gather because of the autopsy although the source doesn't directly say.  He then went back to the Wilcox House to wait while the Cabinet assembled and Hay, as Secretary of State, the senior cabinet member, invited him to take the oath of office, which he did.  He did invite a few reporters and a sketch artist in for the ceremony ...--Wehwalt (talk) 22:03, 31 March 2012 (UTC)


 * another question
 * "Czolgosz, gun in pocket, had arrived early at the fair, and was quite close to the podium before McKinley arrived. He considered shooting the President during his speech, but felt he could not be certain of hitting his target; he was also being jostled by the crowd. Czolgosz had not yet made up his mind when McKinley concluded his speech and disappeared behind security guards.[33] Nevertheless, he attempted to follow McKinley as the President began his intended tour of the fair, but was thrust back by officers.[34] Czolgosz saw no further chance at getting close to the President that day ..." - is this from police interrogations, trial testimony? not a diary!  MathewTownsend (talk) 17:43, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
 * All from Czolgosz statements in custody, I'm afraid, either interrogation answers or his written statement.  He left no diary; he did not testify.--Wehwalt (talk) 17:56, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

Removal of C-SPAN interview links
Hello - Could we discuss the removal of these links? I think that both are quite relevant, and are of benefit to those who would like to learn more about this topic.


 * Booknotes interview with Eric Rauchway on Murdering McKinley: The Making of Theodore Roosevelt's America, September 21, 2003.
 * Q&A interview with Scott Miller on The President and the Assassin, June 22, 2011

Thanks, I'm interested to see everyone's thoughts on this. KConWiki (talk) 03:29, 10 April 2012 (UTC)


 * I have no strong opposition if you want them.--Wehwalt (talk) 15:14, 11 April 2012 (UTC)


 * OK, cool - I just put them back. (BTW, as of this writing, I see that Rauchway and Miller together account for about 1/3 of the reference citations on this article.) Let me encourage anyone interested in this topic to take a look at one or both of those interviews. KConWiki (talk) 02:03, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

"anarchism, a political philosophy whose adherents had killed foreign leaders. " ?
this is in the intro - "anarchism, a political philosophy whose adherents had killed foreign leaders. " - not sure that killing leaders is the essence or anarchism; and not sure it has anything to do with foreign leaders in particular... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.234.19.47 (talk) 07:09, 14 September 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm trying to avoid a discussion of anarchism. It isn't obvious to me that Czolgosz really followed it.  The fact remains, however, that in 1900-01, anarchists were greatly feared because they had killed foreign leaders.  That's all that is trying to say.--Wehwalt (talk) 20:42, 14 September 2012 (UTC)


 * I apologize for my poor presentation but I believe this deserves attention about neutrality. I don't wish to cry conspiracy at every drop of the hat but clearly this has issues that echo through history.  An anarchist (an = without + archist = hierarchy leadership masters) and "Anarchism is a political philosophy that advocates self-governed societies based on voluntary institutions".  An atheist might kill a priest, but most of them will not.  A lunatic may be, but statistically is not an assassin, and vice versa.  Many people regardless of their faith or politics or mental health will resort to violence when they feel unjustly oppressed.  I'd like to read more about that as well as the political, the powerful, and the media's influence on perceptions cultivated about anarchists, socialist, and communists - propaganda if you will.  Most anarchists are not bad, like famous anarchist Emma Goldman who published "The Tragedy at Buffalo".  Anarchism is as important to the discussion, neutrally explained from all sides, as is the importance of the robber baron political support and worker oppression and unemployment for context.
 * Additionally, off the Anarchist topic, I'd like to see alternative/contrasting/counter histories. Not necessarily conspiracy theory nonsense (ie. Leon is eerily similar to Lee Harvey), but there's always more sides than just the official story, as Howard Zinn showed so well supporting histories of underdogs, minorities, and the disenfranchised.  Other pages or sub-sections feature alternative material. JasonCarswell (talk) 15:40, 9 July 2016 (UTC)


 * True, but this is a FA and so generally the reviewers do not allow such things. Someone could put together an article such as Alterate History and the McKinley assassination and we could link it as a see also.--Wehwalt (talk) 15:57, 9 July 2016 (UTC)


 * A separate page would be great, but I'd just love to see a paragraph on many history pages covering alternatives, included but not needlessly excessively = basic representation. It seems to me the "neutrality" pretense of Wikipedia neutralizes diverse perceptions usually in favor of the status quo generally neutering alternatives by default whether valid, factual, or other.  I'm not a creationist or a climate-denier but it would be folly to not include a mention of them on evolution or global warming pages.  I'm not a conspiracy theorist demanding representation of every tinfoil hat idea, but as long as history's perspective remains a trickle down from authority (politics, religion, media, etc) it will fail as a science to optimally portray truths and default into sentimental mythology.  Many suspicious-in-the-least conventional histories need revisiting and updating (and some have - O.J. Simpson, JFK, covert ops, plots and abuses, etc) and that's more difficult if kept omitted or occulted.  If we can't learn from the rhyming echos of history we're doomed to repeat them.  I don't know what Occupy Wall Street or Anonymous could learn from 100 years ago, but that's not for me to decide.  JasonCarswell (talk) 04:45, 10 July 2016 (UTC)

Assassinated on September 6?
To me the wording "The 25th President of the United States, William McKinley, was assassinated on September 6, 1901" is a little odd as McKinley only died several days later. Wouldn't "shot and fatally wounded on September 6" be better? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.102.254.132 (talk) 20:32, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I like that.--Wehwalt (talk) 20:42, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

Theodore Roosevelt?
What is the deal with this decision? We think it's a good idea to delete almost all the material dealing with the man who succeeded to the office when Roosevelt died? And additionally, why were the photos of the Buffalo monument and the stone marking the Temple of Music deleted? Vidor (talk) 15:44, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
 * While I initially put more material on Roosevelt in the article, it was questioned in the review process and I agreed, the focus should be on McKinley. Roosevelt was "offstage" for most of this drama.  I seem to recall that the one of the monument wasn't very good and the one of the rock didn't really say anything about events in an article crowded with better images.--Wehwalt (talk) 18:22, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Well then I wish I'd been around during the review process, because that was a truly bad decision. First, Theodore Roosevelt becoming President is an important part of this event. The house where he was inaugurated is a National Historic Site, which this article does not even mention anymore. Second, I cannot imagine how anyone would think that the rock, the only memorial at the site of the Temple of Music, does not add anything to the article.  How is it not noteworthy to mention what the site looks like now? Vidor (talk) 21:05, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
 * It is mentioned. But this article is about the assassination.  The detail should go in First inauguration of Theodore Roosevelt.  I have no objection to perhaps a See Also for both the inauguration and the house?  And if you feel the rock should go in, the inscription is simple enough that we don't have to worry about copyright.  The memorial would be better, but we have a lousy shot of it and gunning the article for FA (so to speak) I didn't want side issues.  I looked for PD images of it too ...--Wehwalt (talk) 21:12, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

[This is my first time adding to a talk page.] If Roosevelt is to be kept in the article, the reason for his being in Vermont should be corrected. Regarding "Meanwhile, Vice President Roosevelt (who had been on a Vermont vacation),...," Vice President Roosevelt was in Vermont upon invitation during a speaking tour to address the Vermont Fish and Game League at their annual meeting. He was not there on vacation. http://www.roadsideamerica.com/story/31033 http://ilmpt.org/wp/?page_id=815 https://books.google.com/books?id=E6glXcvAXjgC&pg=PA60&lpg=PA60&dq=roosevelt+to+speak+at+vermont+fish+and+game+league&source=bl&ots=ZdkXsDvwMM&sig=xF2IbDHNA164fsQGyaIbC8ZDv8w&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjc--CS4eTVAhXDLyYKHapvBPUQ6AEISTAH#v=snippet&q=On%206%20September%2C&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=IYBDAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA791&lpg=PA791&dq=roosevelt+to+speak+at+vermont+fish+and+game+league&source=bl&ots=IOh2MOVE6u&sig=bM5j7JCgwu1Z6sFWvsdf2msotTc&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjc--CS4eTVAhXDLyYKHapvBPUQ6AEIRjAG#v=onepage&q=roosevelt%20to%20speak%20at%20vermont%20fish%20and%20game%20league&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=d4cUAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA436&lpg=PA436&dq=roosevelt+to+speak+at+vermont+fish+and+game+league&source=bl&ots=uraG6ZEw6L&sig=nAMCWHTk2E-JJ21rjUmP7oaj79k&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjc--CS4eTVAhXDLyYKHapvBPUQ6AEITDAI#v=onepage&q=roosevelt%20to%20speak%20at%20vermont%20fish%20and%20game%20league&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=Q0I5AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA363&lpg=PA363&dq=roosevelt+to+speak+at+vermont+fish+and+game+league&source=bl&ots=4sBPnk62xg&sig=TJtSCcuHGuAiWHTJDoCnX0CSzHg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjc--CS4eTVAhXDLyYKHapvBPUQ6AEITzAJ#v=onepage&q=roosevelt%20to%20speak%20at%20vermont%20fish%20and%20game%20league&f=false Kind regards, Wondering Eyes (talk) 03:14, 20 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you for engaging. The two things aren't mutually exclusive. Until the 1950s, the Vice President had few official duties, just presiding over the Senate as set forth in the constitution. Since the Senate was off until December, no matter how you slice it Roosevelt had time on his hands. If you like, we can cut the word vacation and just say he was in Vermont.--Wehwalt (talk) 05:11, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

This article is not neutral
This article is not a neutral. It fails to mention that J.P. Morgan, Nelson Rockafeller, and Carnegie joined forces to defeat William Jennings Bryan, because William Jennings Bryan ran on a monopoly busting platform. One in ten steel workers died each year working in Carnegie's foundries. Workers were paid starvation wages. The assassin was fired from a company owned by JP Morgan, three months before he killed McKinley. He assassinated McKinley because he correctly believed the Robber Barons had bought the election, that the US ceased being a democracy. McKinley was a wealthy industrialist himself. He was also beholden to J.P. Morgan, Nelson Rockafeller, and Carnegie who had a meeting wherein they decided to "buy" the presidency. They gave McKinley millions of dollars. McKinley was able to outspend William Jennings Brian 5-1. This did not include money the Robber Baron industrialists paid journalists to write articles smearing and slandering William Jennings Brian.

Newspapers wrote if William Jennings Brian were elected president the great industrialists, and the job creators of America would leave the country and close their businesses, that vast numbers of American workers would lose their jobs.

When McKinley was running for president, voting was done in public where everyone could see who voted for who. Voting for one president took place on one side of a street, and voting for another president took place on the other side of the street. Foremen from factories run by the three industrialists monitored the voting. They warned their respective employees they would be fired if they voted for William Jennings Brian.

McKinley's assassination was one of the best things that happened to the US. This information comes from the History Channel documentry, "The Men Who Built America," which generally portrays the "Robber Barons" in a favorable light and flattering terms. "Class-warfare" politician, Teddy Roosevelt, was McKinley's vice-president. The big three industrialists convinced McKinley to appoint Rosevelt his VP, because they throught that would make him irrelevent, and insure that he faded into oblivion.

When McKinley was assasinated their plan backfired. Teddy Roosevelt became president. He busted Rockefeller's Standard Oil, and JP Morgan's railroads. Were it not for McKinley's assasination, Teddy Rosevelt would likely never have become president, and corperations today would be much more powerful than they are. Many historians believe Teddy Roosevelt was the greatest American president. He did a lot to improve the plight of the average American. McKinley turned Abraham Lincoln's party of the people into a party primarily dedicated to buttering the bread, and serving the interests of wealthy Americans. This article makes McKinley sound like a saint, and a politician who represented the common man, when the exact opposite is true. It makes the assassin sound like a crazy anarchist. The assassin may have been an anarchist, but he was driven to his politics by the oppressive practices of his day, by the Robber Barons running the country for their own personal benefit without regard for the welfare of most Americans. This view is historically accurate. But even if you disagree with it, it is still the view of most American historians. This article is not neutral. It only presents the minority view of McKinley supporters. It omits the whole historical background for McKinley's assassination. To dismiss McKinley's assassin as a crazy anarchist distorts reality. This assassin stopped the US from slipping into an outright plutocracy.

It is amazing how the election of 2012 mirrored the election of McKinley. One last point. The French, Russian, and Chinese revolutions were examples of class warfare. Asking the wealthy to pay their fair share is not class warfare. Those who expect the wealthy to pay their fair share do not hate the wealthy, do not begrudge the wealthy their wealth, and do not wish to punish the wealthy. Wealthy American liberals are not hypocrites just because they don't give all their money away. They are willing to pay their fair share so long as all wealthy American pay their fair share. Poor and middle-class Americans do not expect wealthy American liberals to unilaterially pay higher taxes. Warfare imlies people die. Believe it or not, wealthy Americans do not die just because they have to pay more taxes. Poor Americans do die from lack of medical care when wealthy Americans do not pay their fair share. Hospital emergency rooms do not treat poor Americans with chronic diseases like diabetes, kidney failure, herniated disks, chronic pain, high blood pressure, heart disease, and cancer until it is too late late. Hospital emergency rooms only treat emergency conditions. Five of my closest friends died because they could not afford medical treatment. Wealthy Americans like President McKinley, JP Morgan, Nelson Rockefeller waged class warfare against poor Americans, which were the vast majority of Americans in their day. There was no middle-class to speak of. Wealthy industrialists had their henchman murder American workers when they protested and begged for a living wage. Industrialists murdered American workers in their factories and mines by failing to maintain a safe working conditions. No wealthy American ever died from paying higher taxes.

It does no good to send me messages. I don't know how to access my "talk page." I generally refrain from commenting on Wikipedia articles no matter how egregous their mistakes due to bad experiences with the Wikipedia community in the past. I found the Wikipedia community to be a cliquish, back-biting, snakepit. I therefore choose not to read any messages from members of the Wikipedia community. I further choose not to have any interaction with them.

I felt compelled to write this response to this article. I'm sure no member of the Wikipedia community is competent to evaluate my claim, nor does the Wikipedia community really care that so many Wikipedia articles are biased. Wikipedia is a game where truth loses out to players who have lots of time on their hands, and mastery of arcane Wikipedia rules.

"Assassination of William McKinley is a featured article; it has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community."

This really speaks volumes about the quality of Wikipedia articles, and their suppossed neutrality.

The article claims Czolgosz's motive was to futher the cause of anarchists. His real motive stemmed from his losing his job at a JP Morgan factory. He knew McKinley represented the interests of JP Morgan and his fellow industrialists. His objective was to rid the country of a president who was elected under questionable circumstances, who represented the interests of JP Morgan, and who didn't really care about the average American worker. It is quite likely he wanted Theodore Roosevelt to come to power. McKinley was elected in 1897 when most states did not have secret ballots, where voters could be intimidated. Bryan gave speeches prior to the election of 1897 where he specifically claimed if he was elected, he would being going after JP Morgan, Carnegie, and Rockefeller. That is why those three banded together to buy the presidency. They feared waht William Jennings Bryan would do if he were elected.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.254.210.8 (talk) 07:50, 1 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Much of what you say is true, though I think the similarity between 1896 and 2012 lies in other areas. Bryan (forgive the correction) mostly ran on a silver platform in 1896, he did not focus on the trusts until 1900 (though in 1896 he did say enough to make the trusts justly afraid of what he might do). And the secret ballot was in in most states by 1901. However, the political situation is mentioned in this article purely as background. It is not intended to be complete or to discuss the social aspects of 1901; simply to let the reader know how McKinley and Czolgosz got to September 6, 1901.--Wehwalt (talk) 09:47, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Regarding your further comments: we know two things, what Czolgosz said, and what other people have theorized about him.  "To advance anarchism" seemed an appropriate summary based on those.  McKinley was not elected under questionable circumstances.  Possibly some factory workers felt pressured, but if the blacks hadn't been disenfranchised in the South, Bryan would have lost outside the Deep South.  He'd have lost Virginia for sure, he came fairly close to losing it anyway.--Wehwalt (talk) 19:10, 1 February 2013 (UTC)

This article is not neutral
Czolgosz's motive was not to advance an anarchism. We know he was fired from his job three months prior to the assissination. We know he worked for a factory owned by JP Morgan. We know JP Morgan admitted to buying the election, and placing his man in the White House. This information comes from the History Channel documentry, "The Men Who Built America," which generally portrays the "Robber Barons" in a favorable light and flattering terms. This same History Channel documentry stated workers on a wholesale basis were intimidated from voting their preferance because they had to vote in the open. McKinley was elected under questionable circumstances. American democracy had been hijacked. Wehwalt is entitled to his opinion, but his opinion is not the majority opinion of historians. There is no need to theorize why Czolgosz shot McKinley. It is patently obvious. The article presents Wehwalt's point of view. It does not present the point of view of the History Channel and most historians. The article makes McKinley sound like a good president, and his assassin sound like an irrational nut job, when in fact Czolgosz had a legitimate cause to assassinate McKinley. The Robber Barons were squeezing the American populice. They had created monopolies. Work conditions in their factories and founderies were intolerable. Workers were dying left and right from hazardous work conditions. When workers protested their work conditions they were shot dead. Then JP Morgan, Rockefeller, and Carnegie conspired to rig the election so McKinley won. This effectively turned American citizens into slave laborers. These conditions typically lead to revolt, revolution, and political upheaval. Czolgosz act was not irrational. Clearly he was motivated to kill McKinley because he lost his job, and had no means to survive. If Czolgosz had not lost his job, it is very unlikely he would have killed McKinley. If JP Morgan, Rockefeller, and Carnegie had not successfully rigged the election, it is doubtful Czolgosz would have killed McKinley. JP Morgan, Rockefeller, and Carnegie decision to buy a US president was not a secret. Most Americans reconnize that JP Morgan, Rockefeller, and Carnegie subverted US democracy by their actions. This majority view is not expressed in the article at all. The article omits all of this. The truth casts Czolgosz's assasination of McKinley in a much different light than the one presented in the article. If someone becomes an anarchist because they lose their job, because workers across the US can't find decent work, because they can't afford to live, because they watch the political system of their country hijacked by a handful of wealthy industrialists, it is foolish to say their motivation comes solely from wanting to further the anarchist agenda. This wikipedia article only tells one side. It is therefore not neutral. You are biased, and not neutral. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.254.210.8 (talk) 09:24, 2 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Some of what you say is based in fact. It's impossible to avoid having something of one's perspective put into an article, which is of course true of any article.  Second, it is easier to paint McKinley as a person, because we know a lot about McKinley, at least his public persona and what was said about the way he acted during the week after the shooting.  Czolgosz we know only from what came out because of his deed, and the authorities gave him as little opportunity to speak publicly as they could.  They may even have cut short his final statement in the electric chair.  And you're dealing with a 1901 attitude towards Czolgosz which is reflected in the name of the law review article we use (for details on Czolgosz's trial, mostly).  I am aware there are theories that Czolgosz was nuts, but that's not what you are saying, is it?  You want us to paint him as justified in shooting a president.  Not happening.--Wehwalt (talk) 09:48, 2 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Hmm....not wikipedia's place to paint him as justified or unjustified I would have thought. NPOV and all that. The article should I think refer to what records show as LC's most grievance against McKinley which was the Filipino pacification. Jeremytrewindixon (not logged in) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 150.101.162.94 (talk) 08:30, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

Czolgosz' birthplace ?
This article states that he was born in Detroit (and gives the 1970 book by A. Wesley Johns as its source); the article on Czolgosz himself however has "Alpena, MI" as place of birth - with a fairly precise sounding reference to the Twelth US census (and one to a book published in 1921). I just looked up the census sheet referred to - and it gives the year of birth as 1873, yet under "place of birth" it has "Ohio" and as place of birth for both parents "Germany". Albrecht Conz (talk) 01:53, 6 September 2014 (UTC)
 * I just looked a little bit more: The prison card from Auburn Prison says under nativity: "Mich.". The book by Biggs from 1921 that is given as a reference in the article on Czolgosz mentions (on p. 262) notes of a conversation the prison warden at Auburn had with Czolgosz, quoting them as follows: "He was born in Alpena, Michigan, in 1873 where he resided until he was five years of age, when he removed to Detroit, where he resided eleven years..." Albrecht Conz (talk) 02:21, 6 September 2014 (UTC)
 * We could certainly change it to Michigan.--Wehwalt (talk) 09:47, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

Now a FA in Chinese Wikipedia
I have translated this article to Chinese Wikipedia here and promoted to FA status, and I want to thank User:Wehwalt for his effort to write this amazing article. --Jarodalien (talk) 08:38, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

Requested edit for McKinley Marker
This article is currently semi-protected. I have no conflict of interest, but I am not a registered user. I request that some autoconfirmed editor add to the end of the Aftermath section the following sentences:
 * In June 28, 1921, by a small plaque on an oblong granite boulder dedicated in Buffalo very near the spot where McKinley was shot. It is near 30 Fordham Drive, in the street median. The inscription on the plaque reads:"In the Pan-American Temple of Music which covered this spot President McKinley was fatally shot Sept. 4, 1901. This marker placed by the Buffalo Historical Society."

Supporting links (pick whichever you feel is most reliable):
 * http://www.ci.buffalo.ny.us/files/1_2_1/public%20art%20website/web%20pages/McKinley%20Marker.html
 * http://www.roadsideamerica.com/story/32297
 * http://www.atlasobscura.com/places/william-mckinley-assassination-plaque
 * http://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WM1MR2_Site_of_the_Assassination_of_President_McKinley_Buffalo_NY
 * https://www.tripadvisor.com/LocationPhotoDirectLink-g60974-d7753680-i125343805-McKinley_Death_Rock-Buffalo_New_York.html
 * http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=11672
 * http://www.buffalopresidentialcenter.org/McKinley%20Marker.html
 * http://www.buffalocurse.com/mckinley.htm

Thanks.--130.65.109.100 (talk) 21:03, 11 May 2016 (UTC)


 * I don't doubt it's true, but why should it be included? How does it fit into the article?  I don't like the text, but how about adding one of those links as an external link?  Would that work for you?--Wehwalt (talk) 02:13, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I would not object to an image of the marker, but I disagree with including the text. It really isn't that relevant to the assassination itself.--Wehwalt (talk) 11:02, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

I'd say an image of a marker for the site of a presidential assassination in an article on said assassination is very relevant and should be included. I think that most people would wonder what became of the spot. 173.90.65.191 (talk) 04:05, 13 June 2018 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071107104041/http://ublib.buffalo.edu:80/libraries/exhibits/panam/law/assassination.html to http://ublib.buffalo.edu/libraries/exhibits/panam/law/assassination.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071005233141/http://www.crimelibrary.com:80/terrorists_spies/assassins/mckinley/1.html to http://www.crimelibrary.com/terrorists_spies/assassins/mckinley/1.html

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Typo
Courtelyou -> Cortelyou [unsigned, by IP]


 * Thank you for catching that. I've corrected it.--Wehwalt (talk) 14:05, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

Gangrenous should link to Gangrene, not Wiktionary
Hello, I am not a registered User so I an not edit this Article. However, the sentence

"McKinley initially appeared to be recovering, but took a turn for the worse on September 13 as his wounds became gangrenous, and died early the next morning"

"gangrenous" should not link to Wiktionary, but probably to Gangrene instead.78.94.30.154 (talk) 00:14, 6 February 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://ublib.buffalo.edu/libraries/exhibits/panam/law/assassination.html
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Last photograph
There is a photo on the page of McKinley arriving at the Temple of Music, and there is a photo of him inside the building greeting people. Yet the one of him arriving is called the last known photograph. How can this be? Mark Froelich (talk) 04:38, 6 September 2017 (UTC)
 * The sources are inconsistent, so I've taken down the claim that the one on the steps was the last photograph. I'm suspicious of whether the last last photograph was taken inside the Temple of Music, as the background doesn't match, but who knows?--Wehwalt (talk) 07:59, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

"McKinley" --> "Kinley"
Apparently, some in the family changed their name from "McKinley" to "Kinley" after the assassination. Check out this article on one of his descendants. Does this belong here? I think so, but as its an FA I don't want to jump in without discussion. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:34, 24 March 2018 (UTC)


 * I think we'd need a little more substantiation than that that this happened, given he left no descendants. And even so, I'm dubious about adding it.--Wehwalt (talk) 22:04, 24 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Hmm. He seems to think he's a descendant. I see both of McKinley's children died in childhood. The article says Tyler Kinley is his great-great-great nephew. – Muboshgu (talk) 16:30, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes, thus the dangers of third or fourth hand family legend, which should not without more be reported as solemn fact.--Wehwalt (talk) 23:08, 28 March 2018 (UTC)

Correction needed
The next to the last sentence of the Operation subsection needs a period after the ellipsis (s/b - "when he was shot by a...."). And the sentence that follows should have its period put inside the quote mark ("anarchist."). 173.90.65.191 (talk) 03:54, 13 June 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 August 2018
The "perpetrator" part of the infobox at the top of the article includes, in parentheses after Czolgosz's name, his criminal penalty (electrocution). That information is unnecessary and inconsistent with other assassination articles, which do not include such info following the perpetrators' names. Could somebody please remove it? MarcelTheHippie (talk) 16:59, 28 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done L293D (☎ • ✎) 18:44, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 July 2019
Fourth paragraph from the top of the page reads:


 * "McKinley initially appeared to be recovering, but took a turn for the worse on September 13 as his wounds became gangrenous, and died early the next morning"

McKinley died on September 19th, while the sentence written implies that he died on September 14th. This should be changed to accurately reflect his date of death. DanZFLT (talk) 22:35, 27 July 2019 (UTC)
 * You are mistaken. The article is accurate as it stands.--Wehwalt (talk) 22:36, 27 July 2019 (UTC)

Anyone have a period citation for the Myrtle Ledger anecdote?
Can anyone provide a period source for the Myrtle Ledger anecdote, where McKinley is in the Temple of Music, bends down and gives her the flower off his lapel, and moments later, Czolgosz steps up and fires? The earliest print version we could find was from 1984. We could not find it in any of the digitized Buffalo newspapers at Newspapers.com, which includes all of the assassination coverage from 1901. Likewise, if you go to Google images and search on McKinley assassination, you get a decent selection of photos taken the day of his visit, before he stepped into the Temple of Music. None of them show a flower on his lapel.

This is the 1984 article: https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=950&dat=19840907&id=s3BIAAAAIBAJ&sjid=0FkDAAAAIBAJ&pg=5729,1452311&hl=en

Bechs (talk) 22:33, 30 October 2019 (UTC)
 * I added it to the article but did not look past the cited source for more information.--Wehwalt (talk) 02:39, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

Comments on Article's Introduction
CzolgoszWiki (talk) 08:36, 9 November 2019 (UTC)


 * Para 1: "...shot him twice in the abdomen." -- Incorrect. McKinley was shot once in the chest and once in the abdomen.
 * Para 1: "...died on September 14 of gangrene caused by the wounds." -- I don't believe it's accurate to say that the wounds "caused" the gangrene. The gangrene was a complication that developed as a result of his being shot.
 * Para 2: "...feared that an assassination attempt would take place..." -- Neither Cortelyou nor anyone else had information intimating an assassination attempt was imminent. They were simply fearful in general about McKinley's safety anywhere he went in public. I suggest, therefore, you change "would" to "could."
 * Para 3. "One bullet grazed McKinley; the other entered his abdomen and was never found." -- First portion of sentence lacks specificity. Possible rewording: "The first bullet glanced off McKinley's chest, creating a minor abrasion; the second penetrated the abdomen and was never located."
 * Para 4: "...he died early the next morning; Vice President..." -- This is a run-on sentence. Change semi-colon to a period.
 * Para 4: "Czolgosz was sentenced to death in the electric chair, and Congress passed legislation..." -- Suggest rewriting as follows: "Czolgosz was convicted of murder ten days later and executed in the electric chair at Auburn, New York, the following month. Congress later passed legislation...."

Correction for External Links section
CzolgoszWiki (talk) 08:59, 9 November 2019 (UTC)

Please correct the name of the second source in the External Links section. The title of the source is McKinley Assassination Ink. Thank you very much.

Emma Goldman
Emma Goldman did not have a daughter. Not sure who she was going to the fair with, but she had no known children. DAH2022 (talk) 15:06, 27 September 2022 (UTC)


 * I've removed that. Wehwalt (talk) 15:14, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

Uncited claim about New York court
Citation needed got reverted, saying to review the source, but there is no citation for the claim: "By 1901, this movement was feared in the United States – New York's highest court had ruled that the act of identifying oneself as an anarchist in front of an audience was a breach of the peace.". There are citations for the preceding and succeeding completely different claims. As best I can tell, that ruling was after the assassination. At minimum, if there was a case that I have been unable to find evidence of, including its name or any other identifiable information about it would be of great help to readers in the future. Thyrfa (talk) 02:19, 6 December 2022 (UTC)


 * It is cited to the next footnote. Multiple sentences can be sourced to the same footnote. Can you review the source? Wehwalt (talk) 02:49, 6 December 2022 (UTC)

Spetember -> September
In the last paragraph, September is misspelled: "He died at 2:15 am on Spetember 14th". 135.180.144.173 (talk) 17:50, 3 February 2023 (UTC)