Talk:Attacks in Russia during the Russian invasion of Ukraine/Archive 1

More incidents
There is now a whole series of incidents of fires and explosions that may result from sabotage or attacks on Russian targets in Russia, occupied Ukraine, and Transnistria. There’s a separate Attack on Belgorod article (why is it separate?), and here’s a Twitter thread with a list of others (not comprehensive, I think): first tweet. Time to expand this article, I think. —Michael Z. 14:46, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Related: 2022 rail war in Belarus. —Michael Z. 14:49, 27 April 2022 (UTC)

Sabotage campaign in the Russian Federation

 * “Russia on fire: Is Ukraine giving Moscow a taste of its own medicine?,” BNE Intellinews.

—Michael Z. 20:56, 29 April 2022 (UTC)


 * “Blasts, Bombs, And Drones: Amid Carnage In Ukraine, A Shadow War On The Russian Side Of The Border,” RFE/RL.

—Michael Z. 19:56, 30 April 2022 (UTC)


 * “Ukrainian Official Outlines Intentional Ambiguity on Strikes Inside Russia,” New York Times.

—Michael Z. 16:34, 1 May 2022 (UTC)

Requested move 15 April 2022
April 2022 Belgorod and Bryansk attacks → April 2022 Belgorod and Bryansk explosions – Using the word "attacks" violates WP:NPOV as the attack claim is denied by Ukraine. Knowledgekid87 (talk) 20:02, 15 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Why should April be in the title? Move to 2022 Belgorod and Bryansk explosions. Jim Michael (talk) 20:47, 15 April 2022 (UTC)
 * I have no opinion on April being included or not. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 22:09, 15 April 2022 (UTC)
 * There have been other confirmed and alleged attacks and explosions near Belgorod or in Belgorod and Briansk oblasts, e.g., the Attack on Belgorod. I also recall an earlier fire suspected to be caused by Ukrainian special forces, and a Russian ballistic missile that fell short, near a highway. So April or some other specifier might be helpful. —Michael Z. 14:24, 16 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Agreed – or maybe even a merge to a single 2022 explosions in Belgorod article? Buttons0603 (talk) 14:32, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
 * We can always hammer this out down the line, right now the page needs to be moved to remove the loaded "attacks" from the title. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 19:14, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Well Ukraine seems to have argued that there were attacks in at least some cases, but that they were false flags. So "attack" seems appropriate. Dunutubble (talk) (Contributions) 16:17, 24 April 2022 (UTC)
 * As I said in the deletion discussion, Belgorod is not the only oblast to have been attacked. Kursk and Bryansk have both been subject to alleged bombings, and the most significant attack occurred in Bryansk Oblast. Dunutubble (talk) (Contributions) 16:16, 24 April 2022 (UTC)


 * Support. Russian authorities are not a reliable source, and attacks have been denied by Ukraine. Likely to be Russian propaganda. Buttons0603 (talk) 14:32, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Ukraine conducts its own propaganda—that's natural during the war. Ukrainian authorities are not a reliable source either, at this point. VanHelsing.16 (talk) 08:56, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Oppose. No one denies that some kind of shelling happened, not just "explosions". Regardless of which side is to blame, an attack is still an attack, whether it's a genuine attack or a false flag operation. VanHelsing.16 (talk) 08:56, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Oppose per VanHelsing. It doesn't seem to be disputed that someone attacked, the details and controversy can be covered in the article. (t &#183; c)  buidhe  03:40, 25 April 2022 (UTC)


 * Oppose There is video evidence showing two attack helicopters firing projectiles at a fuel depot on 1 April 2022. Whether it was Ukraine or a false flag operation by Russia, some sort of attack may have occurred. Nythar (talk) 22:22, 26 April 2022 (UTC)


 * Comment. Some of the incidents took place in Kursk Oblast and Voronezh Oblast. I suggest using a broader term for the title, such as "Russia-Ukraine border regions". Also, shouldn't we merge three articles: this one; Attack on Belgorod (an earlier even of a similar nature); and maybe Millerovo air base attack? A single article about the spillover might make sense. VanHelsing.16 (talk) 14:05, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
 * 2022 Western Russia attacks could be an acceptable title. Dunutubble (talk) (Contributions) 14:06, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Oppose "Explosions" is not covering the fires and sabotage actions. 82.174.61.58 (talk) 11:30, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

Requested move 1 May 2022

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: Move and Merge. There is consensus to merge this article with Millerovo air base attack, April 2022 Belgorod and Bryansk attacks and attack on Belgorod into a single article called Attacks in Russia during the 2022 invasion of Ukraine as per Mawer10's suggestions. Until someone takes the initiative and merges them together, the article is moved to 2022 Western Russia attacks per nomination, as an improvement over current title. Extended discussion on a merge proposal may be carried out in the above section. If consensus on whether or not to merge the articles changes, that should be respected, irrespective of this close. (closed by non-admin page mover) &#8212;CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {C•X}) 06:19, 17 May 2022 (UTC)

April 2022 Belgorod and Bryansk attacks → 2022 Western Russia attacks – As someone else pointed out in the last proposed move, there have also been explosions/attacks in other oblasts of Russia, particularly Kursk and at least one incidents in Voronezh. I think that this article would have to be renamed to "2022 Western Russia attacks" to fully capture this page's scope.* * This may not be the most correct title as there was also an explosion in Ussuriysk, Siberia, but it's the best I can do. Dunutubble (talk) (Contributions) 17:12, 1 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Support as this is an improvement. Could consider something like Attacks in Russia during the 2022 invasion of Ukraine. Maybe not all fires are attacks, maybe they’re not all connected to the invasion, but there is now a big set that have been linked to the war through accusations, speculation, non-denial denials, and apparently some real evidence. —Michael Z. 21:08, 1 May 2022 (UTC)


 * I support merging articles Millerovo air base attack, April 2022 Belgorod and Bryansk attacks and attack on Belgorod into a single article called Attacks in Russia during the 2022 invasion of Ukraine. Mawer10 (talk) 01:36, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I would support such a change so as to provide a better overview of the subject. Dunutubble (talk) (Contributions) 12:50, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I support merging the articles April 2022 Belgorod and Bryansk attacks and attack on Belgorod and renaming them to "2022 Attacks on Belgorod and Bryansk", or something similar. 187.39.133.201 (talk) 18:53, 2 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Support merge with Attack on Belgorod. All part of the same series of attacks. And rename to 2022 Western Russia attacks. EkoGraf (talk) 16:17, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Support renaming this article "2022 Western Russia attacks" or "Attacks in Russia during the 2022 invasion of Ukraine", and merging it with Millerovo air base attack and Attack on Belgorod. ~Asarlaí 23:31, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Support merge to Attacks in Russia during the 2022 invasion of Ukraine per Mawer (preferred) or title suggested by nominator. – Reidgreg (talk) 17:03, 5 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Dawsongfg (talk) 17:29, 15 May 2022 (UTC)Strongly oppose if it means merge all of them into one. Dawsongfg (talk) 23:24, 7 May 2022 (UTC)Dawsongfg (talk) 17:29, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
 * , do you just jump into merge discussions and vote oppose for the sake of it? Super   Ψ   Dro  20:15, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
 * No. Dawsongfg (talk) 20:36, 8 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Support rename and merge clearly an improvement. Super   Ψ   Dro  20:15, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Support merge and rename - too little information for separate articles, and clearly part of a wider operation. Applodion (talk) 09:26, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment. Not all of them are "attacks" as the title implies. They could be accidents or sabotage by Russian people. "Also on 25 April, there was an explosion at an airbase in Ussuriysk in the Far East of Russia". I do not think anyone seriously suggests this is work by Ukrainians. It is very frequent in Russia that someone sets a fire in a warehouse to hide that a lot of goods were stolen. My very best wishes (talk) 02:43, 14 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Change vote, support but change the merging name to "2022 Russia fires" or something like that, at least until we figure out who's doing this. Dawsongfg (talk) 17:28, 15 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Comment. and  There is already an article about the mysterious incidents in Russia, see 2022 Russian mystery fires. Incidents that the Russians claimed to be Ukrainian attacks can stay in the current article, while mysterious incidents stay in the article 2022 Russian mystery fires. For now these articles can be separated, but a future fusion of both may be possible, but now I think it's not the time yet. Mawer10 (talk) 13:25, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I've PRODed that article. It serves no use other than a duplicate and POVFORK of this article.
 * Unconfirmed theories are not necessarily "conspiracy theories" and portraying them as "mystery fires" isn't a professional term. Dunutubble (talk) (Contributions) 13:41, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Merger proposal 1 May 2022
Merge Attack on Belgorod into April 2022 Belgorod and Bryansk attacks.

This subject now clearly transcends the geographical and chronological restrictions in the title: numerous other attacks have occurred outside these two oblasts and outside of the month of April (the arbitrary “Background” section lists a March incident), and there is no reason for the other article to exist separately from this one. The article should also be renamed. —Michael Z. 16:41, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Notable individual events such as Attack on Belgorod can still have their own articles regardless of the scope of this one, so I don't see why it should necessarily be merged in. This page should serve as more of a campaign-type overview like the offensive articles, which did not have all the individual battle articles merged in either. ansh. 666 18:07, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Support merge. All part of the same series of attacks. EkoGraf (talk) 14:34, 4 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Support per nom. Finally someone proposed it. Super   Ψ   Dro  19:53, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
 * 1) Support, this is an improvement. Mawer10 (talk) 16:00, 18 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Support, per above. 187.39.133.201 (talk) 00:50, 19 May 2022 (UTC)

The article has been merged. Super  Ψ   Dro  21:59, 21 May 2022 (UTC)

Short description
The Short description of cross-border incidents in the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine was too long (at 62 characters) and started with a lower case letter. I have thus shortened it to Reported cross-border incidents which is shorter per WP:SDSHORT, starts correctly per WP:SDFORMAT and follows on from the article title to form a reasonable summary per WP:SDNOTDEF. It is, clearly, not yet a perfect SD, so please work to improve it — GhostInTheMachine talk to me 15:41, 15 June 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 2 February 2023
Change “Sudhza” to “Sudzha” in “On 2 November, 5 civilians, including 3 children, were reportedly injured after shells hit the village of Guyevo, Sudhza district, several private houses and stores were also damaged on the attack, the village was also left without electricity as power lines were either destroyed or damaged following the explosions.” Jhvhfhv (talk) 04:13, 2 February 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅ – small jars 17:27, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 1 June 2023
Under the subheading May 2023, it states "On 7 May, an drone..." the phrase An drone should be changed to A drone GhoulzRulez (talk) 15:58, 1 June 2023 (UTC)


 * ✅ Clyde H. Mapping (talk) 16:46, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Correction
Can someone change "an Ukrainian" to "a Ukrainian", please. Jenny Jankel (talk) 23:44, 13 July 2023 (UTC)


 * ✅ Dunutubble (talk) (Contributions) 20:28, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

Merger proposal 24 May 2022
Merge Millerovo air base attack into 2022 Western Russia attacks.

These articles deal with the same subject, there is no need to be separate. Mawer10 (talk) 16:19, 24 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Weak support I am not entirely sure, but I believe it'd be good to have all of these grouped into one single article. The level of notability between Millerovo and any other event listed here is superior only slightly we could say. But my vote may change as other people participate here. Super   Ψ   Dro  21:35, 24 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Comment: More can be said without. 96.35.226.161 (talk) 23:25, 27 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Oppose This article covert the first ever proven Ukrianian attack on Russian soil during the war and the succesfull use of Tochka missiles on a airfield. Must be kept.Mr.User200 (talk) 14:11, 4 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Oppose on the basis that the Millerovo air base attack, uniquely, was outright confirmed by Ukraine, rather than denying any role in it or refusing to confirm or deny. Mupper-san (talk) 19:26, 14 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Result is? Dawsongfg (talk) 02:27, 1 July 2022 (UTC)


 * Weak oppose The Millerovo shelling has enough material for a stand-alone article and it was an open attack at a military target, different in character than most of the deniable campaign of attacks at strategic targets. —Michael Z. 13:22, 4 July 2022 (UTC)


 * Oppose its the only attack in Russia that was confirmed by Ukraine, all others were either denied or werent even talked about. 187.39.133.201 (talk) 21:18, 21 July 2022 (UTC)


 * Oppose per Mupper-san, also there hasn't ben consensus since too long. Dawsongfg (talk) 00:46, 3 August 2022 (UTC)


 * Strong Oppose - Merge proposal should be aware that Millerovo air base attack had an AfD back in March, which had a keep result. Articles for deletion/Millerovo air base attack. Elijahandskip (talk) 01:28, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

An Image
https://www.slovoidilo.ua/2022/07/03/novyna/svit/obstrily-byelhorodi-odyn-budynkiv-vpala-chastyna-rakety-rosijskoho-pancyra

https://news.obozrevatel.com/ukr/russia/na-mistsi-vibuhu-v-bilgorodi-znajshli-chastini-zrk-pantsir-takogo-ozbroennya-zsu-ne-mayut-zmi.htm

https://espreso.tv/ulamok-raketi-z-rosiyskogo-zrpk-pantsir-vpav-na-bagatopoverkhivku-v-belgorodi

https://times.kharkiv.ua/2022/07/03/rosiyani-vbivayut-ukrayintsiv-navit-u-sebe-vdoma/

I'd like to add this image somewhere, but I think it would be better if a more experienced editor does it if needed. Not sure how true this image is.. but just in case I decided to write about this image.. plus i belive this is actually true (This is old info by the way) Random Fan Camping (talk) 12:19, 7 September 2022 (UTC)


 * , the real problem with including images from websites is that they are usually copyrighted. There is a policy for Non-free content, but I’m not sure if the inclusion of these images qualifies as fair use. It looks for me like they can qualify but this should really be discussed with an admin. Hope that helps. - 🇺🇦 Слава🇺🇦Україні 🇺🇦 Героям🇺🇦Слава🇺🇦 (talk)🇺🇦 13:50, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes, Myself i believe that this image are true.. but I'm not going to discuss this with the admins, moderators or any other staff because I don't know exactly who the admins, moderators or other staff are.. also I think this image is not copyrighted because it's an image from a telegram channel. but i'm also not going to add this image since i'm not really expirienced editor and i should not only add image but add more text in that case so.. Random Fan Camping (talk) 14:08, 30 September 2022 (UTC)


 * , you have cited reliable sources so I don’t see a reason to suggest they aren’t real. However, just letting you know, wikimedia commons only allows uploads if you created the files yourself or if the creator has explicitly released it under a free license. Those images are considered non-free media and can be uploaded directly to Wikipedia as fair use. I agree that it should be done by a more experienced user. - 🇺🇦 Слава🇺🇦Україні 🇺🇦 Героям🇺🇦Слава🇺🇦 (talk)🇺🇦 19:51, 30 September 2022 (UTC)

unreliable sources?
there are a few russian and ukrainian sources here, someone should look into them and see if theyre reliable or not, as some of these cases might just be russian propaganda. SnoopyBird (talk) 18:15, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

How did the drones get into Russia?
For the December 5, 2022 attacks, how did Ukrainian drones get hundreds of miles into Russian territory? 173.88.246.138 (talk) 173.88.246.138 (talk) 00:17, 6 December 2022 (UTC)
 * I mean, this is not the place to ask general questions about the war (there's other places for that), but, i mean, they could've launched it from Kharkiv and it flew from there into Russia, OR sabotage teams launched it from inside Russia, we never really know. SnoopyBird (talk) 20:01, 6 December 2022 (UTC)
 * The Tupolev Tu-141 transonic UAV weighs 6 tons. It is vanishingly unlikely that it was smuggled into Russia. Safe to assume they just flew from Ukraine to their targets hundreds of kilometres into Russia. —Michael Z. 15:15, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

Split section
If Millerovo air base attack got an article, the strikes at Ryazan and Engels definitively deserve one. We have a long article on Russian Wikipedia. Super  Ψ   Dro  02:46, 4 January 2023 (UTC)


 * The need is borderline in both cases. The Millerovo article was created when it was the only attack in Russia, while this one was created later, after two or three mysterious attacks, and ended up being the catch-all.
 * So I say be my guest and create it if there is more to add, but this article still serves as a valuable summary, so leave them here too.
 * (A map would really enhance this article.) —Michael Z. 15:06, 4 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't think Millerovo was ever really notable and specially now that Ukraine has carried out several other attacks against Russia. I would support a merge of the article. The attacks on Ryazan and Engels however are particularly notable in my opinion, if I remember correctly both were around 600km away from the nearest Ukrainian-controlled territory, Engels was hit not one but THREE times, several Russian soldiers died, and quite amusingly, Russian air defenses shot down one of their own fighter jets as a result of paranoia in the region . Super   Ψ   Dro  00:25, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

More explosions in February and March 2023
https://www.newsweek.com/russia-ukraine-drone-attacks-1784676 Joreberg (talk) 18:38, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

22 May RU vs RU
What appears to be Russian vs Russian armed conflict in Western Russia today seems like it's relevant for this article. Boud (talk) 14:26, 22 May 2023 (UTC) The main article is 2023 Belgorod Oblast attack. Boud (talk) 18:11, 22 May 2023 (UTC)