Talk:Atlantic Rowing Race

Solo rowers
It makes no sense to say that Chris Martin was the winner of the solo category when he was disqualified, as indicated later in the report. Chris Martin and Roz Savage were the only male and female solo rowers respectively to take part, both completed the crossing but both were disqualified.

Roz Savege was disqualified from the race on the technical grounds that she failed to pass the finish buoy, while Chris Martin failed to complete the crossing unsupported, being supplied with water and oars to enable him to finish. This is not recomended by the Ocean Rowing Society for ocean crossings.

It would be better just to say that "there were two solo rowers who both completed the crossing" - Neither won or lost!

Geoff2DoThat 21:38, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Needs rewriting
This article needs substantial re-writing. Understandably, as it was obviously written by someone involved with the 2005 Woodvale Events race, it is too heavily slanted towards that race with insufficient history.

1. It is misleading to state earlier in the article that the winners of the pairs division was Spirit of EDF Energy, and then to state that they came second in the final adjusted positions. Spirit of EDF Energy were therefore not the winners of the pairs division, and this should be made clearer.

2. Much of the article is incorrectly written in the present tense.

3. The article title is Atlantic Rowing Race, not the Woodvale Atlantic Rowing Race 2005. It is incorrect to state, as the opening paragraph does, that: the Atlantic Rowing Race is from La Gomera in the Canary Islands to Antigua, is organised by Woodvale Events, and first took place in 1997. The first race in 1997 was from Tenerife to Barbados and was organised by the Challenge Business Limited. There has also been one race organised by the Ocean Rowing Society.

4. Ideally there should be a section on each race from 1997 onwards.

Rather than just tut from the side, if I find the time I shall seek to remedy some of the above issues.

Just a thought for discussion - should this article be scrapped and merged with the article on 'Ocean Rowing'?

wikifellow 5 Oct 06

Re-written 27 Nov 2006
I have made some substantial changes to this article - although I have mostly been adding information rather than deleting existing information.

As it stood, the article only covered the 2005 race, and contained several inaccuracies.

I have corrected the introduction (for example it isn't true to say the the Atlantic Rowing Race is from La Gomera to Antigua - the first race was from Tenerife to Barbados and there have been variations since then).

I have added some detail on the earlier races, although most of the article is still concerned with the 2005 race - but as this is the most recent I think that is fair enough.

Finally I have tidied up some of the detail previous editors have written about the 2005 race: some corrections over race positions (EDF did not win the pairs class and Chris Martin did not win the solo class. If he was disqualified, he did not win. Harsh but fact); and the tense wondered randomly between past, present and future. This is an encyclopedia that reports facts, and all individual race facts are past tense.

All changes made in good faith, but I am pretty confident that the detail is correct. One thing I couldn't find was whether any boats dropped out of the 2003 Woodvale sponsored race - there aren't any easy to find archives summarising the race unlike the first two.

DanByles 15:17, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Finishing order v Final positions 2005 Race
Although the pairs result has been altered to show that EDF Energy crossed the line first, but their final position was second, the article still states that the Winning Fours Team was All Relative, but lower down shows that they were relegated to third, so were not the "winning team" at all.

The article already has paragraphs about Line honours and Final positions. To avoid continuing confusion about the results - I suggest two lists:-

1) Line honours - The order the boats crossed the line

2) Final position - The positions after penalties had been enforced

Quite happy to do this if no-one objects

Arjayay (talk) 09:02, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Have tried to explain Line Honours, Final Positions & penalties without too many lists Arjayay (talk) 16:14, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Copyedit June 2011
Hi all

I have copyedited it and added some refs. Ship names are in italics, however, boat names are not.

Chaosdruid (talk) 14:14, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20130130221625/http://www.atlanticrowingrace.co.uk/ to http://www.atlanticrowingrace.co.uk/


 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20140421085144/http://woodvale-events.com:80/ to http://www.woodvale-events.com/

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External links modified
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I have just modified 8 one external links on Atlantic Rowing Race. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110928025738/http://www.oceanrowing.com/challenge/portrait%20gallery/29.htm to http://www.oceanrowing.com/challenge/portrait%20gallery/29.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110928025759/http://www.oceanrowing.com/Bill%20Godfrey%20and%20Peter%20van%20Kets/profile.htm to http://www.oceanrowing.com/Bill%20Godfrey%20and%20Peter%20van%20Kets/profile.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080918062325/http://www.woodvale-challenge.com:80/Atlantic+Rowing+Race+2009 to http://www.woodvale-challenge.com/Atlantic+Rowing+Race+2009
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100111014311/http://www.atlanticrowingrace09.com:80/teams to http://www.atlanticrowingrace09.com/teams/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081006172407/http://www.woodvale-challenge.com/Atlantic+Rowing+Race+2011 to http://www.woodvale-challenge.com/Atlantic+Rowing+Race+2011
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090417125007/http://www.woodvale-challenge.com:80/Entrants+in+the+Atlantic+Rowing+Race+2011 to http://www.woodvale-challenge.com/Entrants+in+the+Atlantic+Rowing+Race+2011
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20091119034137/http://www.atlanticrowingrace09.com:80/ to http://www.atlanticrowingrace09.com/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060421090313/http://www.oceanrowing.com:80/ to http://www.oceanrowing.com

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Linked tabular data appears improved but contains anomalies
Reading this article, I intended to find a reputable source for the 2022 race results, adding both template and tabular representations. Worldstoughestrow.com now appears the marketing presence of this race, branded as one of two races - PACIFIC and ATLANTIC. The first PACIFIC race is scheduled for June 2023. This site downplays "Talisker Whiskey" as page content. Given the evolution of Atlantic races, the naming of this article seems to provide the right level of detail avoiding an article for every race sponsor or event organizer. It would be desirable to use the official title of each year's race (as sponsored/organized) within the articles results. Talisker Whiskey does not even appear on the worldstoughestrow.com PARTNERS page. On RACE REPORTS there, including 2022, a Talisker Whiskey branded graphic (for "Talisker Made by the Sea" listed as Title Sponsor) is juxtaposed with words "Atlantic Challenge" (representing "Atlantic Campaigns") as Event Organizers. Atlantic Campaigns based in Spain also appears to own the new Pacific race so worldstoughestrow may be a solution to semantic growing pains. Worldstoughestrow.com has historic results for the Atlantic races but as of May 2023 is still not showing 2022 results. I found a page listing some of the 2022 results but can only confirm a "winner" at this page: https://explorersweb.com/rowing-extra-ocean-cats-win-twac-another-atlantic-rower-dips-in/. With boats ranging from solo to 5 person teams and more than half of the teams sized different than the most common 4 person arrangement, it's difficult to comprehend how a 4 person team can be the only winner over teams of 3, 2 and 1 person teams in a timed race powered by human rowing.

In addition to lacking urgency showing results, results on worldstoughestrow.com don't even list the number of rowers. Two teams (2013 and 2017) show an "overall" multi-year time ranking with CROSSING TMEs but lack a rank in their particular year stating "Unplaced" in a column intended for special RECORDS like "Fastest Solo to Row the Atlantic Ocean". Another notation "Assisted" also appearing under RECORDS suggests these boats can receive a placement within their particular year immediately following all other finishers that don't show Assisted, which includes boats both slower and faster than them (see Duchess of the Sea in 2020). Two Assisted boats in 2015 are sequenced after all other boats in that year (how Excel export opened), but their stated POSITION IN THEIR YEAR is based purely on reported CROSSING TIME. It's not clear if CROSSING TIME that year has already been adjusted by some kind of ASSISTED penalty or handicap or whether Assisted is non-results affecting RECORDS information. The boat "Atlantic Answer" in 2015 shows POSITION IN THEIR YEAR of 21 (out of 26) and OVERALL RANK of 169 out 188 finishers (excludes DNFs but not the two UNPLACED that had no rank within their own year). ASSISTED "Atlantic Answer" ranked higher overall than 19 boats across six years (2015, 16, 18, 19, 20 and 21) with slower CROSSING TIMES but nothing to recognize those others as unassisted. In fact, boat "Yorkshire Rows" showing OVERALL RANK of 170 immediately behind them indicates "Oldest female team of four to row any Ocean" under RECORDS but finishing 15 hours and 7 minutes slower than an ASSISTED boat (.0073 percent slower NOT .73 percent) (66 Days 13 Hours 55 Mins assisted vs. 67 Days 5 Hours 2 Mins for mature females who likely dropped trau and balance squatted to pee vs. unzipped and unaimed over the side). In summary, its impossible to document even a "winner" in this race without what we hope would be consistent reporting through its event organizers. Hopefully they'll report all boats that started in 2022 before the next Atlantic race starts in Dec 2023.Wclaytong (talk) 22:50, 14 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Also not clear what the tabular table is trying to accomplish below the templated year winners. It suggests some attempt to recognize special crossing times accomplished with crew numbers smaller than the winners in that year.  It also includes unique performances receiving or perhaps holding Guinness Record status based on some stated criterion.  A row with CATEGORY "Traditional Four" shows no other data but may be a place holder beside three other "Traditional" CATEGORY's (Single, Double and Trio) and four additional "Concept" CATEGORY's (Single, Double, Trio and Four). Most winners are Foursomes so leaving one of them blank perhaps anticipates a new record or is as confused as I am interpreting results where the published year over year ones don't even state crew size.  If Wikipedia is to provide value, one might expect explicit notice that a Concept Single crossing in 49 days, 11 hr, 37 min (2016 by Gavan Hennigan) which was neither a Guinness World Record nor that year's "Winner" finished 2 hours and 27 minutes FASTER than a Concept Triple crossing 49 days, 14 hr, 4 min THAT SAME YEAR (2016 crewed by Mike Matson, David Alviar and Brian Krauskopf) which holds or held a Guinness World Record for "A team of Three" ditto all else. If all other things are equal under the term "Concept" wouldn't a Single rower besting the record of Triple rowers in identical seas (wind, temperature, route) at least get some special mention here or with Guinness if not ERASING A TEAM OF THREE AS A WORLD RECORD CATEGORY. If the race derives significant speed from anything other than human rowing, perhaps these results could make sense but I'm forced to look for a solo Atlantic crossing faster than Gavan Hennigan's at Guinness (or elsewhere) AND to find other differentiating factors under some CONCEPT definition not present on the Organizers site for this part of the article to make sense just for 2016.Wclaytong (talk) 23:33, 14 May 2023 (UTC)