Talk:Association of American Medical Colleges

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Zltm8693.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 14:53, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed
Prior content in this duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: http://www.aamc.org/. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.)

For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, and, if allowed under fair use, may copy sentences and phrases, provided they are included in quotation marks and referenced properly. The material may also be rewritten, providing it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Therefore, such paraphrased portions must provide their source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Drchriswilliams (talk) 06:56, 2 November 2015 (UTC)
 * More investigation could be done but at a glance I think this 26 September 2015 version has no copyright violation.  Blue Rasberry   (talk)  20:50, 3 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, the simplest way forward here would appear to be to revert the article to a version before the sequence of edits on 3 November text which have introduced sections of text that were lifted directly from the AAMC website. Drchriswilliams (talk) 20:55, 3 November 2015 (UTC)

Copyright violation notice
How do I fix this? The information is directly from the AAMC website. I am using information that is facts from the main source. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zltm8693 (talk • contribs) 20:32, 3 November 2015‎ (UTC)
 * The copyright holder of the text may apply a free license to it. I would help. The outline of what to do is posted at Commons:Commons:Email templates. It seems like you are not the copyright holder, but in some way I would assist if you said more about what you are trying to do. What is your goal here?  Blue Rasberry   (talk)  20:45, 3 November 2015 (UTC)
 * The problem is that you are using wording that is almost an exact match to the wording in the website. Even though a few words a different, this type of writing, known as close paraphrase is an infringement of their copyright. Since Wikipedia cannot use copyright material, this cannot remain in the article. Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 21:24, 3 November 2015 (UTC)
 * As per the suggestion by Bluerasberry (in the section above), I have reverted the article to before all of the edits that occurred recently. This means that is possible for anyone to begin to add material to the page again. Please take this opportunity to familiarise yourself with Copyrights and do not continue to lift whole sections of material from other websites. Drchriswilliams (talk) 22:04, 3 November 2015 (UTC)

Proposed merge with National Resident Matching Program
This is now run by the Association Rathfelder (talk) 10:51, 3 July 2017 (UTC)
 * The NRMP is a separate organization. At one point in the past the AAMC was the technology partner who implemented the code that ran the match, but that is no longer the case. See http://www.nrmp.org/faq-questions/new-nrmp-id/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.133.66.6 (talk) 19:03, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Closing, given the uncotested opposition and no support. Klbrain (talk) 09:21, 4 November 2018 (UTC)

Page Update - Conflict of Interest Avoidance
Having not had response from first editor, I am restoring edit flag to continue discussion on appropriate changes Arlington9 (talk) 15:37, 27 June 2019 (UTC)

Readers of Wikipedia's page on the AAMC would benefit from additional information. Recent factual additions were reverted due to concern about conflict of interest; the most important simple edits include:

Identifying or Clarifying AAMC’s Membership:


 * Represents MD-granting programs in the USA and Canada (as opposed to Osteopathic programs, see Comparison of MD and DO in the United States)
 * Represent many teaching hospitals in the United States and Canada.
 * The AAMC publishes their latest membership numbers and details on their about page.

In ‘See Also’ section, readers of this page may be interested in these related groups:


 * Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education
 * American Association of Colleges of Osteopathic Medicine
 * American Medical Association
 * Liaison Committee on Medical Education

Thank you Arlington9 (talk) 21:46, 18 June 2019 (UTC)

Reply 18-JUN-2019
Regards, Spintendo  04:10, 19 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your request. The information that you wish to add to the article (as it is presented here) might raise some questions on the part of readers of the article, namely, the nature of the "representation" that is claimed in the text of the proposal. The information as it stands does not delineate what that representation entails. Thus, a reader of the article who sees that AAMC "represents many teaching hospitals in the United States and Canada" might wonder how and in what way this representation is effected. Also, the claim "many teaching hospitals" is imprecise, as it leaves open the question of whether this amount numbers five or five thousand facilities.
 * The proposed See also section does not contain WikiLinks, which are essential in providing the "see" part of the See also section.

Request 20-JUN-2019
glad to discuss appropriate clarity, I was trying to stay simple (and uncontroversial):

Regarding representation, a more detailed description might be that the Association of American Medical Colleges (AAMC) 'represents the interests of medical schools and teaching hospitals to policymakers and thought leaders.' Or perhaps 'represents the interests of the academic medicine community...'

Different language may be found on the official 'about' page:.

AAMC members are institutions, not individuals.

At this time, the AAMC membership consists of:
 * All 154 accredited allopathic medical schools in the United States and 17 in Canada
 * About 400 teaching hospitals and health systems
 * More than 80 academic societies

Sorry for omitting my See Also links:
 * Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education
 * American Association of Colleges of Osteopathic Medicine
 * American Medical Association
 * Liaison Committee on Medical Education

Is there anything else that would be helpful?

Arlington9 (talk) 19:31, 20 June 2019 (UTC)

Reply 27-JUN-2019
Regards, Spintendo  16:04, 27 June 2019 (UTC)
 * 1) ✅ The See also section was added.
 * 2) ❌ The remainder of the request was not implemented because the verbatim proposed text was not included.

Request 28-JUN-2019
Hi again Thank you for adding the See Also links. Below is a possible full-text for discussed edits, changes are in bold. The plain text already exists on Wikipedia and is not impacted. I propose adding the AAMC acronym to the text for clarity.

The Association of American Medical Colleges (AAMC) is a not-for-profit organization based in Washington, DC, and established in 1876. The organization represents the interests of medical schools and teaching hospitals to policy makers and thought leaders in the United States and Canada.

As of June 2019, the AAMC's institutional members included:


 * All 154 accredited allopathic medical schools in the United States and 17 in Canada 


 * About 400 teaching hospitals and health systems


 * More than 80 academic societies

The AAMC administers the Medical College Admission Test and operates [...]

Arlington9 (talk) 20:33, 28 June 2019 (UTC)

Reply 05-JUL-2019
The ref tags should be placed immediately after the information appears in the text. Currently, you have one of them placed before the information is displayed. Also, the ref tags you have provided are to bare URL's. Currently, the article has an unclear citation style, with two different styles being used. But neither of those styles use bare URL's. The article should choose one citation style, which means your proposal should include changing all the references to use only one particular style. Regards, Spintendo  18:17, 5 July 2019 (UTC)

Request 07-JUL-2019
I ran the citations through Wikipedia's citation building tool, is this suitable? The citation for the membership list seems awkward at the end of the 3rd bullet (what I think you referenced in "citation after text"), and what I see elsewhere on Wikipedia usually has the citation at he start of a list. However, I defer to your interpretation. Full proposed text appears below:

The Association of American Medical Colleges (AAMC) is a not-for-profit organization based in Washington, DC, and established in 1876. The organization represents the interests of medical schools and teaching hospitals to policy makers and thought leaders in the United States and Canada. As of June 2019, AAMC institutional members included:


 * All 154 accredited allopathic medical schools in the United States and 17 in Canada
 * About 400 teaching hospitals and health systems
 * More than 80 academic societies

The AAMC administers the Medical College Admission Test and operates the American Medical College Application Service and the Electronic Residency Application Service which facilitate students applying to medical schools and residency programs.

Since 2006, the president has been Darrell Kirch. David J. Skorton, secretary of the Smithsonian Institution, was selected as the next president and CEO effective July 15, 2019.

Past papers of the association are held at the National Library of Medicine. The AAMC publishes the journal Academic Medicine.

Arlington9 (talk) 18:38, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

Reply 09-JUL-2019
What I meant was that the reference for the item was placed incorrectly. Your original request: As of June 2019, the AAMC's institutional members included:
 * All 154 accredited allopathic medical schools in the United States and 17 in Canada
 * About 400 teaching hospitals and health systems
 * More than 80 academic societies Note the position of the ref tag (boxed above in red) placed after the partial sentence "As of June 2019, the AAMC's institutional members included:" What that means is that you've indicated that the reference is verifying that in 2019 the AAMC's institutional members included ____. (Period, end of sentence, nothing else included.) The question then becomes, included what? Included people? Included furniture? No one can say, because the information about what was included is placed after the ref tag (which is outside the ref tag's purview). As a rule, partial sentences at the beginning of a list should never contain ref tags, because more likely than not, the important information — such as which organizations were institutional members — will be left outside the purview of the ref tag. It's important to remember that when it comes to ref tag placement, location is everything. Regards, Spintendo  20:22, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

Request 15-JUL-2019
I understand the problem now, though as a relative newcomer to Wikipedia I am unclear what you are looking for as a suitable solution. Citations at the end of each bullet? Or would sentences work better, along the lines of below. New leadership started today, so other edits to text to update for that:

The Association of American Medical Colleges (AAMC) is a not-for-profit organization based in Washington, DC, and established in 1876. The organization represents the interests of medical schools and teaching hospitals to policy makers and thought leaders in the United States and Canada.

All 154 accredited allopathic medical schools in the United States and 17 in Canada are members of the AAMC. About about 400 teaching hospitals or health systems, and more than More than 80 academic societies, are also members.

The AAMC administers the Medical College Admission Test and operates the American Medical College Application Service and the Electronic Residency Application Service which facilitate students applying to medical schools and residency programs.

David J. Skorton, the former Secretary of the Smithsonian Institution, became the AAMC's president and CEO on July 15, 2019. His predecessor, Darrell Kirch, had served since 2006.

Past papers of the association are held at the National Library of Medicine. The AAMC publishes the journal Academic Medicine.

Thanks, please help me better understand if this isn't what you want. Arlington9 (talk) 21:05, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

Reply 16-JUL-2019
The sentences work perfectly, thank you for writing them. The only unreferenced information that remains is the following, underlined below in red:"The Association of American Medical Colleges (AAMC) is a not-for-profit organization based in Washington, DC, and established in 1876. The organization represents the interests of medical schools and teaching hospitals to policy makers and thought leaders in the United States and Canada. All 154 accredited allopathic medical schools in the United States and 17 in Canada are members of the AAMC. About about 400 teaching hospitals or health systems, and more than More than 80 academic societies, are also members. The AAMC administers the Medical College Admission Test and operates the American Medical College Application Service and the Electronic Residency Application Service which facilitate students applying to medical schools and residency programs. David J. Skorton, the former Secretary of the Smithsonian Institution, became the AAMC's president and CEO on July 15, 2019. His predecessor, Darrell Kirch, had served since 2006. Past papers of the association are held at the National Library of Medicine. The AAMC publishes the journal Academic Medicine."Regards, Spintendo  06:41, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

Request 16-JUL-2019
Restoring due to no response from editor (7/22/19) Arlington9 (talk) 18:09, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

Added possible citations for these statements, see below. This seemed like the right way to do it, per standards. If not, should all three citations be grouped at the end of the sentence?

The Association of American Medical Colleges (AAMC) is a not-for-profit organization based in Washington, DC, and established in 1876. The organization represents the interests of medical schools and teaching hospitals to policy makers and thought leaders in the United States and Canada.

All 154 accredited allopathic medical schools in the United States and 17 in Canada are members of the AAMC. About about 400 teaching hospitals or health systems, and more than More than 80 academic societies, are also members.

The AAMC administers the Medical College Admission Test and operates the American Medical College Application Service and the Electronic Residency Application Service which facilitate students applying to medical schools and residency programs.

David J. Skorton, the former Secretary of the Smithsonian Institution, became the AAMC's president and CEO on July 15, 2019. His predecessor, Darrell Kirch, had served since 2006.

The AAMC publishes the journal Academic Medicine. Past papers of the association are held at the National Library of Medicine.

Thanks again! Arlington9 (talk) 18:04, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

Reply 23-JUL-2019

 * 1) ✅ The main items in the proposal were implemented. Thank you for providing the sources. For future reference, please remember to provide author and date information with citation templates.
 * 2) ❌ The line The organization represents the interests of medical schools and teaching hospitals to policy makers and thought leaders in the United States and Canada. was not added as the phrase is too broad in scope (i.e., "represent the interests of" being medical? Legal? Personnel? Represents them how?) Also, the term thought leaders is not defined.
 * 3) ❌ The position of president emeritus was not added to the infobox, as it was not referenced. Notably, neither the Lefrak source nor the Finnegan source which both mention Kirch's leaving the president position do not mention the position of president emeritus being assumed.

Regards, Spintendo  11:27, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
 * The primary sources maintenance template was removed.

Paid editing
for discussion here

I don't understand - looking here there are alot of editing requests. The article looks good - I made a couple edits to clean it up. Can't the flag be removed? If not, I'm happy to keep editing so let me know what else needs changed.JBJ1988 (talk) 15:57, 11 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Removing flag, no response to discussion. content on page seems appropriate JBJ1988 (talk) 19:32, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Edit requests by a disclosed paid editor stopped in 2019. Since 12 March 2020‎, editing was taken over by accounts from a large-scale undisclosed paid editing operation (KotaN05, Indigobones). They also edit as IPs using proxies (e.g. 73.209.206.106). A significant amount of anonynous edits since 12 March 2020 are also performed by the same actor. The article needs a review for neutrality, due weight, significant omissions, and other issues common with undisclosed paid editing. I have reinstated the tag. MarioGom (talk) 20:25, 29 August 2021 (UTC)