Talk:Astley, Greater Manchester/Archive 1

Peer review
OK, I've had a read through the Astley article and have homed in on a couple of issues that I think need resolving. I have decided to format this as a 2 tier peer review. The first set of suggestions are generated by a semi-automatic javascript program; they might not be applicable for the article in question:
 * Consider adding more links to the article; per Manual of Style (links) and Build the web, create links to relevant articles.[?]
 * This article has no or few images. Please see if there are any free use images that fall under the Image use policy and fit under one of the Image copyright tags that can be uploaded. To upload images on Wikipedia, go to Special:Upload; to upload non-fair use images on the Wikimedia Commons, go to commons:special:upload.[?]
 * Per Wikipedia:Manual of Style (numbers), there should be a non-breaking space -  between a number and the unit of measurement. For example, instead of 3 km, use 3 km, which when you are editing the page, should look like: 3&amp;nbsp;km.[?]
 * Per Wikipedia:Manual of Style (numbers), please spell out source units of measurements in text; for example, the Moon is 380,000 kilometres (240,000 mi) from Earth.[?] Specifically, an example is 33 ha.
 * There are a few occurrences of weasel words in this article- please observe WP:AWT. Certain phrases should specify exactly who supports, considers, believes, etc., such a view.
 * it has been
 * might be weasel words, and should be provided with proper citations (if they already do, or are not weasel terms, please strike this comment).[?]
 * Please ensure that the article has gone through a thorough copyediting so that it exemplifies some of Wikipedia's best work. See also User:Tony1/How to satisfy Criterion 1a.[?]

Here is the second section, which is a summary of my personal thoughts/queries:
 * What would be the consensus as to decribing Astley as a suburb, village or town? Is the present situation?
 * Although I don't think Flickr or Geograph can help, could a static image for the infobox showing the village centre be found? I've never been to Astley and I'm struggling visualising its scale, character and aspect.
 * Astley doesn't really have a "proper" village centre but is quite linear. I'll write something in Geography.....tomorrow --J3Mrs (talk) 22:00, 11 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Is there anything published about Astley in pre-history, Celtic, Roman, Anglo-Saxon, Viking or Norman times? Presently we jump straight to the High Middle Ages.
 * Nope! Yep! But I wrote something --J3Mrs (talk) 22:00, 11 February 2010 (UTC)


 * What precisely does "granted land in Astley to God and St Mary of Cockersand Abbey" mean? Did they dedicate some land to God, Saint Mary and the Abbey, or have I misunderstood?
 * Appaling lack of punctuation, hope it's now clearer


 * Was Astley in the hundred of West Derby? According to VCH there seems to be a connection with the hundred of Warrington?
 * It was and there's a ref for non believers --J3Mrs (talk) 22:00, 11 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Astley,_Greater_Manchester focussess heavily on local dignitaries. Did anything else happen? What was the economic situation? Population size? Land use? Any events (English Civil War, Wars of the Roses, Black Death)?
 * To much of a boring backwater --J3Mrs (talk) 22:00, 11 February 2010 (UTC)


 * In the same section "Astley Hall" makes an appearance out of the blue. Was this an ancient building?
 * It's another name for Damhouse, Doh!


 * Could a bit of context about George Ormerod be given without having to click on the link? "Damhouse but after 1800 it was leased to tenants, one of whom was George Ormerod, an antiquary and expert on the history of Cheshire ...."?
 * Added a bit


 * In Astley,_Greater_Manchester, I'm struggling to comprehend the scale of industrial growth and activity. Examples include the first sentences of the first two paragraphs: both don't quite read properly, and/or give dates for context. Also, being from cotton country, I'm not following some of the coal jargon (sinking, horse gin, headgear, winding house, wound, screens)
 * Changed a bit --J3Mrs (talk) 22:00, 11 February 2010 (UTC)


 * In the same section, the major towns (Stockton, Blackburn) need linking IMHO).
 * did that


 * £24,000 needs a modern conversion (see the edit source of Rochdale Town Hall as an example)
 * Did that, hope it's right


 * What were living and working conditions like during this time period?
 * Have to look for a source


 * The Astley,_Greater_Manchester needs expanding: what is the social class like; the property; any development schemes in the last 30-40 years?
 * I can do this tomorrow

Thats it for now (up until the end of the History section). More pointers are found at WP:UKCITIES. If I was to be pushing this towards GA, I'd be on the hunt (or appealing to User:Parrot of Doom) for some more images. There are some basics that can enhance the article, such as elevation, population size (which is a biggy), public services (just something basic as at Milnrow) and so on.
 * Put in two more images. I'll try and get some more. I cannot find a population figure!!! Astley & Tyldesley are combined in everything I can find :(

I've been intentionally brutal, but hope it is taken in good spirit and helps spice up the article. --Jza84 | Talk  19:20, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Additions
I think I've found some possible sources here about Astley. They may be of use.

Also, I believe this image is of a bridge in, or by Astley. Not sure if it's at all notable. --Jza84 | Talk  13:08, 12 February 2010 (UTC)


 * You've been busy! I have attempted to cite, clarify whatever you have requested. I'm not sure about the bridge. I aim to take some photographs soon, weather permitting. There are a few things I just cannot find a ref for, the schools, they are listed but nowhere does it say how many, should I get rid of it? Likewise "part of Blackmoor is within the 10-20% most deprived neighbourhoods nationally" is what the ref from Wigan says, (I have read nearly the whole of that doc but it does not explain further :- I am looking for post industrial refs but I know what I want to say. I have realised that The Lancashire Coalfield and coal mining generally is not well covered on wikipedia. I had rather hoped there was a glossary. I might think about "Pit Brow Women", but not today. --J3Mrs (talk) 18:10, 12 February 2010 (UTC)I
 * Just been nibbling away at things really. The Geography section was making me lose sleep, and I knew I could contribute to that without local knowledge.


 * This article is a challenge - because it's such a small area it's not well covered online. I think only specialist local history books are going to provide the level of detail that's needed to smash through WP:GAC. But, I'm confident we can still hit it.


 * Some photos would be helpful. They are not, incidently, part of the GA criteria, but I think they would help readers in the longer term. User:Parrot of Doom has taken photographs (professional photographs) of parts of Salford and Worsley so I think he may actually help too if asked nicely. As for the "nationally" query, let's just use that as it appears in the source; User:Nev1 may be able to help with statistical analysis of demographic and economic information though from the 2001 censeus (he's very good). Ofstead (ofstead.com?) will have info about schools in the modern period, and if wigan.gov.uk is any good, it should have documentation about the social and urban development of Astley.


 * The Lancashire Coalfield probably needs an article of its own - it is very much neglected. Rather like the Lancashire Cotton Famine. --Jza84 | Talk  18:20, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I have THE specialist book, it's the Lunn, everything else ever written about Leigh, Atherton and Tyldesley goes back to his 4 books. I'm going to have a go at the photographs, I think I know what I'm looking for and I'm going to take some church pics in nearby Tyldesley soon. I have a copy somewhere of "The Lancashire Cotton Famine in Leigh".--J3Mrs (talk) 18:35, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Question
Is Chaddock Lane Industrial Estate the same as Astley Industrial Park? I have a (cached) website about Astley Industrial Park here. I think it belongs to Peel Holdings. We should be able to find out what companies/industries operate in the park and add this to the Economy section. :) --Jza84 | Talk  18:30, 12 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Also called "Astley Industrial Estate"? --Jza84 | Talk  18:34, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Yes that's the one. Peel Holdings want to build a racecourse on the other side of the East Lancs between Astley & Boothstown. --J3Mrs (talk) 18:37, 12 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Seems like no racecourse. I think Peel Holdings own a tipping site in Astley, but not much more than that.--J3Mrs (talk) 18:43, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Image suggestions
Might we consider:


 * this for the Post Industrial or Landmarks section
 * this for the Transport section (shows two important subjects)
 * or else this for the Transport section (or a culture/post industrial section
 * this for the lead image

...? --Jza84 | Talk  19:01, 15 February 2010 (UTC)