Talk:Association of Chartered Certified Accountants/Archives/2013

Promo?
Useful information, but the promotional style has to be removed.

80.41.172.126 09:09, 9 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Lacks NPOV or encyclopaedia style. Examples:
 * 'ACCA's innovative partnership with Oxford Brookes University allows ACCA students to...'
 * 'Whether you wish to start a career in finance, gain recognition for the wealth of skills and experience you have already achieved, or want accelerated progression to the ACCA Professional Scheme and a more senior position in accountancy, ACCA's Certified Accounting Technician (CAT) Scheme will help you towards your career of choice.'
 * Content apparently taken from http://www.accaglobal.com/prospectivestudents/accountingtechnician/ and therefore not GFDL.
 * Cedders 18:49, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Attempted to remove the promotional style. Further information on the body and qualifications is now required.


 * Terenus 00:10, 12 April 2006 (BST)

Style is still very promotional, and the exact specifics of recognition in many different countries are not really required (other than the largest ones). On the other hand, the article lacks detail on the history and traditions of ACCA and why it is distinct from accounting bodies like ICAEW. Psnae 01:56, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Some consolidation and summarization done. Psnae 05:42, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Agree about the promotional style but recognition is necessary information and very useful.Lm 997 (talk) 11:54, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

Mutual Recognition Directive
ACCAs do not have automatic access to ICAEW or ICAS under the MRD as these accounting bodies are based in the same country (UK). ICAEW has a direct entry route for ACCAs: Details  Psnae 01:59, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

ACCA & CPA Australia
In reference to the comment: "But currently CPA Australia (CPAA) has pursued the mutual recognition negotiation with ACCA." Is there any reference for this? Psnae 02:35, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

This article is NOT about promoting ACCA
This article is about facts rather than opinions about ACCA. Promotional material, such as the discussion about "ACCA Global Reputation" does not belong on Wikipedia. Psnae 18:55, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

International Recognition
In order to keep the article to a manageable size, it really is not necessary to have details about each and every country in which ACCA is recognised, other than a brief mention. And the details on Russia and the PRC are promotional, there is no mutual recogition or joint scheme in place. Psnae 18:59, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Fellowship
Fellow members of ACCA are still known as Chartered Certified Accountant, there is no such title as Fellow Chartered Certified Accountant. Psnae 13:24, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

I have asked ACCA regarding the details of membership title, they told me that the title of "ACCA" belongs to the Associate Chartered Certified Accountant or just called Chartered Certified Accountant. And the title of FCCA means Fellow Chartered Certified Accountant. This is general practise which is according to ICAEW and other major accountancy organization worldirde.

Lewislams 1:53, 21 August 2006 (UTC)


 * It's true in a sense that FCCA stands for Fellow of the Association of Chartered Certified Accountants, like ACCA stands for Associate of the Association of Chartered Certified Accountants.  But the generic designation of Chartered Certified Accountant is the same for both Fellows and Associates.   Psnae 03:57, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

According to the membership titles of ICAEW and other major accountancy organization worldirde, the ACA means Associate Chartered Accountant, FCA belongs to Fellow Chartered Accountant, and CA means Chartered Accountant, so there is also the general practise that can apply on ACCA's membership title. Moreover, according to the reply by ACCA, ACCA membership titles are truely meaining that: The title of ACCA belongs to the Associate Chartered Certified Accountant or just called Chartered Certified Accountant. And the title of FCCA means Fellow Chartered Certified Accountant. Lewislams 15:28, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, but this is not correct. From the ACCA Rulebook, in section 2(c) of the Bye-laws (Second Schedule to the Royal Charter) it makes it clear that the designation is the same for Fellows and Associates: "Every member may denote his membership of the Association by the use of the professional designations Chartered Certified Accountant or Certified Accountant and/or the designatory letters FCCA in the case of Fellows and ACCA in the case of Members."

and an extract from the Members Regulations: "A member who was admitted to membership on or after 1 January 2005 and has been a Member of the Association for a continuous period of five years shall automatically advance to fellowship, and be a Fellow, of the Association and may denote his fellowship of the Association by the use of the professional designation Chartered Certified Accountant or Certified Accountant and/or the designatory letters FCCA" Psnae 03:22, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Chinese university recognition
A training agreement with a Chinese university to promote ACCA to students is not a "global partnership" Psnae 04:30, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

New Zealand
NZICA unilaterally terminated mutual recognition with ACCA. What replaced this is not "mutual recogition" but at best a limited form of advanced standing. Effectively, ACCA is no longer recognised in New Zealand. Psnae 20:03, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

But ACCA qualification is still recognised in New Zealand legislation for registration to perform statutory audit work. ACCA is gazetted under the relevant act (Under Section 199 of the Companies Act 1993: Qualifications of Auditors) in New Zealand. An ACCA member can practice as long as they hold an ACCA public practice certificate (with audit qualification) in their country of origin. In effective, ACCA is still recognised in New Zealand.

FrankL906 2:41, 21 August 2006 (UTC)


 * But not recognised by NZICA, which is most important.  Even with practising rights, an ACCA member trying to practice in NZ without NZICA membership is at a serious professional disadvantage.   Same goes for those seeking employment, most NZ employers (other than the largest ones) won't know much about non-NZ or Australian designations.    However I accept that the term is too strong, so will change to no longer fully recognised in New Zealand.   Psnae 03:52, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

However, ACCA members can legally open the accountancy firm to provide the practising services and legally sign the audit reports in New Zealand, so you can't say ACCA is no longer fully recognised. We should say ACCA is statutory recognised in New Zealand but ACCA is not fully recognised by NZICA. FrankL906 14:41, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Proposed merger : Chartered Certified Accountant
A separate article entitled Chartered Certified Accountant has been recently created. As Chartered Certified Accountant is the title of a member of the ACCA (and only of the ACCA) there is very little, if any, material that could be applicable to one article and not the other. THJames 20:53, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

OBJECTION for proposed merger : Chartered Certified Accountant

According to the general practises of Wikipedia, there are many seperated articles between the professional organizations and their own qualifications, such as CFA Institute and Chartered Financial Analyst (CFA) qualification, or Institute of Management Accountants (IMA) and Certified Management Accountant (CMA) qualification.

Moreover, Chartered Certified Accountant is one of specific and popular accountant title in this world and also belongs to one of common name of accountancy firm (Chartered Certified Accountant Firm or CCA Firm) in United Kingdom and some commonwealth countries, such as CPA firm in United States. So it is benefit to reserve the article regarding Chartered Certified Accountant.

Lewislams 1:53, 21 August 2006 (UTC)


 * The difference is that Chartered Certified Accountant is awarded only by ACCA, so it's pointless to have two articles describing what is essentially the same thing.   The article Chartered Certified Accountant should redirect to ACCA.    Certified Management Accountant is a generic title given by different accounting bodies, so merits a (brief) article of its own explaining this.   The same applies to the two CFA articles, they should also merge.  Psnae 03:55, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

So how about CFA Institute and Chartered Financial Analyst? Actually, I think there is no matter to seperate these two articles in Wikipedia. FrankL906 14:50, 21 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Yup. The article Chartered Certified Accountant belongs to one of specific statutory accountancy qualification in United Kingdom and some commonwealth countries, but the article "ACCA" belongs to the whole association of ACCA. Therefore, it is benefit to reserve the article regarding Chartered Certified Accountant.

Lewislams 15:11, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Moreover, the articles Certified General Accountant and Certified General Accountants Association of Canada (CGA-Canada) also are seperated, accompany with the case of CFA Institute and Chartered Financial Analyst, so they point out that seperated articles between the professional organizations and their own qualifications that is the general practises of Wikipedia.

Lewislams 15:19, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Actually, it is NOT a good proposal to merge the association and the specific qualification to be one. As you know, Chartered Certified Accountant is just one of qualification offered by ACCA, anothers are Certified Accounting Technician, Diploma in Financial Management (DipFM), Diploma in International Financial Reporting...etc. However, Chartered Certified Accountant is the statutory accountancy qualification in United Kingdom, Ireland, all EU countries, Australia, New Zealand, Canada(For auditing government institutions), Zimbabwe, and some commonwealth countries, it is the specific object(qualification) that is different to the whole association of ACCA. Therefore, reserving the specific article for Chartered Certified Accountant is benefit to all readers in Wikipedia.

As same with chartered accountant, Chartered Certified Accountant is the term protected by statutory laws in United Kingdom, Ireland and some commonwealth countries. Therefore, it is the specific meaningness to reserve the article of Chartered Certified Accountant for this purpose.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 219.76.157.19 (talk • contribs). ,

If the article Chartered Certified Accountant is to be retained, it needs to be purged of a lot of duplicate information. Otherwise it looks too much like "ACCA promotion" which is not the role of Wikipedia. Psnae 20:39, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

OBJECTION too

I also think it is benefit to reserve the specific page of Chartered Certified Accountant in Wikipedia, coz Chartered Certified Accountant is one of specific accountancy qualification which is seperate to the whole association of ACCA, and also seperating the articles between professional organizations and their own specific qualifications that is normal practice in Wikipedia, so I object the proposed merger too.

FrankL906 2:30, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

If we are to maintain the separate articles I should like to understand what material could possibly be in one article and not the other. Currently the article "Chartered Certified Accountant" contains only duplicate but slightly reworded material from the other article. I agree that the creation of two articles appears only to be an attempt to gain duplicate space to put forward promotional material. Please could the objector(s) clarify what material would appear in one article only?

THJames 08:42, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

The major duplicated parts between two articles have been deleted, so the problem has been solved.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 218.103.194.50 (talk • contribs). ,

The CCA article in fact only contains material that is duplicated in full in the ACCA article - royal charter, mutual recognition, POV that this is equivalent level qualification etc, albeit with slight changes to the wording.

Merger tags should not be removed until consensus has been reached. I have a suspicion (from the distinctive style of the contributors) that the opposition and deemed resolution to the merger proposal are in fact from the person who created the article, not other Wikipedians.

THJames 19:44, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Many of the wordings and the sentences in CCA are based on different articles including British qualified accountants, ACCA and Accountancy. It just has grouped some meanings regarding CCA qualification from those articles only, so it can help a lot to many readers whose have interests and would like to get the full views on this Chartered Certified Accountant qualification only.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.198.1.7 (talk • contribs). ,

The article of Chartered Certified Accountant is quite concise to recount what's the meaning of the Chartered Certified Accountant qualification, so many people can easily and quickly get the meaning of CCA qualification when they just want to know more on this qualification only. As you know, there are 110000 ACCA holders with 260000 ACCA students, so the influential impact of this Chartered Certified Accountant qualification is quite strong and popular in this current accountancy world. Therefore, many people from anywhere of this world especially US guys that would like to know what is ACCA and her accountancy qualification - Chartered Certified Accountant too.

Well, I think the seperated articles of ACCA and Chartered Certified Accountant would be better because they are the descriptions of different objects. Also, Chartered Certified Accountant is one of statutory title of accountancy in my country, I think it is better to reserve the page of Chartered Certified Accountant in my point of view.

John_Kilo 2:44, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

See section below for comments on the above user identity.

THJames 19:35, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Against. The Association and the credential are different and the Association oversees other programs beyond the CCA program. The Association of CCA also engages in advocacy, continuing professional education and research, so there are separate articles for a reason.

Against. The Association and the Professional are different things. I'm starting to work on the topic on French wikipedia and will need to create two different links. --Diligent 09:27, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

British Overseas Territories
British Overseas Territories do not necessarily operate on UK regulations, so it is not true to suggest ACCA is recognised there without supporting evidence. And recognition of any kind in Bermuda is highly questionable as the Institute of Chartered Accountants of Bermuda is part of the Canadian Institute of Chartered Accountants. Psnae 02:38, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Well, I just can confirm to all that ACCA is statutory recognized in Cayman Island and British Virgin Island subject to the law of both places. About Bermuda, Psnae is right, the accountancy professional is under the regulations of Canadian Institute of Chartered Accountants. However, according to the free trade regulations between UK and her overseas territories, all members of UK RQB bodies (ACCA, ICAEW, ICAS, ICAI & AIA) would have the practising rights in those places including Bermuda.

John_Kilo 2:44, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

I note that there is no registered user with the above account, nor is the above time correct; the history page shows this to be an unsigned comment by 218.103.194.50 at 18.44 UTC 1 September. I would assume again (from the distinctive style and contribution of the user) that this identity is yet another sock puppet of Lewislams, who wrote the original section on which the comments have been made.

THJames 19:33, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

There are no "free trade regulations between UK and her overseas territories". Please cite your facts if you want to be taken seriously. Psnae 03:13, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

CAT Qualification
ACCA has retained the CAT Qualification as part of the suite of awards within Foundations in Accountancy. In order to obtain the CAT Qualification, students will need to complete the following:

FA1, MA1, FA2, MA2, FAB, FFA and FMA two of the three specialist papers a practical experience requirement Foundations in Professionalism. Students completing the CAT Qualification can claim exemption from exams FA1, MA1, FA2 and MA2 based on practical experience. On completion of the CAT Qualification, students may then progress onto the ACCA Qualification if they wish to do so, from F4 onwards. They can also count the four essentials competences and one year's work experience gained to achieve the CAT Qualification towards the three years' work experience and 13 performance objectives required for the ACCA Qualification. --Zahid2005 (talk) 11:40, 21 March 2013 (UTC)