Talk:Association football/Archive 24

Editors of this page
Why people who hate the game are editors of this page? It's called Football. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMv8g8CO4cQ&feature=player_embedded — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.78.196.37 (talk) 10:57, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Edit request from Chelsea8888, 9 August 2011
Under misconduct, the recent backpass rule has not yet been exlained in the article. Please note that if a defender passes the ball back to the keeper, the keeper may not pick up the ball, unless it is bouncing at about chest level. If this infrigment of the law happens, and inderect free kick is awarded 15- yards outside the goal. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chelsea8888 (talk • contribs) 15:11, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
 * That is not an actual rule. If a player passes the ball back to the goalkeeper with his feet, the goalkeeper may not touch the ball with his hands. Full stop. – PeeJay 15:15, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Must admit that I agree with PeeJay about this one. I can only speak for the laws in Europe though, it might be different elsewhere. Although I doubt it. Cls14 (talk) 08:39, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

Venue description Pitch and Field
A significant portion of the English speaking world, if not the majority refers to then playing area as a soccer field. Does anyone have a reason for not changing the venue information in the info box  from Football pitch to "Field or Pitch" and keep the relevant links?Fasttimes68 (talk) 21:05, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
 * It now reads as if the sport can be played on a field or a pitch. It might be clearer to put 'pitch' in parenthesis? Or just leave it as football pitch (which is consistent with the article being in BrEng) and leave any nuances to the text. The same arguments also apply to 'football or soccer ball', further up the infobox.ReadingOldBoy (talk) 09:28, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't have a problem with using pitch in lieu of field as the main term as long as field is actually introduced.  Although I see no valid reason this article favors BrEng. Fasttimes68 (talk) 11:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
 * The article favours BrEn because that's the variant it was originally written in. WP:ENGVAR states that when there is no clear reason for one variant to be favoured over another, the original variant should be favoured. I happen to believe that the article has closer ties to BrEn anyway. Furthermore, I agree with ReadingOldBoy; I have no problem with other terms being introduced in parentheses or even in the prose for the first usage, but we should stick to BrEn for all other uses. – PeeJay 11:55, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the explanation of BrEn. Makes sense to me.  I agree with the prose suggestion as well.Fasttimes68 (talk) 12:44, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from, 18 October 2011
History

"Organised" football was being played in castle courtyards in Scotland more than 500 years ago, experts have found. Documents show a set of accounts from the court of King James IV indicating he paid two shillings for a bag of "fut ballis" in April 1497.The world's oldest surviving football dates back to 1540 and was found behind panelling in Stirling Castle, Scotland. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.193.95.115 (talk) 21:19, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Scotland v. England illustration caption WRONG on some count
I don't know which part of this caption is wrong, but the illustration depicts AT MOST TWO of:

(i) the first international match; (ii) a match in 1872; (iii) a match at The Oval.

It can't be correct on all three counts!

If (i) and (ii), it's at Hamilton Crescent in Glasgow. If (i) and (iii), it's not in 1872 and not the OFFICIAL first international, but the unofficial first match in 1870 (see elsewhere). If (ii) and (iii), it's not the first international by any reckoning, just one of the unofficial games played between Scottish and English representative teams at The Oval (of which there were five in total between 1870 and 1872).

Of course, it might just be (iii), and could depict the SECOND official international in 1873; or it could be later altogether; or none of the above! Someone who knows more about the illustration itself is needed to correct this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.100.217.69 (talk) 01:59, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 22 February 2012
In the last sentence of the "Variants and casual play" section please change:

Such games can have often have team sizes that vary considerably from 11-a-side

TO

Such games can often have team sizes that vary considerably from 11-a-side

Ny cs2 (talk) 01:39, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
 * ✅ Thanks. Dru of Id (talk) 01:54, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

A redirect
The redirect football (soccer) links to this article and is very high on Wikipedia's predictive search. However it is against Wikipedia's policy that brackets are only for part of a title (like $pringfield (Or, How I Learnt to Stop Worrying and Love Legalized Gambling)) or a disambiguation. Instead it is a nickname used archaically in Britain and widespread in a country which doesn't like it. Delete and salt 86.154.118.65 (talk) 22:44, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure I understand you. Neither WP:TITLE or WP:REDIRECT makes any mention about a prohibition on redirects having brackets or parentheses. Where did you see this? CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 00:56, 9 March 2012 (UTC)
 * It should be deleted and salted because football is not a kind of soccer (think Mockingbird, Mockingbird (song).) That is what brackets are set out ot do. It would be like putting United States (America) Indiasummer95 (talk) 13:21, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
 * You are still not clear. If football is not soccer then what is it and why does this article say it is? Why would you delete something that hurts the readers ability to find this article? By the way there is also Football (American) but I couldn't find any others but I probably fix that later. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 16:11, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

Comment
First there was football, then American Football was evolved from it.

Link for different names of the game; http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net/photo/3563572_460s_v1.jpg

USA is not the only country in the world. Wikipedia shouldn't be racist towards the rest of the world. Name "Soccer" was invented by americans in 60's, name "Association Football" was invented by American Football fans editing Wikipedia. This is wrong.

212.149.211.61 (talk) 02:31, 31 March 2012 (UTC)uiuiiu
 * The article says the term "soccer" was invented by the Brits in the '80s (1880s to be exact). I've been watching the naming debates for a long time now, and there has no clear favorite, as most English-speaking countries call this sport by another name aside from "football" (only the Brits call it that; Aussies, NZ, Canadians and even South Africans, not just Americans, call it soccer), though while the rest of the world calls it "football", it's on a local language, most of the time as a loanword.
 * With that said, I'd still say the current article is bad compromise, if you call this as a compromise. "Association football" might've been the most common name, in the 1880s but not in the 2010s. The best recourse of action could be moving this to "Football (association football)", although that'll be like "Football (soccer)" which was already frowned upon, which I don't get why. For disambiguating article names, the first way is to label it by its distinguishing factor, in this case, this is the football code that is formally known as "Association football". Or probably name this as "Football (football)"? Ha ha. Interestingly, American (and Canadian) football is also called "football" by the people that use them frequently, but they're quite happy with the current article titles; if they do get unhappy, would moving it to "Football (American)" or even "Football (American football)" make sense? – H T  D  15:19, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
 * (I know this should be discussed on another page but since this was here, I replied here. Aside from the well-thought off reasoning, I also watch the debates for anti-American sentiments, which always crop up in cases such as this.) – H T  D  15:19, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

in the "Olympics" section of the Infobox, the sentence reads "Reurned to the Summer Olympic programme in 1936 to today". Shouldn't it be "Returned to the Summer Olympic programme in 1936 to today" ?
 * ✅ Tb hotch .™ Grammatically incorrect? Correct it!  See terms and conditions.  19:59, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

"Soccer" is a common term for the game in Ireland where "football" is used by many to mean Gaelic Football. I think this should be reflected within the brackets as well as US and Canada. 86.44.202.60 (talk) 17:59, 10 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Please see the other debates on this. Association Football is the name of the article as that is the official name of the sport in English. Football (soccer) was not chosen as American Football is called American Football, Australian Rules Football is called Australian Rules football etc. The guy above makes the point that it is called Soccer in most countries outside the UK, which might well be true. But this is an encyclopedia and thus official names should be used. Cls14 (talk) 12:41, 11 May 2012 (UTC)


 * I know all that (I used to do the whole wikipedia thing years ago!), I'm not protesting the title or that official titles should be used in encyclopedias. I'm saying that where the article says "primarily United States and Canada", Ireland should likely be included due to the common usage of the term. 86.44.202.60 (talk) 14:23, 11 May 2012 (UTC)


 * I agree with you there. However I have changed it to "soccer (where other codes of football are more widely practised)" as it is known as that in certain parts of Australia as well as the US, Canada and Ireland and presumably some other places too. Cls14 (talk) 14:41, 11 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Was there anything wrong with "more commonly known as football or soccer"? This had been the stable version of the lead since 2007 until it was changed twice earlier this month . The etymology and names section below the lead deals with the international name differences in more detail so is there any need to add the parentheses? Barret (talk) 16:19, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

It is perhaps not the whole truth to say soccer is a commonly used term in Ireland to describe football. It would be much more correct to say that soccer is the common term used for Association Football by suporters and players of Gaelic Football. It is only with Gaelic Football afficionados that the use of the term 'football' to describe soccer is a matter of contention. An indication of the levels of support for the respective games of football can be guaged by the number of hits on boards.ie (Ireland's largest internet forum) Recent figures on boards.ie show a hits figure for the GAA (Gaelic Athletic Association, the governing body of all Gaelic sports) to be 150,000+. At the same time the hits figure on boards.ie for football (soccer) was 1.5m+ The governing football bodies in Ireland are called the Football Association of Ireland, and the Irish Football Association. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mervyn Crawford (talk • contribs) 12:47, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
 * "It is only with Gaelic Football afficionados that the use of the term 'football' to describe soccer is a matter of contention." This reflects your own bias more than anything else, obviously. Your Boards.ie figures (where British soccer, rather than Irish soccer is the subject matter) merely reflect the weakness of the GAA Forum there, which is largely due to the hugely popular online alternatives (e.g. www.Hill16.ie). The governing body of soccer in Ireland doesn't even have its own soccer pitch; it instead uses the rugby grounds on Lansdowne Road. That's perspective. The GAA, whose principal sport is Gaelic Football, is far and away the most popular and supported organisation in Irish life. Nobody would deny this. Even in Dublin, the strongest area for soccer, the GAA is massive with a large number of enormous clubs with huge support (and lands) in the city. This is reflected in Dublin's victory in the 2011 All-Ireland Senior Football Championship Final. It is a Dublin GAA club, Ballymun Kickhams, which next Sunday will play in the Leinster Senior Football Final in Mullingar. Ballymun is one of the most deprived areas of Dublin yet the sport is Football, not Soccer. "Soccer" is far and away the most common name for, well, soccer in Ireland. A less polite name, but well-known nonetheless, is "the Garrison Game", which reflects the origins of soccer with British colonial rule in Ireland. 79.97.154.238 (talk) 12:49, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

It is ridiculous that China is referenced as a possible 'inventor' of football when clearly the sport originated completely in Great Britain. Obviously ball games have been played by various cultures around the globe for thousands of years however the game we think of as football or 'soccer' originated in Britain - it really is that simple. I strongly urge those who have editing rights for this page to edit out the China reference as it is not only untrue but it is also so preposterous that it goes against the very principles of Wikipedia. If the reader is still unconvinced I shall demonstrate my point further with another example: Calcio Fiorentino is an Italian ball game that originated in Renaissance Florence, it is extremely violent and dangerous to participate in. Here is its Wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calcio_Fiorentino now, just because it has various similarities with Rugby and American Football does mean that it is a direct precursor to those sports. No one would ever suggest that Rugby's origins lie in Italy and it is just as mad to suggest that association football's lie in china.Blobplop (talk) 12:07, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Length of Game
Shouldn't the length of the game be included on this page? Indicate something like "A professional game totals 90 minutes. That time is divided into two equal halves, each lasting 45 minutes. The time between two halves is called halftime and lasts 15 minutes." Pub Market (talk) 14:36, 23 October 2012 (UTC)


 * It's in their mate:

"Duration and tie-breaking methods A standard adult football match consists of two periods of 45 minutes each, known as halves. Each half runs continuously, meaning that the clock is not stopped when the ball is out of play. There is usually a 15-minute half-time break between halves. The end of the match is known as full-time." Cls14 (talk) 17:03, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

Where first played
It currently says:

"First played	Mid-19th century Great Britain, Nottinghamshire, Sheffield."

Sheffield is in the county of South Yorkshire, not Nottinghamshire.

So the line should read:

"Mid-19th century Great Britain, Yorkshire, Sheffield" (as South Yorkshire wasn't created until 1974) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Spaghettipizza (talk • contribs) 13:43, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Surely it should actually read: Sheffield, Yorkshire, Great Britain (or more probably England)? Cls14 (talk) 10:16, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Wrong also, alas. It was Sheffield, [in the] West Riding of Yorkshire, [in] England (this is the preferred name here in England).
 * In Yorkshire, we had the Ridings, which were de facto sub-counties (as well as the "Parts", in the neighbouring Lincolnshire). -- 212.50.187.18 (talk) 08:47, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

Footy?
Article says the game is known as 'Footy'. When I grew up it was always called 'Footer'. I think 'footy' is a modern version of the name.Betty Butt (talk) 05:43, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
 * What's 'modern'? It was footy in the 1990s in the English Midlands. Could be a geographical thing as well. Cls14 (talk) 12:50, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Bettybutt, how old are you? Also, did you go to Eton? – PeeJay 12:54, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
 * My granddad (would have been 84 this year) called it footer and certainly didn't go to Eton, haha. I seem to remember that Billy Bunter and his 'chums' used to call it that in their books though! Cls14 (talk) 14:10, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

NCAA College Soccer
Anybody mind me adding a college soccer section. The NCAA sport and different conferences are quite popular and particularly offer an example of how women's soccer is celebrated.Stewaj7 (talk) 15:15, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Seems a little specific for the main article of the subject as a whole. It seems to be a sub-section of college football in one country. Bet it's really, really good but not on the main article. Any other thoughts from anyone else? Cls14 (talk) 07:31, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Higher education football —Wiki Wikardo 22:13, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

Name of the game in Australia and New Zealand
Seen there's been a few changes to the article regarding the above. Having travelled around Australia a couple of times (haven't been to SA or NT) and being a British association football fan I've had long conversations with people from Hobart to Perth about this matter. It all seems to appear what state you're from and what code of football you like to play what you call it Cls14 (talk) 12:17, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

Friendly?
What is a friendly? I hear this term a lot on BBC, but it's never explained. The Wik article refers to "friendly matches," which I assume are the same thing, but they aren't explained either.Kdammers (talk) 02:58, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * See exhibition game. In British English the alternative ways of communicating the same thing (such as exhibition, preparation or demo) are not commonly used in this context, hence use of "friendlies". I have added a wikilink into this article for the benefit of future readers. Regards, —WFC— FL wishlist 03:52, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Rugby football clubs
Currently the articles says: "Other English rugby football clubs followed this lead and did not join the FA, or subsequently left the FA" the "or subsequently left the FA" was added with this edit in April 2007. On the strength of information on the article on the Civil Service F.C., I am removing that addition. -- PBS (talk) 16:34, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

Request for edit - Victorian rules football
Under the heading History, third paragraph. This is simply an error of nomenclature. The game played across most of Australia is, and has always been called, Australian Rules Football. The author of this text was no doubt mistaken because the first games were played in Victoria, but even at the time the sport was called "Australian Rules Football". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.175.209.109 (talk) 01:54, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Object of the Game
The first paragraph reads: "The object of the game is to score by kicking the ball into the opposing goal." Heading is also a way to score, so shouldn't it read "The object of the game is to score by kicking or heading the ball into the opposing goal"? 69.251.210.39 (talk) 23:46, 11 February 2013 (UTC)S Milner
 * True. But technically your could use your shoulder, chest or even your backside to score. A more general term may be needed. However as it is an introductory paragraph its primary purpose is to online the basics so personally I have no problem with it Cls14 (talk) 10:54, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

2nd paragraph states: "Outfield players use their feet to kick the ball and occasionally their head". Kick the ball with their head? Maybe 'control' rather than kick? Markb (talk) 14:55, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
 * The real problem with that second paragraph is that it states that "outfield players use their feet to kick...their head". Kicking the head is surely a foul of some sort, isn't it? --Khajidha (talk) 15:16, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

The most significant and primary improvement needed is in the article's name. 'Association' football is not an existing sport. — Preceding unsigned comment added by LeoThugs (talk • contribs) 10:39, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
 * You are clearly either a troll or just ignorant. Where do you think the word "soccer" comes from? – PeeJay 22:44, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Hello LeoThugs, this has been discussed, at length, on previous discussion pages. Please check there. The official name of the sport is Association Football, you are 100% wrong Cls14 (talk) 08:24, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

Football/Assoc Football
Shouldn't the heading be Football, not Assoc. Football? I've never heard of it being called 'Assoc football'. Is this done in the name of consensus/neutrality? Because the only ones who care are Americans/Canadians. The rest of the word calls this sport Football, not Assoc. Football.Oxr033 (talk) 16:57, 31 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I would say it is for neutrality, yes. Different countries in the Anglosphere derive different meanings from the word "football". In Ireland, it could be Gaelic football, in Australia it could be Australian rules football, in the US it could be American football, so for Brits to presume that association football is the one that deserves to use the "Football" article title would be pretty arrogant. The term "association football" may not be commonly used, but at least it is neutral. – PeeJay 21:27, 31 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Why don't we break it down by population. What percentage of the world refers to 'association football' as 'football'. It must be about 90%Oxr033 (talk) 20:00, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't see how that's relevant, and I also don't think this conversation is going to get anyone anywhere. There is no reason to move the article from its current location due to the inherent unsuitability of the alternatives. – PeeJay 22:24, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, we could do that, but it makes no sense to count those whose native language isn't English as it is native speakers who set the norms that these non-native speakers learn. Doing that we then look at List of countries by English speaking population and discover that this would mean that the page title should be "soccer" as that is what it is called in the most widely spoken dialect of English. I somehow doubt that you would be willing to accept that, so why expect everyone else to accept the title of this page being changed to "football" when in many dialects of English "football" means something quite different. While "association football" may be considered obscure or overly technical in some dialect of English it is not wrong in any of them. --Khajidha (talk) 17:13, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Association Football is its proper name, just as there are other codes of football like "American Football", "Canadian Football", "Gaelic Football", "Australian Rules Football", "Swap Football", "Street Football" and the like. As there are a couple/three different names for this code then using the official one was a great consensus that will be closely guarded by those who put it in place :-P Cls14 (talk) 07:12, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

"The king sport"
Vvven added this nickname on 20 May 2013, but I am somewhat confused as to what is meant. I presume that this is a translation from a Spanish or Portuguese original, but I don't think that this is a particularly well done translation. Specifically, I am not sure if this is better rendered "the king of sports" or "the sport of kings". Does anybody know which is meant? --Khajidha (talk) 16:31, 12 June 2013 (UTC)
 * In Britain the "Sport of Kings" is horse racing. As this is supposed to be written in British English I would suggest removing this name, or at least made clear where it comes from. Dja1979 (talk) 03:47, 13 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't know how popular the name is in non-English speaking countries. Might be better to have the name in the original language? Cls14 (talk) 09:59, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Clarification of description needed
comment - I do not know how to undo the lock to fix some issues with this article. It notes that a goalkeeper 'is only allowed to touch the ball with his hands and arms inside his box', this is a crude description for a non soccer knowledgeable person... a better description would be that the goalkeeper is allowed to touch the ball with ANY part of his or her body inside the box, though once outside the box, regular soccer rules apply, which means even the goalkeeper cannot touch the ball with hands or arm. Just wanted to add this to help clarify soccer to the people who maybe need better clarification - and to add to the overall quality of wiki :) (BigSoc (talk) 12:27, 30 August 2013 (UTC))

FIFA =! IFAB
In the opening paragraph, football's international rulemaking body, IFAB, is parenthetically identified as FIFA. The IFAB is actually composed of 8 voting members: 4 from FIFA, and 1 apiece from the English, Scottish, Irish, and Welsh FAs. It is FIFA that puts on the World Cup. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.91.18.21 (talk) 09:02, 21 September 2013 (UTC)