Talk:Attack Retrieve Capture

On the proposed merging of this page with the Hoopy Entertainment page
I disagree that the Attack Retrieve Capture page should be merged as proposed, especially seeing as Hoopy Entertainment is only a redirect to PopCap Games. While it is true that the founders of PopCap Games were the original creators of ARC, merging the pages together would only eradicate historical content of the game ARC, as ARC is no longer supported by either PopCap games or Sierra Entertainment, and has little to do with PopCap's future endeavours. I would leave the ARC page up for historical purposes, since PopCap's page doesn't really have a place for much of the content on the ARC page, and to be fair, nobody in PopCap (or Hoopy, which no longer exists) has supported ARC for the better part of a decade. &mdash; ReaperCharlie (owner of Spark Realm, long-time player of ARC and Spark)


 * Since the merge and link in question is a redirect I am going to remove the merge template from the main page. Govvy (talk) 14:35, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

Clones
Since the problems of cheating in ARC and a number of Denial of Service attacks on the game along with other select few of people writing programs such as godmode, a number of people have tried to write clones of the game.

Since the termination by Sierra, the few thousand community members has dwindled to a few hundred and now play a clone called Spark. Spark was created by a user by the nickname of Remote who completely wrote a new lobby interface client from scratch but at the same time used the same maps and graphics as the original for the game its self. Spark was relaunched under a brand name of Codemallet.
 * Spark (game)
 * Posted 5/27/2020 - Clone that is currently being played Armor Critical

Community
ARC has a very strong and tight knit community, perhaps the reason for its longevity. Some players have played for close to 11 years. The length of time a player has played is somewhat of a status symbol within the community, and players are frequently classified by when they started playing (i.e. if a player started during the WON network era they are referred to as a Wonbie). The community also revolves around clans and leagues. The most dominant clans over the years have been PB: the Pink Bunnies (2 time APL Champions), TBWA: the Tiny Bubbles With Attitude (3 time APL Champions), CO: Clan Ogre (APL Runner Ups), SN: Saucey Nipples (2 time APL Champions), The merger of DeF and CAoT: CaDF: the Confederate ARCing Deadeye Fighters (3 time APL Champions). The oldest clan still active is *Area51* started by Eek in 1997.

Govvy (talk) 12:55, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

Notability
Almost every time, its magazine reviews or features that show that a game is noteworthy. Now with this being an older game, I appreciate it may take some time to check magazine archives. At the moment I can only find user-written reviews on websites, which we can't use. The link to the Gamespot page itself doesn't confer any notability, as anyone can add games to that database. The next issue is with clones and community. I have worked on a lot of articles for games that have a strong community or that have mods/clones, and of course they seek to be represented in the articles. The thing is, this is usually at odds with Wikipedia's verifiability policy which requires that material be attributed to reliable, secondary sources. If journals, magazines or books don't mention this kind of topic, then we don't either.

So, I think we should be checking print magazines for reviews about the same time of ARC's first release ('97, '98); WikiProject Video games/Reference library might be of some help. But there's the possibility that there's simply no coverage of this game so ultimately not suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia. Marasmusine (talk) 14:10, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

The other section queried was "Important People". Going by video game article guidelines, we don't have a seperate "credits" section. Key developers should be mentioned as part of the "history"/"development" section; but again, this needs to be verifiable. Marasmusine (talk) 14:15, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

My edits
Explanation of things I removed:

Due to lack of co-operation from Sierra Entertainment no patch had been released. In a fairly expected turn of events[ref] - A forum post is not a WP:RS:reliable source, and the expected turn thing is original research.

The specials list was removed per WP:GAMECRUFT.

Game maps was deleted by the same guideline, and the WP:OR.

The "important people" one was removed because none of the people on this list are WP:N enough to be listed separately, apart from the error guy, who is already mentioned in the lead paragraph. In other words, they're not important enough.

The Game Clone section was deleted per WP:VG/EL, Inappropriate external links specifically..

The first link wasn't really appropriate because it doesn't have anything to do with the article since the new website does not cover the game. The second link is inappripriate because links to games' pages on commercial networks such as 1UP, Gamespot, etc, are largely kept out out articles to avoid showing favoritism. Eik Corell (talk) 07:52, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree with the removal, as the material was either unverifiable or indiscriminate. Marasmusine (talk) 11:03, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 one external links on Attack Retrieve Capture. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070311120549/http://forums.arc-hq.net:80/viewtopic.php?t=21944 to http://forums.arc-hq.net/viewtopic.php?t=21944
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110723015710/http://forums.arc-hq.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=22361 to http://forums.arc-hq.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=22361
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070903181456/http://www.sierra.com:80/en/home/news/product_news/071607_-_sierra_heritage.html to http://www.sierra.com/en/home/news/product_news/071607_-_sierra_heritage.html

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Merge discussion
Most of the coverage I'm seeing (and which I've added as a reference) indicates that this topic would best be covered as one of TEN's acquisitions or as one of the games that helped start PopCap. It doesn't appear to be notable as a stand-alone game. I'm not sure which is the better target here. --Izno (talk) 05:25, 25 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Sorry, but this game was acquired by Sierra when it brought it from TEN, merge wouldn't be suggested per last ownership and current ownership. Activision own the rights to the title at present. Govvy (talk) 10:15, 25 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Are you suggesting that there is no suitable merge target and that AFD is preferable? I have also tagged PopCap as the target; you did not comment on that target. --Izno (talk) 15:16, 25 January 2019 (UTC)
 * It is also not appropriate to remove the suggested merge tags until discussion is concluded. Please do not remove them again. --Izno (talk) 15:19, 25 January 2019 (UTC)


 * PopCap is not an appropriate target. Even though the same founders of Hoopy founded PopCap, PopCap did not develop this game. TEN would be the better target, as they oublished the game, but ultimately I think the page should just be redirected to TEN rather than merged, as the least of it is sourced. Lordtobi  ( &#9993; ) 15:28, 25 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Not sourced inline, no. There should be a sentence possibly elsewhere given the sourcing I found.
 * PopCap didn't develop this game, but the founders clearly indicate this game is what got them to founding PopCap, which is the line I would expect to see in PopCap Games, and hence why I suggested it as the merge/redirect target. --Izno (talk) 16:48, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

LOL, seriously what an illogical move suggestion to Total Entertainment Network. They didn't develop or create the game. It was last on, owned and hosted on Sierra Entertainment Network. Not only are you cutting out a point of history, but everything else out. No consideration for the historical essence of the game either as it's one of the first games to ever host 32 to 64 player maps. Govvy (talk) 18:17, 26 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes or no: Are you saying the article should not be merged anywhere? --Izno (talk) 18:26, 26 January 2019 (UTC)
 * It's can't be merged anywhere because of the numerous hosts this game has had and the fact there are no articles for Vechey or Brian Fiete. TEN was a host, Sierra was a host. They didn't develop the game. Govvy (talk) 18:36, 26 January 2019 (UTC)
 * So it sounds like you would prefer it to be deleted instead, as it does not appear to meet the general notability guideline. Okay. One for a merge/redirect to TEN, one for deletion. I will request additional opinion at WT:VG then. --Izno (talk) 18:42, 26 January 2019 (UTC)
 * To be honest, I am surprised no one has sent this to AfD in the last ten years! But I consider this game has a bit of historical importance to internet gaming history and very few people have ever noticed. Govvy (talk) 18:54, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

Why? Not the greatest idea. Benjaminkirsc (talk) 20:03, 3 March 2019 (UTC)