Talk:Atlantic cod/Archive 1

Behavior Additions
This page was lacking in info about behavior so I added sections on swimming, feeding, reproduction, and more. Future material can be added in morphology, phylogeny,and evolution, and the page needs more work in areas other than in fishing and fisheries topics. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Andrewkamel (talk • contribs) 03:41, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

North-East Atlantic Cod
I did some major changes in this article since the largest fraction of the Atlantic cod (North-East Atlantic Cod) was not present in the previous version. I also included a graph stating this point in catch terms. After the edits and additions I am however not sure where to place the sentence "The IUCN lists the species as vulnerable." Surely it does seem to apply for the North-West Atlantic Cod, but it is also true in the case of the North-East Atlantic Cod? In that case: Should the North-East Atlantic Cod be separated into two fractions? --Arnejohs 07:00, 2 May 2004 (UTC)

Cannibalism
A new contributor, DagHjermann, has provided some valuable additions concerning the North-East Atlantic cod. The following sentence may however be disputed:
 * The North-East Arctic Cod also shows cannibalistic behaviour, especially when there is little capelin available.

Not because of the cannibalistic behaviour, but rather the linkage to capelin. In Bogstad, B., G.R. Lilly, S. Mehl, Ó.K. Pálsson and G. Stefánsson (1994). Cannibalism and year-class strength in Atlantic cod (Gadus morhua) in Arcto-boreal ecosystems (Barents Sea, Iceland, and eastern Newfoundland). ICES Mar.Sci.Symp. 198, 576-599. the cannibalistic behaviour is verified by stomach analyses covering the time period 1949-1992. The main conclusions of this study are that cannibalism increases with predator length, most prey are less than 40 cm in length and less than 3 years old; cod eat large numbers of the young, especially those of ages 0-2 years. The frequency of occurrence of cannibalism increased with the abundance of juvenile cod (this for the Barents Sea), while there was little support for the hypothesis that the frequency of cannibalism increased when the abundance of capelin, the major prey of cod, was low. The findings of this study have been implemented in the MULTSPEC simulation model used by the Norwegian Institute of Marine Research. Arnejohs 09:59, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Size
Does not grow that large in most circumstances, usually 60-70 cms.

I have changed this to "can grow" BruceMcAdam (talk) 16:55, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Red list
Source regarding Northeast Atlantic cod: --Arnejohs 00:15, 22 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Artsdatabanken is not an official IUCN citation. Does it refer to the legally fished population in Norway's fishing grounds, rather than the north east atlantic as a whole?  Do you have an English translation?  Until we do, I suggest we restore the 'VU' status. http://www.iucnredlist.org/search/details.php/8784/all --Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 19:02, 5 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I restored 'VU' status for species until the article explains more about sub-populations. --Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 19:29, 11 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Not sure what is the issue here, but the Artsdatabanken link specifies four populations: north-east arctic, north sea, and coastal cod on either side of 62°N. The degree of separation between these are a matter of dispute, there is a well-known separation between NEAC and CC, but the separation between CC and NSC is less clear, and the lattitudal divsion is probably pretty arbitrary.  This is all from a Norwegian POV, I suspect the Baltic population should be considered a separate one as well.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.134.28.194 (talk) 13:36, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

North-West Atlantic Cod
This explanation for the NW Atlantic Cod collapse that is "at odds with science" seems to be non-sensical to me - at least the way that it is described here is. This should be either tidied up to make more sense, or deleted. Also, there is very little useful information on the collapse of this stock - there has been plenty written and debated about this over the years, so why nothing in here?. Trevva 09:49, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

This section also includes the following sentence: "Young Atlantic Cod have become the prey in the northwest Atlantic, making recovery extremely slow as they do not spawn until about 7 years of age." There is no citation provided to support the statement that recovery has been delayed due to predation, and this sentence glosses over the numerous theories suggested for the weak or non-existent recovery of the many NW Atlantic cod stocks. In addition, the second half of the sentence ("they do not spawn until about 7 years of age") is not accurate for either Gulf of Maine or Georges Bank cod. These two cod stocks reach sexual maturity at between two and four years of age (see http://www.nefsc.noaa.gov/sos/spsyn/pg/cod/). The cause of the error seems to be in treating the several stocks in the Northwest Atlantic as a homogenous stock - they are not.Shipdriver 00:01, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Someone who knows what they're doing (unlike myself), could you please cite the source below for the statement, "Sexual maturity is attained between ages 2 to 4" in the first paragraph and/or move it to a more relevant spot if you think it should be moved.

O’Brien, L., J. Burnett, and R. K. Mayo. 1993. Maturation of Nineteen Species of Finfish off the Northeast Coast of the United States, 1985-1990. NOAA Tech. Report. NMFS 113, 66 p. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.136.236.207 (talk) 02:13, August 30, 2007 (UTC)

Debbie MacKenzie's explanation is not fundamentally different from the traditional explanation for the failure of NW Atlantic Cod to recover: both essentially posit that the removal of Cod has caused a fundamental shift in the ecosystem. Whether the mechanism is due to trophic cascade or nutrient cycling is unclear and frankly, not as big a difference as the article currently makes it out to be, IMO. Lhopitalified (talk) 05:09, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Two taxoboxes ?
There are 2 taxonomy boxes even though there is only one species. The boxes are almost identical apart from the range (north east versus north west) and the Red List status. They even have the same picture. Should they be merged back into one box at the top of the article, similar to other species? The official IUCN Red List status is 'VU' (vulnerable)  - although I know that some sub-populations are quite plentiful. --Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 19:09, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Done --Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 19:27, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Capture of Atlantic cod 1950-2000
I just wanted to point out that the graph on the right hand side of the paragraph about capture of atlantic cod does not match the numbers stated. The number says 1,343,949 in 1956 when on the graph it shows the number somewhere around 2.5 million. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.57.146.172 (talk) 03:22, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for pointing out this, the explanation is simply that the graph covers the whole Northeast Atlantic stock, while the number presented in the text refers to the North-East Arctic cod stock (in the Barents Sea). This is the major component, but during the 50-ies the catch from other Northeast Atlantic populations was considerable. The text has been updated to reflect this. --Arnejohs 22:24, 9 November 2007 (UTC)


 * There is another problem with this graph in my opinion. Catches of cod on the Grand Banks of Canada, which are part of the North Western Atlantic, peaked at 800 000 tonnes in 1968 before declining dramatically. However the graph shows a catch of well less than 800 000 tonnes for 1968 and no peak for that year.194.81.80.52 (talk) 13:11, 20 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, you are right and I was wrong. Unfortunately I was mixing the catch of Europeans by European species when uploading the FAO data. The error is now corrected and the changes are substantial. I can nothing but apologise for the error I brought to this article. Thank you very much for pointing out the error. --Arnejohs (talk) 14:09, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

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Northeast Atlantic cod stock and catch data
Hi, I'm a bit puzzled by the first two sentences in section Atlantic cod. They state that the stock of northeast Arctic cods reached a minimum of 118,000 tons in 1987 but the catch has never been less then 212,000 t per year (in the post-WWII era I guess), and rates didn't even reach the bottom until 1990. And meanwhile these fish do not mature until the age of 8, according to section Adults. As a complete newbie in the area, I wonder if they really reproduce and grow that quickly. Do they? Or does the second sentence relate to NE Atlantic cod in general? The stock data also appears to contradict the chart (File:NEAcodBiomass.png) on the right-hand side of the page which suggests minimum stock of over 700,000 tons in 1983 instead of 1987. Kmiki87 (talk) 10:40, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

New Edit
Hello! You did a great job overall with your addition to the Atlantic Cod. You provided interesting and a vast array of information. I liked your organization of your parts, and you kept the sections short so that readers would be able to find what they needed. I made a few changes (grammatical and word choices) and added some hyperlinks. I would have liked to see more information under predation. If they are considered a major predator, more information is needed to show proof of this. In addition, be careful with the length of your sentences. You had a good number of sentences that were run-on and lengthy. These sentences provided significant information, so just heed to being clear and concise.

Some things to consider/what I changed:

•	The sentence, “Generally, shoals are through to be relatively leaderless…” is a run-on. I changed the sentence to “Shoals are generally….”, but there are still too many “ands”.

•	“Research has revealed that juvenile cod make substrate decisions based on risk of predation” is not very clear (only gets clear when you keep reading), maybe define substrate decisions before moving on?

•	You repeated information about substrate decisions and that juvenile substrates prefer finer grained substrates. Be careful and try not to be redundant!

•	I changed the title “As Predators” to “Predation”

•	Added hyperlinks: Respirometry, decapods, spawning, lekking,

Overall, great article! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gseehra123 (talk • contribs) 00:13, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

Another edit
Good job on your page! I like how the behavior section is cut into small, manageable topics. Most of the wording is on the jargon-y side and it would help to change some vocabulary to make it more accessible to the lay reader. There also isn't very much context sometimes which can be confusing (more below). I added some links and changed a couple of words. More specific comments: Wenamy (talk) 02:00, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Not sure what "status" refers to in the shoaling subsection, does it mean social status?
 * Define scouts in the context of the shoal
 * Does "substrate decisions" refer to decisions about feeding or just where the juvenile wants to be?
 * Interstitial is a bit too obscure, use a more common word
 * Too little context in the "as predators" section
 * "physiological status quo" is confusing, would "homeostasis" make more sense?
 * What is "fishery manipulation of cod"?
 * "1-2 month spawning seasons annually" is confusing. Is there only one spawning season a year that is 1 to 2 months long? Or multiple spawning seasons?
 * The phrase "population limit" in the predation section is ambiguous
 * Explain what a ventral mount is

Third Peer Edit
I really liked this article. Its sections were short enough to hold the reader's attention, the writing was for the most part clear and the depth of the information was good. However, like the other reviewers, there are some things I would work on:

1. Some sentences are a bit awkward in their phrasing. I removed the passive voice in the introduction ("sexual maturity is attained" vs "the cod attains sexual maturity") and made some more sentences a bit clearer.

2. Even though the article is for the most part very well-written, there is some specialized terminology like "substrate decision" and "sperm competition" that would confuse a lay reader. I would explain these in more colloquial terms.

In addition, I added a few hyperlinks. Overall though this is an excellent start and a great addition.Solon5g93 (talk) 03:11, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

Cod Swim Speed
The cod swim speeds are almost certainly wrong, the max speed of 54 cm/s corresponds to just over 1 mph. Converting cm/s to m/s seems closer, but 54 m/s is quite fast. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.72.142.34 (talk) 00:19, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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Distribution map distortion
Just to point out that the map showing cod distribution has a particularly poor mapping projection - it makes it look as if the areas of cod are as large as the continent of Africa, for example, c.f., the size of Greenland. The projection is contrary to one of the main purposes of the map, seems to me. Perhaps a map with a more accurate depiction of area is in order? Bdushaw (talk) 16:28, 4 August 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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