Talk:Association for Renaissance Martial Arts/Archive 3

Category
I'm am not sure why this article was removed from the "Martial arts organizations" category but I have added the article back to that category. My gut feeling is some people will attempt to remove any Western MA organization from the "Martial arts organizations" category. Hopefully, I am wrong. Ranp 15:39, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism
Parry_4, please do not change anything someone else writes in on a talk page, including a section title!Ranp 19:12, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Well it looks like we are going through another round of vandalism. I am willing spare all the time required to remove such vandalism.Ranp 15:04, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Advertisement

 * It isn't vandalism. It's a request for edits to correct the ad-like tone of the article.  That request is perfectly valid. ~ Parry_4


 * Given that the ARMA web site has been one of the most popular WMA sites for over 10 years and that ARMA currently has a membership rejection rate of over 50 percent, it is silly to suggest that ARMA needs this article for advertisement. However, if you are truely not just attempting to take shots at ARMA them might we assume that you are wanting to improve the article?  I do not agree with you that the article sounds like advertisement but I am open to hearing your suggestions on how the article should be re-written.  Or are you just wanting the article to be deleted?Ranp 19:12, 17 May 2007 (UTC)


 * By the way, who are you Parry_4? There is no need to hide.  If you truely have concern for Wikipedia and the ARMA article then come clean, stand in the light.Ranp 19:12, 17 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Parry_4, I do not see any suggestions from you on how to improve this article. Failure to provide suggestions will be taken, along with your hidden indentification, as an indication that you are just another ARMA hater and are just wanting to vandalize this article.  If I do not see any suggestions from you by next week I will once again remove the tags.  I more than willing to play the edit game. :) Ranp 19:12, 18 May 2007 (UTC)


 * RanP, How is your personal ultimatum relevant to editing Wikipedia? It's not like you have any more authority to make these decisions than any other registered user.  If you remove the tags without editing the articles to provide NPoV, I or someone else will restore them regardless of whatever foot-stomping you do.  ARMA may have thought it could pull a fast one and make grandiose claims on Wikipedia, but as has already been shown, the Wikipedia community won't put up with it.  There are plenty of neutral editors that have continually stated the article is biased, uncited, and filled with claims that don't bear out under close scrutiny.  (For crying out loud, we have an archive on the discussion page that demonstrates that this article has issues.)  That stuff doesn't belong here and you're more than welcome to post it on your own site in whatever way you feel is best.  If you want to solve the issue with this article, drop the ultimatums and revise the text so that it is factually accurate and doesn't sound like someone selling dish-soap.  Too often you're making sweeping and unprovable assertions that misrepresent ARMA's influence.  This isn't the place to sell your product. ~Parry_4


 * Your statements clearly show that you are not neutral in regard to ARMA. Given your very limited activity on Wikipedia it should also be clear that you do not represent the Wikipedia community.  I very much do hope neutral editors who are have a long history in the Wikipedia community do step into this issue.  The recent history of the reconstruction of Historical European Martial Arts is a topic discussed on Wikipedia.  Since ARMA has play an extremely important role in that reconstruction one cannot fully understand the history of that reconstruction without a clear understanding of ARMA.  Therefore, an article on ARMA is very much justified.  Is it not clear from your statements that you are not seeking to improve the article, but rather you are seeking to have it deleted?  By the way, why are you still hiding?  Are you hiding who you are because you have a long anti-ARMA history? Ranp 14:41, 22 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I think you could more properly say that I am not neutral when it comes to factual information. I'm in favor of provable facts and not spin.  While it may be your opinion that ARMA is the best thing since sliced bread and super-nifty, that is a qualitative statement and not quantitative.  As much as you might like to attack the messenger, the real issue here is the article and not my objections.  It is a typical form of the argumentum ad hominem that dodges the issue by attacking the arguer.  Rewrite the piece with facts instead of marketing and it will be fine.  In the mean time, skip the personal attacks and try building a better article.  ~Parry_4 May 31, 2007


 * The article is not written as marketing. Also, I have not attacked you.  I just want to know your real name.  I just want to make sure that you are indeed a neutral person and not a known ARMA hater who has found a new way to vandalize the ARMA article.  After all, you have not shown any interest in any other articles on Wikipedia. So, why hide?  Who are you?  Do you belong to another WMA group? Ranp 14:46, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Ranp, do calm down a little bit, this is not a competition or a schoolyard brawl. There are some problems of style and bias with this article, and we can all work together to resolve them amicably and according to Wikipedia policy. There is really no need to get personal and classify people as "ARMA haters". Saying this article reads like an advertisement does not necessarily imply that we are looking at a marketing stunt. It seems far more likely that it was simply written by overly enthusiastic members. It just needs to be toned down a little bit for encyclopedic tone and neutrality. As you say yourself, ARMA doesn't need to be touted on Wikipedia, and a detached and no-nonsense article would be much more to the society's credit than a fawning piece of adulation. dab (𒁳) 08:07, 20 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I do assure you that I am always very calm, even when dealing with the "ARMA haters" who like to vandalize this article I am always very calm. I classified the person in question as an "ARMA hater" because their goal is not to improve the article but to have it removed.  You may also note that that person has made no other contrubutions to Wikipedia except for a small edit to an SCA article.Ranp 15:39, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
 * well, my intention is certainly to improve this article. Your removal of sourced criticism is not acceptable. This is harsh criticism published in notable publications. You get to cite JC's retort ("I'm a lightening rod"), but you don't get to just delete it (or to just cite the retort without making clear what it is referring to). dab (𒁳) 19:55, 20 July 2007 (UTC)