Talk:Athonite Academy

The church a proponent of enlightenment?
I didn't pay any attention to this article until I read it's hook on the main page but the hook isn't only false but also a piece of church propaganda(like the source that is from the junta period, which glorified the church). Every person dealing with modern Greek history knows that the church was the greatest enemy of what is called the enlightenment or should I cite actual quotes of orthodox church officials about Korais?-- — ZjarriRrethues — talk 22:05, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
 * The same monastic community, which supposedly had a leading role according to the hook was the one which, about 60-70 years laters sent a letter, denouncing the revolution in southern Greece as a betrayal and rebellion of freemasons against the protector of the romans.-- — ZjarriRrethues — talk 22:12, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

(unindent) @Zjarri please avoid extreme or deductions. This insistution was a center of the Greek Enlightenment especially under Eugenios Voulgaris a theologian and a major figure of the Greek Enlightenment. You also completely ignore what the Greek Enlightenment was (and all the references) in which several people of the Greek Orthodox church participated.Alexikoua (talk) 22:21, 14 December 2010 (UTC)


 * to inform you Greece in 2003 wasn't under a coup [], (that's the source in which the hook was based).Alexikoua (talk) 22:25, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Alexikoua I'm not interested in making any changes, but I'm commenting only because of a plain and rudimentary sense of respect. The Orthodox Church was the greatest enemy of the enlightenment and that doesn't change because Voulgaris and few others were the exception. Dana Facaros's non-rs travel guide says that, but for my own personal views I will rely on realgeschichte .-- — ZjarriRrethues — talk 22:36, 14 December 2010 (UTC)


 * You gave the answer yourself: Eugenios Voulgaris and a number of theologians that were involved in the Athonite Academy played a major role in the Greek Enlightenment (I can name at least 50 notable progressive theologians of this era). I appreciate you don't initiate an edit war in this article since it will be considered wp:disruption (and I'm sorry but Facaros one of many sources that claim that [] [][][][]in this case is rs).Alexikoua (talk) 22:46, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
 * The edit war would begin after a revert(that would be someone reverting me nd me reverting him), but I'm not interested in the article and only because of rudimentary respect made some comments.-- — ZjarriRrethues — talk 23:11, 14 December 2010 (UTC)


 * It's an interested article which deserves a place in the main page: all sections are fully sourced with no serious objections so far.Alexikoua (talk) 23:17, 14 December 2010 (UTC)


 * The answer to Zjarri's question is simple: like any large organization, the Orthodox Church is not monolithic. Under a common doctrine, you can find anything from surprisingly tolerant and liberal-minded people to bigoted self-righteous fanatics. Show me any religion or ideology where that is not the case... The fact is that many churchmen played a role in the modern Greek intellectual revival, just as the church was a very great contributor to hellenization and education up to the end of the Ottoman Empire. Another fact is that the church leadership was largely conservative and reactionary, but that does not negate the first fact, plus one should take into account the main reasons for its later stance towards the Greek Revolution, i.e. that the Church leadership was under close Ottoman supervision, and that after the French Revolution and some of the more horrible things that happened then, many people throughout Europe turned reactionary. Not to mention that nationalism threatened (and finally indeed destroyed) the Patriarchate's claims to truly ecumenical authority. Constantine  ✍  21:33, 16 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Off course this [] reveals that the user didnt even bother to read this article (apart from the usual wp:npa violations that I spread propaganda).Alexikoua (talk) 21:51, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

Currently there is nothing in the Modern Greek Enlightenment article as far as the involvement of the clergy. Probably some info should be entered in that article. Besokontrollo (talk) 23:39, 15 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Hello, may I ask how you found out about this article? It seems really strange that a brand new user would know about such an obscure, newly-created article right from the start. Athenean (talk) 00:09, 16 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Yeah, you already asked me that question and I answered here. I followed the contributions of ZjarriRrethues and saw the articles he was involved. I have seen actually ZjarriRrethues in may Albanian articles because I check the history of the article and know the main contributors. I am also familiar with the scripts of wikipedia, as I use them in my organization. Besokontrollo (talk) 04:33, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

@Besokontrollo: you really need to 'read' Modern Greek Enlightenment, to sum up: Eugenios Voulgaris (director of this school), Neophytos Doukas, Kosmas of Aetolia etc were some of the main representatives of this movement. No wonder they were all priests.Alexikoua (talk) 21:13, 16 December 2010 (UTC)