Talk:Atlantis Paradise Island

Atlantis the Palms
Shouldn't the title be Atlantis Resort and Casino not Atlantis Paradise Island? Veritas e Aequitas (talk) 15:13, 28 January 2011 (UTC)Veritas e Aequitas Should the Atlantis, The Palm resort in Dubai be mentioned here as it was modelled after Atlantis (Paradise Island)? Aamackie (talk) 20:29, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Can you provide a source which we could use to reference it? --Elonka 20:50, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
 * The new resort is just a sister resort. In the Disneyland article, they don't mention that Orlando's Magic Kingdom was modeled after the park, do they? It's unnecessary for now.  Leo- Roy!  review/gb 00:16, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Pictures?
Some pictures would REALLY help this article. Descriptions are great and all, but this place has to be seen.

--I am Kiwi 00:08, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Done. Move them around as you wish. Jp498 02:52, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

(thank you below) -I am Kiwi 05:42, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

I hope I helped this article by adding the new information?

Just a bit of editing to reduce correct information and grammar, remove awkward phrasing, add links, and improve professiona. appearance and helped pair pictures with sub-topics. - --I am Kiwi 00:08, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

SPAM
Dear editor from Quebec with IP 70.81.136.211 -

No one is allowed to use Wiki as a sales promotion tool as you have seemingly done this week in the Atlantis Paradise Island article. The words, the ones I edited out earlier this week, sounded like they came off a condo marketing sales brochure for the new island complex being built. Such NPOV posting is not allowed. Wikipedia articles are to be encyclopedic in nature - [unbiased]] and objective with a neutrally expressed point of view.

If you continue to post such NPOV material, your editing priveleges could be disrupted. Here's a better explanation of Wikipedia policy on Spam ->

'''Wikipedia is not an advertising service. Promotional articles about yourself, your friends, your company or products; or articles created as part of a marketing or promotional campaign, may be deleted in accordance with our deletion policies. For more information, see Spam.''' -I am Kiwi 14:12, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

I think you meant to say "non-NPOV material is not allowed." NPOV means "neutral point of view" and that's actually what we want. 206.169.113.169 (talk) 18:28, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Proposal to merge page and redirect
I am seriously thinking that this article should be merged to Paradise Island with a redirect from here since Atlantis is a company involved in commercial development of the island. It seems this article would be better showcased within the other article. The other article is by no means too long and would be enhanced by the material here.

I am opening this for discussion and will take it to the proper Administrative page (as soon as I figure out how to find it).

Thank you -I am Kiwi 14:12, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
 * When I was there a few years ago, this hotel really dominated the island. I can only imagine that it's even huger now. So, I think it's reasonable for the hotel to have its own article, but I definitely think it could be condensed further. I don't really think we need to know where every bar and lounge is. FreplySpang 23:55, 18 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Hello, FreplySpang. It's great that you have first hand experience at at this island resort.  I thoroughly agree with you about the unnecessary listing of (seemingly) every bar and lounge :o).  I cringe everytime I read the blurb about the chef "working his magic"!!   Shall we condense together?  I still don't know where to request a merging, but I now know where the Help Desk is, so that is one step more in learning. --I am Kiwi 05:31, 19 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Spending time thinking about things, learning more about the Atlantis resort, undertanding the nature of the island (apparently more of spit of land in a Nassau harbour, connected to the larger island by two bridges), has been enlightening and thought-provoking.


 * What I have learned it that the rest of the island really is purely incidental to the resort. It always has been since the first hotel and gambling casino went up.  And I learned how the man who last purchased the dilapidated, out-dated old wreck.  After redevelopment and restoration, it is now worth $2 billion.


 * I'm not at all near any personal decisions about anything here. I DO feel that the Island article is relatively poor at this point. And it is mostly a history of resort communites the island had had.  This article is not too long, and could easily incorporate the other.


 * The Island topic is not well titled ("island" is not capitalized) and it would be better served if there was any pre-resort history to access. Or is it relatively identical Nassau?  Who lives there, who works at the resort?  I am going to call the Atlantis Paradise Island resort Monday and will ask them for whatever literature they might have, travel brochures.   I will find out the real low-down as to whether that renowned French chef has really abandoned NYC and all the restaurants he has created for this tiny island. Maybe this is his retirement job.  ;o)   --Green in learning mode 03:12, 21 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Added 10 categories, corrected Nassau link which pointed to disambiguation page. Now goes straight to Nassau island topic page now.  Added descriptors to Nassau disambiguation page entry. Nassau island has a good discussion of area history, etc. --Green in learning mode 04:10, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

TIME TO LOOK IT OVER
Major editing with many additons and more categories. I would ask everyone to look it over and give your response here and we can discuss what it lacks and WHICH NAME SHOULD THIS TOPIC BE CALLED IF WE MERGE. Kiwi--Green in learning mode 05:49, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

For all who have worked on this article
Thanks to all very much for the photos found. A few days ago, an exceptional photo of the hotel was uploaded (do take a peek while you are here) and I am so excited about the entire page. My apologies for not having thanked each individual earlier who has edited here. It is, overall, a lovely and well-written article, and I am not responsible for any of that, having only asked for your help with artwork and ideas. Thank you all again. --I am Kiwi 05:42, 19 October 2006 (UTC)


 * The new upper right photo is an excellent one and shows off the resort well. The article has improved quickly over a couple months. The old down-looking panorama of mine that it replaced could still be valuable to show the water activities/aquarium system. It's still on wikipedia if it might be of use in the future. The remainder of the island isn't the noteworthy destination Atlantis is, so Paradise Island having a lesser page seems accurate and acceptable to me, and is an opinion.
 * Jp498 03:29, 26 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Hey Jason. So nice of you to drop by.  I have rather taken a shine to this article/topic.  I called and now have the email address for the top PR person at the Kerzner Corporation, and so I will be pitching them on releasing a limited number of photos. What is the url of yours, the one that was replaced?  Can you please leave it here, on the talk page?


 * I definitely DO elieve that the island needs its very own topic page completely. I'm hoping that someone can find a history on the island and area -- what native culture preceded the European invasion, who discovered the island (or group of islands), how come so many Africans were brought to the island.  I would like to know about the economy before the arrival resorts.  It needs material about the history of its governments, social polices, allegiances and so much more.  Never mind the other local businessed, agriculture, schools and higher education.  There is so much for eager knowledgable editors to dig their teeth into!


 * I will chop out good deal of what I temporarily imported over (so people could see it and talk about it). What I hope for (wherever on the page it ends up), is just enough of salesmanshp to tease people into clicking through and learning more!


 * As an aside, I have found that the company's name for the resort seems to be simply Atantis, not "Atlantis Paradise Island". This is why I orginally thought that the resort owned the entire island - that there was nothing but the thing named "Atlantis Paradize Island.  It appears Kerzner does have another Atlantis Resort and Casino elsewhere. Saudi Arabia?  If there are (so far) two Atlantis resorts (and who knows about the future), then the other one should rate an article too.  I will ask the PR executive about that, too.


 * I will hold off on beginning any discussion regarding how the names of two resorts be handled. Can't have too much going on all at once.  It seems it should somehow a parallel construction.  Should the name should have a hyphen after Atlantis or have the preposition "at" or "on".  I'll get the full story from the company itself.  My first priority is to strew more links about so we get more traffic.  The more, the merrier. --A green Kiwi in learning mode 05:09, 26 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I think it's probably well known locally where the resort property ends. When I was there in 2003, I walked away from the resort to some of the island shops on the way to the bridge. After getting away from the marina and close to the shops, someone who was clearly not a guest wanted to know if I wanted any weed. I declined, looked around, and figured I must be off the property. Staff are on the lookout for non-guests on property and seem to do good at it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Jp49820030410c-outside.jpg is the panorama. Jp498 00:59, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Photo Sizing
I have resized the photo and used it to replace another photo, also taken from the Royal Towers. I think it looks terrific now!! Thanks! Have any more?? :) --A green Kiwi in learning mode 23:02, 8 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I see someone disliked just how much I had enlarged two of the photos, so I have compromised.  The lobby photo is again large enough to show the mosaic on the wall, et al -- the stuff that turns if from a space with a high ceiling into something beautiful and memorable.   The panaramic photo of irregular shape has again been enlarged - tho not as large as is really needed.   But at least now one can see a bit of DETAIL -- the stuff that keeps the photo from being a bit more than just blobs of color and vague meaningless shapes.   If the photos are meaningless to an article, they should be removed.   Look at articles with HUGE photos -- like Narcissism -- and you will see what I mean.   It is not a sin to have photos large enough to display necessary detail. - Kiwi 03:31, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

I have lots of photos (100+), I just have not uploaded them. I could do that in the next few days and give you the URL. (jp498) 69.39.100.2 19:17, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Thinking about article title
I have discovered that there is no resort called "Atlantis Paradise Island". You do sometimes see the resort demonstrate its location as Atlantis, Paradise Island, Bahamas. Paradise Island is its physical location, part of its address, but it is clear that the title of this article must be changed. Possibilities are nearly endless, but "Atlantis (Paradise Island - Bahamas)" seems a good bet. Discussion? Feedback? --A green Kiwi in learning mode 23:02, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

More images, especially of the excellent aquarium and fishes
I am on a roll uploading images to the commons in the past few days, after my trip to San Francisco and Monterey. I thought perhaps I'll upload some images of Atlantis from a few years back. It seems that this article can really use more images. I am doing that right now. Fred Hsu 21:48, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

OK. There are now almost 40 images of Atlantis at the commons. I added the special commons template (as shown here) to the article. I will also add a few iconic images to the main article directly. Fred Hsu 02:36, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Neutrality
I regard the reverential language as somewhat innapropriate; the article does not appear neutral but more an advertisment. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 88.109.235.212 (talk) 14:22, 3 February 2007 (UTC).

You can help. You can edit out or tone down what you believe are 'reverential' languages. If you feel strongly about it, you can gather more information to provide a balanced view. Normally, people edit articles or add images when they feel passionate about a particular topic. The article looks fine to me. Unless you uncover statistics such as how many people drown in the Predator Pool or similar stuff, I don't see how an article about a resort won't look superficially like advertisement. See Wynn Las Vegas; doesn't it also look like advertisement? Fred Hsu 16:00, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

I couldn't agree more about the aticle lacking a neutral point of view. I think the issues revolve around the lack of a real critism about the resorts impact to the Bahamas. I know that it is a financial boom, but there must be a negative side to having sush wealth in the midst of relative native lack. I would like to see a Bahamian scholar give a view on impact this resort has on the crime, psyche, and morality of the island. Baystate bro 19:02, 9 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I strongly agree that the "article" reads more like a company glossy promotional magazine for the resort. There was a Canadian IP addy that repeatedly was promoting the selling of time shares and had turned it into an ad.  I came along in the fall and spent some time making it much more neutral by removing the excessive promotional hype, but when I dropped by last month or so, I saw that it is worse than ever.


 * Once again, square footage and amentities of various hotels are highlighted, et al.  You can TELL that it is the company's own employees who are "running the show" here.


 * I also strongly agree that any studies that may have been done regarding the resort's impact the people who actually live on the island and those who travel in each shift change.


 * I do love the photos -- and I truly wish someone would deep six that panoramic shot where nothing is truly discernable - only blobs of colour. Surely we have enough other photos of the hotel?  And I want photos of the POOR residential and market parts of town -- where the employees live.


 * How can this article be flagged or something for changes made here to be quickly reviewed and reverted if necessary? I have no idea how that is done.  Perhaps the article should be flagged for NPOV, and advertising?

--Kiwi 06:26, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

New Cove Atlantis photos
I ran across the new Cove Atlantis website and took some images of what the new facilities will look like. I will try to add a few in the Atlantis article in Cove Atlantis section. (note that these are not real photos but 3D made)

Uploaded images:


 * Azure_1.PNG
 * Azure_2.PNG
 * Deluxe_1.PNG
 * Deluxe_2.PNG
 * Penthouse_1.PNG
 * Presidential_1.PNG
 * Sapphire_1.PNG
 * Atlantis_suite_1.PNG
 * Atlantis_suite_2.PNG

Feel free to add them to the article. Pvd21 13:07, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

You can't copy images from random websites and add them to wikipedia. You marked these images with GFDL. Do you own them? Also, Can you please upload images with proper file names, please? Wikipedia has a flat namespace. Naming files with proper names really help a lot. Besides, uploading images to the Wikimedia Commons instead would be even better; images from the common are directly usable in wikipedia sites for all languages. Fred Hsu 21:30, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Aquaventure: "Water jets and escalators propel them to the top" - What does this mean?
While editing the "Aquaventure" section, I found this sentence: "Set to open means riders never have to leave their tubes to go on slides, because water jets and escalators propel them to the top." I deleted it because its wording was unclear, but if anyone could explain in simple terms what this does mean, we can add it back to the article. --DearPrudence 02:55, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

HURRAY for "this sounds like advertisement" banners
HURRAY and a Huge Thank You, Eiyuu Kou

I had no idea such banners were available and I have been (at first) fighting this myself, then repeatedly posting here, hoping to get some interest and consensus that this article was so commercial, SO advertisement, that it purely reeked of "parent company employee-created"

Originally, it was being repeatedly used to promote condo purchases within the resort. Ever since I wrote and called the company PR department, asking for some photos they would be willing to allow to go under the GNU designation, this article has received even heavier attention (tho the photos ARE nice - if rather excessive of theme park stuff).

I used to edit out the "world famous chef" and other stuff, but it always showed back up again. If there was more than me to watch out for this one, it would be great. I don't know who took out all the categories this was linked to - and question if that was appropriate or not as I missed that totally - I don't think it was mentioned in the comment space..

Kiwi 22:42, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

I removed several evidences of advertising and marketing (the new condos especially) found in this article. I don't think hotels should have their own entry on wikipedia unless they're well known for historical reasons. (ex: Hilton in Washington D.C. where Reagan was shot, etc.) I am watching this article to see who will try to add the advertising...and feel free to removed anything else in this article that seems like "non-encyclopedia) material. This article is full of it.--AgnosticPreachersKid (talk) 03:46, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Advertising
Hi Kiwi et al! I wikisurfed my way here basically by accident, and have found myself in complete agreement with some of the comments above. Violations of WP:SOAP are a particular irritation of mine (mostly up to now found in articles about schools - my favourite here - which even prompted me to create a userbox for my own amusement). Anyway, I'll add this article to my watchlist, and if you like when I've got some free time I'd be happy to chip in with copyediting to try to water down the spam...

As for the article title/merger proposals, whilst important they are perhaps secondary to the fact that there is only one reference in the whole article. I'm sure this is nothing you weren't already aware of, but Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, so we can only include stuff that has been written about elsewhere by a respected (ideally neutral, balanced and notable) source; unfortunately this cannot include stuff produced by or for the resort. What we write must be verifiable - this does not mean that we need to back up every sentence, but any facts given should be able to be checked. The lack of references and encyclopedic tone would be seen as justification by some editors to severely cut or even delete the article, although I think it's about a fairly notable subject so that would be rather harsh. To avoid this though, it would be great to get some referenced material in there. As a side benefit, we can lose much of the advertising under this policy too ;)

Re heavy editing by people pushing advertising, have you considered requesting admin intervention to block the IPs for violating WP:SPAM? I can point you in the right direction if you're not sure what to do.

Any comments, get in touch ;) EyeSereneTALK 15:01, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Copyright violation?
I have hacked the Marina Village Restaurants section about a bit, removing the more blatant copyright vios (see here and here for the original text). I'm assuming that these travel agencies didn't crib the text from this section in the first place... ;) To check for this sort of thing, google a phrase from the article (enclosing the phrase in quotes does a search for exact matches) & see what comes up. EyeSereneTALK 10:41, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Balance
To add some balance to this article, what is the consensus about using some reviews (both positive and negative)? I'm not a huge fan of this personally, because it's basically quoting opinions, but this article needs to get away from the travel-brochure POV, and this might be one way to do it. One thing the article does not really do is mention how expensive the resort is ("2 take out ham sandwiches, 2 cokes, and 2 very small bags of Doritos - $37" ). Any ideas? EyeSereneTALK 18:34, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't think a wikipedia article should contain opinion in the main article. Can you find another article on resort centers which does?  But I think it makes sense to mention how expensive things are to give readers some perspective. Fred Hsu 03:41, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree... although, given that most of the article as it currently stands is unsourced, a few sourced statements might be an improvement ;). I don't want to come across as deletionist, but I think that until it begins to comply with both WP:NOTE and WP:VERIFY (not to mention WP:SOAP), the entire article is on rather shaky ground. EyeSereneTALK 09:45, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

the lobby/mosaic image
It says "click here to view mosaic and hieroglyphics" but i fail to find any hieroglyphics in that picture... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.178.57.188 (talk) 07:48, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Ownership???
Can somebody who knows add an ownership section? I thought it was owned by Sol Kerzner, but then I read this article in today's New York Post:

http://nypost.com/2014/10/01/winner-of-revel-auction-plans-to-re-open-bankrupt-ac-casino/

and it seems to indicate that it is owned by the Canadian real estate outfit Brookfield Asset Management.

Thanks in advance to anybody who knows and can add this information/section to the article.Betathetapi545 (talk) 09:13, 2 October 2014 (UTC)

Update the official website link
I represent the company so I won't make the change myself. Official website has changed to http://www.atlantisbahamas.com/ VerbInteractive (talk) 19:34, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Golf Section
I just wanted to let you know that I added a section about the golf course at the Atlantis Paradise Island. Feel free to edit edit and add onto the section. --Aidan721 (talk) 21:39, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

Trump NPOV
I don't know the story, but "[Trump] did not inform Resort stockholders that he was to be paid substantial fees, causing the company's stock to become nearly worthless before Trump took the company private." seems pretty blatantly POV. I'm going to rewrite that line... If nothing else, it either has an owner or owners ("stockholders"), so there's simply no way the owners didn't know that one owner had magically arranged for himself to be paid as an employee and enough to bankrupt the company. That is not only impossible, but prison time, even in the Bahamas! We're not talking common-stock holders either. It's almost the kind of thing where the fiduciary due diligence violations alone would put half those stockholders in prison. So whatever the story is, that isn't it. Anyone know and can tell us without the POV?--Mrcolj (talk) 23:07, 6 February 2017 (UTC)

Lack of citation
In the history section toward the end, there is no reference cited for “ As of July 2014, the property is owned and operated by Brookfield Hospitality. The new ownership has not kept up the property and many of the attractions are in need of repair. The property looks run-down, dirty, and many guests complain of the automatic added gratuity and VAT charge. The employees no longer receive the same benefits and do not receive the gratuity or VAT. ” 104.166.41.60 (talk) 19:08, 20 December 2022 (UTC)