Talk:Attempted assassination of Donald Trump/Archive 2

Wind
It would be good to add information on the wind conditions. In Pittsburg winds blew from the WNW, which would be perfectly from the side, to miss to left, i.e. hitting the right ear. 82.209.143.42 (talk) 11:18, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * That'll be in the investigation. kencf0618 (talk) 11:28, 14 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: As per WP:TOOMUCH  Lord ' serious ' pig  11:27, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * It is interesting to think about but this is probably WP:OR until someone deigns to mention it somewhere. jp×g🗯️ 11:31, 14 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Windage is not a major issue with modern rifles. Slatersteven (talk) 11:51, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

its an assassination attempt. call it one.
its an assassination attempt. call it one. Jaygo113 (talk) 03:34, 14 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Please see Talk:2024_shooting_at_a_Donald_Trump_rally. Star action  ( talk  &#124;  contribs ) 03:36, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * If we just listened to one dude, we'd be all over the place. See . It seems like there is a high probability this will end up being included in the title. Raskuly (talk) 03:37, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * if you support moving the article then vote at . Bill Williams 03:46, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 14 July 2024 (2)
remove line about Trump being a hour late, has zero relevancy Marcell.Lovas93 (talk) 11:46, 14 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Seems reasonable... consider it ✅! ZionniThePeruser (talk) 12:04, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 14 July 2024 (3)
There's no proof that this was an assassination. 174.53.215.65 (talk) 12:02, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * X mark.svg Not done This has already been extensively discussed earlier on this talk page. --Hammersoft (talk) 12:05, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 14 July 2024 (2)
In 'international' add the repulsion of Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva from Brazil to the attack. Mtvdanilo (talk) 14:00, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * ✔️: Has already been added.  C F A   💬  15:53, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 14 July 2024 (8)
https://news.cgtn.com/news/2024-07-14/Xi-Jinping-sends-message-of-sympathy-to-Trump-over-rally-shooting-1vehAUEAKe4/p.html Add Xi Jinping of China to international reactions Username900122 (talk) 14:37, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. — DaxServer (t·m·e·c) 14:54, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * ✅: Not sure why this was declined earlier. Request looked pretty clear to me, although the source you used is deprecated (see WP:CGTN).  C F A   💬  16:02, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Think it may because the source provided isn't great. J cool bro   (talk) (c) 16:03, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 14 July 2024 (6)
Change the condemnations block to use a table like this instead:

Stalegingerlingers (talk) 13:53, 14 July 2024 (UTC)


 * I don't see the benefit of this aside from making everything look colorful.  Bremps  ...  13:58, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Agree. We don't need a salad bar of country flags. --Hammersoft (talk) 14:49, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Also agree, no flag clutter, the name of the country is more important than a flag. Isaidnoway (talk) 15:44, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * ❌ Flag cluttering the page is not needed. J cool bro   (talk) (c) 15:50, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Use of Live or Archived Sources
I noticed the archiving of some live sources. Should we not be simply linking live sources instead for higher accuracy and to prevent future confusion if the old sources report outdated information? Some people may update the content of this Wiki article and not change the outdated sources. Bill Williams 00:27, 14 July 2024 (UTC)


 * I agree - I also think we should prefer regular articles if possible. Star action  ( talk  &#124;  contribs ) 02:32, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Attendance size
A better source that the Republican County Chairman is needed for the figure on the number of attendees. Abductive (reasoning) 23:52, 13 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Agree - added better source needed template. LucasR muteacc (talk) 23:59, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Please clarify the currently available information about the alleged shooter
It is clear that the shooter was male, of slim build, with light to fair skin complexion. There are already hundreds of sources confirming this.

For instance:

Vitreology (talk) 01:36, 14 July 2024 (UTC)


 * and who shot the attendees? The assassin or the secret service snipers?MisawaSakura (talk) 01:41, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Good point. I'm not aware of any current source offering this information, but I'm sure it will be available soon Vitreology (talk) 01:44, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Twitter is not a reliable source.  C F A   💬  01:41, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * As I said, there are hundreds of reputable sources already. I'm planting the seed for further investigation, not the final solution Vitreology (talk) 01:43, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Well, link a reliable source then. No one is going to update it if you link to a Twitter video.  C F A   💬  01:48, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Obviously, which is why I'm searching for other sources in between replying. Are you doing the same? Vitreology (talk) 01:52, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * The shooter was male. He was not a rally attendee. "He was outside the grounds" of the rally Vitreology (talk) 01:55, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * "The gunman opened fire from AGR International, a plastic container manufacturing facility." Vitreology (talk) 02:03, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I've seen it claimed that the Butler Police Department has confirmed that the shooter is who has links to the Antifa extremist group, and that he uploaded a YouTube video saying justice was coming shortly before the attack. I've yet to see any MSM sources with this however, and have also seen it claimed this is a dangerous right-wing conspiracy theory which will be exploited to impose intensified crackdowns on Leftist movements. If the claim is false it may still be relevant as a false claim depending on how widespread it is.
 * Note that the shooter was outside the security perimeter using an unsecured rooftop. Security experts appear unclear on why such an obvious danger wasn't secured. On the other hand DHS apparently denied Trump's Security Service detail's urgent request for more protection and resources so perhaps they simply didn't have the manpower? 人族 (talk) 02:08, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Can you provide the sources where you've seen such claims about (redacted)? Thanks. Star action  ( talk  &#124;  contribs ) 02:09, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * It is not widespread and definitely not confirmed. It was a rumour on Twitter. There are a few sources talking about the false claim, the most in-depth being this one. It was also mentioned in this NBC article.  C F A   💬  02:31, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * @Vitreology Hi, so far everything I've seen supporting this claim has been from less-than-reliable sources (WP:NYPOST, WP:DAILYMAIL). Please let me know if there's any other sources you can find with this information. Star action  ( talk  &#124;  contribs ) 02:20, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I'm only one person, I can't be expected to do this alone Vitreology (talk) 02:27, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * You aren't doing this alone! We're all scouring the Internet at this point for information, but if you find some faster than people can add it, you can let us know! Star action  ( talk  &#124;  contribs ) 02:51, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Injured audience members
Is it known whether the injuries to the audience members where caused by the perpetrator or accidentally by law enforcement? If yes, this should be added to the article. --188.23.237.250 (talk) 14:09, 14 July 2024 (UTC)


 * ✔️: This is already explained in the article.  C F A   💬  15:56, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Recommend adding Victims or Casualties section
The casualties: The shooting left one attendee dead and two others critically injured, authorities say. All three were adult men. Though they have been identified by authorities, those details have not yet been publicly shared. https://edition.cnn.com/politics/live-news/election-biden-trump-07-13-24/index.html Given the massive interest in the event I think we should be thorough, organized and complete even in the absence of further identifying information on the non-celebrity victims. Oathed (talk) 14:12, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * there were three, that does not need its own section. Slatersteven (talk) 14:16, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Should be a separate subsection when enough details emerge to warrant it. User:WoodElf 16:34, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Logical error in lead
"The shooting is being investigated as an attempted assassination. It is the first time that a U.S. president or presidential candidate was injured in an attempted assassination since Ronald Reagan was shot in 1981."

The first sentence suggests that it is not definitive whether it was an attempted assassination ("investigated"). The second sentence implies that it was an attempted assassination as a matter of fact. JDiala (talk) 01:48, 14 July 2024 (UTC)


 * suggest change to something along the lines of "It is the first time that a U.S. president or presidential candidate was injured in a shooting since Ronald Reagan was shot in 1981." J cool bro   (talk) (c) 01:52, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I like this change better. I actually think the live update that AP provided stating, "This appears to be the first assassination attempt since Reagan was shot in 1981", is incorrect; an assassination attempt against Obama occurred in 2011, albeit without injuries to the president.  Star action  ( talk  &#124;  contribs ) 01:57, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that was very sloppy wording by AP. List of United States presidential assassination attempts and plots has a an attempt against George H.W. Bush, 5 against Bill Clinton, 2 against George W. Bush, 8 against Barack Obama, 3 prior against Donald Trump, and 1 against Joe Biden. Also, this exists: Template:Assassination attempts on presidents of the United States OCNative (talk) 02:25, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

QNA is needed
To stop people saying to change it to assassination. Needs to say something like "we do not have it as a assassination attempt because its not confirmed" or something like that, and to stop asking Sharrdx (talk) 04:14, 14 July 2024 (UTC)


 * What standard of evidence would you require to consider it "confirmed"?  Bremps  ...  04:20, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * What exactly are you proposing? It shows that there is an active discussion going about renaming it when you open the article and the final title will likely have "assassination" in one way or another in it. I'd imagine the renaming discussion will be over somewhat soon considering most Wikipedians are now coming to the conclusion that "assassination" should be in the title. Raskuly (talk) 04:21, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * It's very hard for it to be anything other than assassination. The guy climbed to the top of a building with a rifle, and shot the Former President's ear from long range. Ikmxx (talk) 04:27, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Trump’s Truth MSG after attempt
When the Wiki says "…that he was shot with a bullet that pierced the upper part of [his] right ear" I believe the Truth MSG from Trump [URL/link below] should be here however, when I used attempted to add using (as a reference) how Twitter is cited in Wikipedia, it didn't work. So I post to the Wiki's Talk Page.

Truth Details from/by @realDonaldTrump — Truth Social-https://www.truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrump/posts/112782066045321247/;

Sroth0616 (talk) 05:20, 14 July 2024 (UTC) Sroth0616 (talk) 05:20, 14 July 2024 (UTC)


 * A Truth Social post is a primary source. See WP:SOCIALMEDIA. It could only be used for a claim that says something like "Donald Trump claims he was shot with a bullet..."  C F A   💬  06:37, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * @C F A, The Truth MSG (URL/link) in my Talk post on the matter, is from Trump sharing "…the shooter, who is now dead. I was shot with a bullet that pierced the upper part of my right ear. I knew…". Since it came from Trump's social media account I believe the URL/link should be in the Wiki article (I prefer as a reference).
 * Sroth0616 (talk) 08:32, 14 July 2024 (UTC) Sroth0616 (talk) 08:32, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * It is a primary source. It is just as reliable as Trump saying something at a press conference. The claims in it can only be referenced once they have been reported by reliable, secondary sources. Otherwise, it can only verify that he said what he said. Please read WP:SOCIALMEDIA.  C F A   💬  14:49, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Trump made another post (URL/link below)
 * Truth Details from/by @realDonaldTrump — Truth Social-https://www.truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrump/112784638860095397/;
 * Sroth0616 (talk) 12:49, 14 July 2024 (UTC) Sroth0616 (talk) 12:49, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

No. we will not use Truth Social as a source for this. Elinruby (talk) 06:29, 14 July 2024 (UTC)


 * There's no reason not to use Truth Social, especially if it's a statement from Trump and is framed that way in the article. I don't see any issue with saying "Trump stated in a post to Truth Social …"
 * The Obama statement is from Twitter. How is this less reliable of a source? &raquo; Bray talk 07:20, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Shouldn't be using Twitter either. Both are self-published primary sources. Elinruby (talk) 08:02, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I do not disagree social media is (as you said) "self-published", many other Wiki articles including "Fern Hollow Bridge" section: "Second bridge" sub-section: "Collapse" Sroth0616 (talk) 08:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * That's what I was thinking.
 * Sroth0616 (talk) 08:37, 14 July 2024 (UTC) Sroth0616 (talk) 08:37, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Technically we can for short statements saying that someone said something, but there’s no reason to when all of these posts will have been analyzed and quoted by reliable, secondary sources. Especially Trump’s.  C F A   💬  14:56, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * What makes Truth Social ("Truth") difference compared to (listed in no order) Reddit, Twitter, Facebook, MySpace, etc.?
 * Sroth0616 (talk) 08:34, 14 July 2024 (UTC) Sroth0616 (talk) 08:34, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Perpetrator name confirmed by local media
WTAE also reports that the shooter is named TMC. This report does not cite the New York Post, but instead claims "officials have identified the man as" TMC. https://www.wtae.com/article/thomas-matthew-crooks-trump-gunman/61588989?utm_campaign=snd-autopilot SocDoneLeft (talk) 05:38, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * The FBI has also done so https://x.com/joshgerstein/status/1812359994211234167 SocDoneLeft (talk) 05:39, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * This is not an appropriate source for a BLP. Traumnovelle (talk) 05:56, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * No, but it has now been confirmed in RS. See Reuters for example.  C F A   💬  06:02, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * It still should not be used as a source for BLP regardless if Reuters confirms it, and BLP applies to project space too. Traumnovelle (talk) 06:04, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Agreed. The FBI has formerly identified Thomas Matthew Crooks as the attempted assassin. This should now be noted in the article. Icrin7 (talk) 05:40, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * @SocDoneLeft can confirm NBC has announced the shooter live KoP152 (talk) 05:40, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Yup, now confirmed.  C F A   💬  05:46, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * CNBC has also identified him https://www.cnbc.com/2024/07/13/donald-trump-shot-live-updates.html ++Arx Fortis (talk) 05:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Reuters and USA Today are covering this. — Red-tailed hawk  (nest) 05:48, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Confirmed Shooter
I was previously told via WP:BLP to not put potential names of assassins without excellent sourcing, however this time I believe it is credible enough. However, this time see here and here for credible information of the confirmed shooter. I would edit the page myself, but am not an extended auto confirmed user. InfiniteSword (talk) 05:59, 14 July 2024 (UTC)


 * ✔️: It was confirmed and already updated.  C F A   💬  06:00, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * In that case, the "Investigation" section under "Aftermath" should also be updated InfiniteSword (talk) 06:03, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * ✅.  C F A   💬  06:12, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * The identity of the killer is also confirmed by the FBI. InfiniteSword (talk) 06:01, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Requested move 14 July 2024

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved  Toadette Edit! 13:59, 14 July 2024 (UTC) Its snowing. (non-admin closure) Toadette Edit! 13:59, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Attempted assassination of Donald Trump → 2024 Attempted assassination of Donald Trump – as per the standard mos of WP:NCWWW. Josethewikier (talk) 06:27, 14 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose. The primary topic of assassination attempts on Donald Trump is going to be the one where he was shot. This is fairly unambiguous; there is no need to include the year. And, per the criterion of concision, article titles ought be no longer than necessary to identify the article's subject and distinguish it from other subjects. — Red-tailed hawk  (nest) 06:31, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Strong Oppose this needs a speedy close, the other "attempt" was negligible and not nearly as notable as this. No need for clarification. Bill Williams 06:35, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Goes against WP:PTOPIC and WP:CONSISTENT. The other examples are:
 * Attempted assassination of Arsenio Martínez Campos
 * Attempted assassination of Dick Cheney
 * Attempted assassination of Fumio Kishida
 * Attempted assassination of Gerald Ford
 * Attempted assassination of Harry S. Truman
 * Attempted assassination of Imran Khan
 * Attempted assassination of Juan Carlos I
 * Attempted assassination of Leonid Brezhnev
 * Attempted assassination of Lilburn Boggs
 * Attempted assassination of Mohamed Nasheed
 * Attempted assassination of Pavel Milyukov
 * Attempted assassination of Pope John Paul II
 * Attempted assassination of Ronald Reagan
 * Attempted assassination of Theodore Roosevelt
 * etc. Keivan.f  Talk 06:37, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose. See reason above: WP:PTOPIC and WP:CONSISTENTWorstbull (talk) 06:41, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose. "Some articles do not need a year for disambiguation when, in historic perspective, the event is easily described without it." WWGB (talk) 06:38, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose Obviously the primary topic on assassination attempts against Trump is this one, where he was actually injured. So an extra disambiguator is not necessary per WP:CONCISE.  C F A   💬  06:43, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose. I know I'm the first one to complain about recentism, but the 2016 event doesn't get even close to the severity of this one. This is the primary topic by a long shot.  Liliana UwU  (talk / contributions) 07:44, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose per above Parham wiki (talk) 10:09, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose There has been only one. Slatersteven (talk) 11:53, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose "Some articles do not need a year for disambiguation when, in historic perspective, the event is easily described without it" seems to apply here. Dylnuge  (Talk • Edits) 12:54, 14 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose This is the primary topic, his other would-be assassins never came this close. Killuminator (talk) 13:00, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Speedy close, there's clearly not support here. --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 13:59, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Don't forget to update the "Old moves" template at the top of this page, after this section is archived. Thanks! --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 14:03, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

"Suspected shooter"
Do we need to hedge with "suspected" when describing the shooter? He's quite dead, and I'm not sure we really need to give that sort of caution here that we would owe to living people. — Red-tailed hawk  (nest) 06:46, 14 July 2024 (UTC)


 * I know BLP (and BDP) exists... but it's not like they're gonna have a trial to confirm or deny they did it when they were shot dead.  Liliana UwU  (talk / contributions) 06:56, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I agree. Given that the FBI has identified the corpse at the sniper's perch, I think that the "suspect" terminology is no longer required or desirable. Cullen328 (talk) 07:00, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Agreed. “Shooter” is more accurate with what is now known. Icrin7 (talk) 07:02, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I agree as well. Titanium Dragon  (talk) 07:08, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * What do reliable sources call him? If they refrain from calling TMC “the shooter” in their voices, then we should avoid it too. ꧁ Zanahary ꧂ 07:56, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * right Elinruby (talk) 07:59, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Guardian uses "the suspected shooter" and "the suspect" in a recent update. --Super Goku V (talk) 08:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

request for adding UTC time in parentheses
this is a globally affecting incident, only using EDT timezone is kinda dumb Hellomtfk (talk) 10:40, 14 July 2024 (UTC)


 * The Infobox Docs infer that local timestamps should be used, but I changed the Timezone to a UTC Offset as per the docs.  Lord ' serious ' pig  11:04, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * @Hellomtfk, I agree and I remember some transportation accident Wikis (Like Singapore Airlines Flight 321 in section titled "Accident") show local time and UTC.
 * Sroth0616 (talk) 12:55, 14 July 2024 (UTC) Sroth0616 (talk) 12:55, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

"conspiracy theory"
The first or second sentence of the "background" paragraph should be something like "Donald Trump and some of his supporters have long been claiming his political opponents were targeting him for assassination, a claim dismissed as a conspiracy theory by some medias now proved wrong." All three elements are important:
 * 1) DT and associates claimed an assassination plot would happen;
 * 2) major media dismissed this as a conspiracy theory from right-wing looneys;
 * 3) those media are now proved wrong, while so called right wing wackos are proven right.

After that, we could have a debate on the reliability of those media, and whether they actually belong in our list of reliable sources. But that would probably be too much to ask, I forecast a lot of head explosions at the simple idea that cnn, nbc, forbes etc. are actually worse than Tucker and Jones (not meaning these are any good, mind you).

ref

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/tucker-carlson-says-us-speeding-assassination-trump-stoking-conspiraci-rcna102976 Vs https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/live-blog/donald-trump-shooting-live-updates-assassination-attempt-shock-biden-rcna161759

https://www.forbes.com/sites/antoniopequenoiv/2023/09/02/tucker-carlsons-trump-assassination-conspiracy-theory-explained-where-it-started-who-is-pushing-it/ Vs https://www.forbes.com/sites/antoniopequenoiv/2024/07/14/trump-assassination-attempt-heres-what-we-know/

etc. (just too many cases)

PS "There was no conspiracy just a lone wolf" in 3,2,1... Yet irrelevant: the conspiracy theory, as it was called, just foresaw that someone would try to kill Trump, not that [insert your favorite clique] organized it.

Have a nice day, people 2A01:E0A:1DC:4570:1425:D4A3:15AD:2E11 (talk) 16:33, 14 July 2024 (UTC)


 * relevant section J cool bro   (talk) (c) 16:35, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Please cite sources where Trump or his staff have expressed worry about assassination previously and it may be added to Background section if enough verifiable sources are available. Conspiracy theories are not relevant. Everybody and their aunt has a theory about what happened at the moment. Wait until details of investigation emerge. User:WoodElf 16:42, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * There are numerous videos of Donald Trump Jr. in his social media accounts, from the past few weeks before this incident, disseminating that conspiracy theory. Many other posted the same narrative, after the SCOTUS immunity decision from July 1, 2024. Worstbull (talk) 16:48, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Reaction of former president Carter
The Carter Center, acting on behalf of the former president, released this statement:

"The Carter Center condemns the violence that took place at former President Trump's campaign rally in Pennsylvania. While we don't know all the facts, we do know that all Americans should be able to gather peaceably without fear of violence. Our thoughts are with President Trump and all those affected by this horrific act, and we call on all Americans to embrace civility in our democratic processes."

I recommend this be added in the same section that includes the reactions of former presidents Obama and Clinton, among others. That Dude Randy (talk) 12:28, 14 July 2024 (UTC)


 * I don't agree since Carter is incapacitated in hospice and this is a statement made by a foundation, not an actual president 72.177.230.147 (talk) 13:35, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * ✅ other words similar to this were inserted in article. J cool bro   (talk) (c) 16:29, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * "The Carter Center condemned the attack and called for Americans to 'embrace civility'." J cool bro   (talk) (c) 16:31, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Discrepancy between ActBlue donation and Voter Registration
The ActBlue donation was from an address in Pittsburgh, the voter registration from an address in Bethel Park. Bethel Park is close to Pittsburgh, but is not a part of Pittsburgh proper.

This should be noted at least. AddInfinty (talk) 12:41, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Citation for Quote in Background Section
The quote reads "We appreciate your input but we've already made up our minds." towards the end of the Background section on the event.

The Pittsburg Post Gazette ran a news article with that quote.

https://www.post-gazette.com/news/election-2024/2024/07/12/trump-biden-debate-pennsylvania-kelly-thompson/stories/202407110086 That Dude Randy (talk) 12:37, 14 July 2024 (UTC)


 * ✔️: Already cited in the article.  C F A   💬  16:04, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 14 July 2024 (2)
Trump was not shot in the ear, the glass from a teleprompter flew and cut his ear. Let’s be truth tellers. 70.142.25.119 (talk) 17:39, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Per trump's statement he claims it was a bullet (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-says-shots-pierced-injured-ear-rally-pennsylvania/). Unless we have a reliable source that contradicts that, we can't change it Tantomile (talk) 17:48, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Drama vs. reality
I don't have the time to read the copious comments above, but I watched the replay of video of the assassination attempt just a few minutes after it happened. I quickly became skeptical. Trump's wound didn't look like anything that could have been caused by a "through and through" high velocity round. In the hysteria of reporting, I can understand why it was reported that he was "shot." However, as the "fog of war" cleared, there was considerable commentary in reliable sources that he was injured by a fragment of glass or hard plastic from the shattered teleprompter. Trump's personal account should be tempered by his need and desire for drama rather than reality. It would have more dramatic (as we can see above) impact that he was hit by a high velocity bullet rather than wounded by teleprompter fragments. He also has a propensity to lie about damn near everything. The Washington Post, for example, counted his lies or misstatements of fact during his four years in office and the total, if I remember correctly, was 30,573. We ought to let the dust settle until a more careful analysis comes to be established. Finally, if he was grazed by a bullet, chances are it would have wounded or killed the person immediately behind him, which I don't believe was the case. Activist (talk) 14:01, 14 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Just say it simply: "I'm a staging conspiracy theorist" 62.217.185.86 (talk) 17:11, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * @Activist you can literally see pictures where the teleprompter glass is fully intact. As often happens with such conspiracy theorists, you've not sought even a shred of evidence despite it being abundant in this case. Bjngobkngo (talk) 17:51, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 14 July 2024 (5)
In the lead, please change, "A rally attendee was killed, while two other attendees were critically injured" to, "A rally attendee was killed, while two other attendees were critically injured in the shooting." Ganeemath (talk) 13:25, 14 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Source? Trade (talk) 13:33, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * It's supposed to reword a sentence but I can't find the original wording in the article. Nythar  (💬-🍀) 13:36, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Somebody has changed that sentence already. I need some of you to comment here.-Ganeemath (talk) 13:44, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Please read the policy on canvassing.  C F A   💬  15:40, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Who Trade (talk) 16:44, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

shooter?
Hi I saw this info here [link to X/Twitter redacted. Daniel (talk) 02:52, 14 July 2024 (UTC)] identifying the shooter as, maybe add into article if there's more evidence? InfiniteSword (talk) 02:34, 14 July 2024 (UTC)


 * I'd wait until reliable news sources repeat the claim. You can't trust every Twitter rando you hear. ZionniThePeruser (talk) 02:36, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * The poster refuses to post the supposed announcement. Plus FNAF 2 Bonnie is in the bg. This is a likely troll Ornov Ganguly (talk) 02:41, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Yes, this should not have been posted here without anything in RS.  C F A   💬  02:45, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

We probably should redact this name, per WP:BLP. OCNative (talk) 02:43, 14 July 2024 (UTC)


 * 100% Dumuzid (talk) 02:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I redacted the link to X/Twitter also, just to be safe. Daniel (talk) 02:52, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * It was . Delectable1 (talk) 06:03, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Stop it. Daniel Please redact. Delectable1
 * you can’t even post this here without a reliable source. There’s high risk if it’s wrong. ꧁ Zanahary ꧂ 06:22, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Oops, I see now it’s confirmed! ꧁ Zanahary ꧂ 06:31, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Ironically, Zanahary, the original name I redacted in the 02:34 post was not Mr Crooks! Goes to show the value of waiting. Daniel (talk) 07:33, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * It was not . posted a video after the event saying it wasn't him Flopsaurus (talk) 07:26, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Nevermind, the video might be an impersonation Flopsaurus (talk) 07:31, 14 July 2024 (UTC)


 * request to archive this section --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 17:11, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

why were the flags removed from politicians?
there was flags removed besides the international responses, why? NotQualified (talk) 02:35, 14 July 2024 (UTC)


 * In my opinion, it makes it seem like we are going to list every country with a reaction to the shooting, which we are not. Also, I don't know if there's such a precedent in other articles. J cool bro   (talk) (c) 02:37, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * seems silly that this isnt precedent? where do we argue for new precedents? NotQualified (talk) 02:38, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Are entire countries suddenly not notable anymore? Trade (talk) 02:41, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * They aren't when they just mention that they don't believe a thing was good. That's like if I was mentioned in an article on the penny because I gave a high school presentation on them being useless. It doesn't impact what the Treasury thinks about them. It's insubstantial. Ornov Ganguly (talk) 02:46, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * There are 200 countries, give or take. Most leaders will have a take on a shooting. Heaven forbid we include them all.  Bremps  ...  03:32, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * This article is a mess right now. Give it 24 hours and things will calm down a bit. Then we'll be able to handle sections like that. That being said,, mind explaining? I believe all these reactions have no business being here, at any rate. Ornov Ganguly (talk) 02:38, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * There's already discussion on whether to even keep the international responses in Talk:2024 shooting at a Donald Trump rally. Flags are totally unnecessary and irrelevant. guninvalid (talk) 02:38, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * > Flags are totally unnecessary and irrelevant.
 * it's an international response section...? NotQualified (talk) 02:39, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Editors despise those flag salads, and the whole section is being discussed above, where consensus is developing that it is unencyclopedic. Abductive  (reasoning) 02:41, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 14 July 2024 (2)
Change X: "On social media, there were widespread claims by left-wing accounts stating that the event was a false flag, that Trump wasn't shot, and that those who died were crisis actors.[168]" to Y: [empty] Simply put this source is "The Daily Dot" an unreputable source which uses anonymous twitter accounts, and deleted tweets to tie a loose correlation that there are 'left-wing accounts stating it was a false-flag'

Simply put, the source just isn't wikipedia's standard. AustralopithecusSurfer (talk) 18:14, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I've removed the Daily Dot source and replaced it with the existing BBC source which says the same thing  Eve rgr een Fir  (talk) 18:23, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Add pinpoint to map for location of shooter
The shooter was located a couple hundred feet to the north at the nearest building outside of the venue. https://i.imgur.com/41KT0Wx.png Michiganguy123 (talk) 02:03, 14 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Hi, do you have a reliable source? @Michiganguy123 Star action  ( talk  &#124;  contribs ) 02:04, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/07/13/us/trump-rally-shooting-maps-photos.html
 * Will this work Michiganguy123 (talk) 02:04, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Another source
 * https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/secret-service-rushes-trump-stage-shots-fired-pennsylvania-rally-rcna161735 Michiganguy123 (talk) 02:11, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Yep, both sources qualify, and I've added it to the body of the article. I won't mess with the map for now since I don't want to mess it up, but another editor who is more skilled than I am with those should. Star action  ( talk  &#124;  contribs ) 02:12, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

"At least 3, including Donald Trump"
Can anyone find a quote in the article that explicitly confirms the number of injured as being greater than or equal to 3? I can't due to the paywall Trade (talk) 01:49, 14 July 2024 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure it's really necessary. Pretty hard to dispute given that Trump was injured and 2 died. Or maybe I'm just a silly little bean guninvalid (talk) 01:54, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * That only gives 1 injured and two deaths Trade (talk) 02:22, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * @Trade, which article? If you have Chrome, here's a page archiver extension you can use to view most online news articles. —  That Coptic Guy ping me! (talk) (contribs) 01:56, 14 July 2024 (UTC)


 * From various sources, we have: Trump injured; shooter killed; one rally attendee dead; one do. seriously wounded; one do. slightly wounded. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 01:57, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Were those actually gunshot wounds or just the result of a stampede? The last two Trade (talk) 02:22, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * There was no stampede. Ronan.Iroha (talk) 11:52, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Michigan's governor is not a federal official
, did you mean to move Gretchen Whitmer's statement from "state officials" to "federal officials" in this edit? If so, would you be willing to explain why? — Red-tailed hawk  (nest) 00:10, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Additionally, please join this discussion. Ornov Ganguly (talk) 00:12, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I didn't make any major change beside add a hyperlink to the 2011 shooting, however I'll take note on that Wikieism (talk) 04:07, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * This looks to be just an accidental edit conflict. Same minute as the edit that moved it from federal to state.  --Super Goku V (talk) 07:38, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 14 July 2024 (5)
Change “Injured” to “Wounded”

Injured is when you fall out of a tree or something… 96.224.221.126 (talk) 20:38, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: I mean, not really.  Nythar  (💬-🍀) 20:55, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Celebrities inclusion
Add Tim Cook and Satya Nadella to reactions. Many prominent figures missing. Is there a consensus about inclusion? https://x.com/tim_cook/status/1812291847378600366 https://x.com/satyanadella/status/1812296545725006290 207.96.32.81 (talk) 20:24, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the template. – Muboshgu (talk) 20:30, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Also required better sources to justify inclusion. – Muboshgu (talk) 20:31, 14 July 2024 (UTC)


 * IMO, politicians past and former, heads of state, and the like are the ones who would have an inclusion-worthy opinion on an assassination attempt. We should not clog this article with business leaders, pundits, or actors. Zaathras (talk) 20:50, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 14 July 2024 (3)
The "International" section featuring political leaders that condemned the shooting. I would just like to add addition political figures that weren't mentioned and make the entire thing more organized as it is a little confusing to read as of right now.

example: Anwar Ibrahim of Malaysia (source: https://www.thestar.com.my/news/nation/2024/07/14/violence-is-never-the-solution-pm-says-on-trump-assassination-attempt) DDashElixir (talk) 14:15, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I do not think we should have an all inclusive list. Slatersteven (talk) 14:17, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 14 July 2024 (7)
https://x.com/AbiyAhmedAli/status/1812423823779655948

Ethiopian PM Abiy Ahmed Ali has released a statement about the assassination attempt, so please add him and this as well. IGotAPHD (talk) 13:57, 14 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Can't find any reliable sources reporting this. If the only source is Twitter right now, it should probably wait.  C F A   💬  15:52, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * @CFA, respectfully disagree.
 * As per WP:SOCIALMEDIA, since this seems to be his official twitter account, it would be accurate to state that he said it, since it was not a claim about something made without a reliable source, in which case it would, of course, be completely unacceptable, but a simple statement made by himself. 88.18.180.40 (talk) 17:20, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Sure, but all the other reactions are cited by independent sources. Most people seem to agree that we do not need to mention every world leader who reacts to this event (see the other sections on this talk page), so reactions without coverage in independent, reliable sources will not be included for now.  C F A   💬  17:25, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Inaccuracy of $15 donation
The $15 donation remark should be deleted as it's speculation. The city listed on the donation does not match Thomas' (Bethel Park), the full name is not mentioned, and there is a Thomas Crooks in a northern suburb of Pittsburgh (the city listed); he works for a construction company and volunteers at a local YMCA. Who is much older and still alive.

Special:Contributions/2603:6011:A600:84B1:B196:E0F:2E48:A108|2603:6011:A600:84B1:B196:E0F:2E48:A108]] (talk) 13:27, 14 July 2024 (UTC)


 * This remark is supported by reliable sources. Do you have any reliable sources disputing this report? Kcmastrpc (talk) 14:21, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * How about the first part sources of the FEC website and the Pennsylvania Voter Registration role. AddInfinty (talk) 15:00, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * As noted above, it is supported by reliable sources. Wikipedia's job is to report what reliable, independent sources are reporting. If they make a mistake, we make a mistake. If any reliable sources come out disputing this claim, that can be included in the article.  C F A   💬  15:42, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Ear
It wasn’t a bullet they said they believe it was glass shards from the teleprompter that hit him in the ear, not a bullet. 2A01:E11:7000:470:455E:9927:8CC2:2474 (talk) 11:25, 14 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made.  Lord ' serious ' pig  11:29, 14 July 2024 (UTC)


 * This article posts rather convincing evidence that it was in fact a bullet which tore into his ear: Shocking Photos Show Bullet Whizzing Past Trump After Tearing Through Ear Marcus Markup (talk) 11:46, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * ^ Joshsintrests (talk) 15:18, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

4chan
Hey! Just wanted to let you guys know we got a thread up about this page on 4chan, 8chan and a few other sites lol. We're laughing at y'all. Good luck! /pol/ - wikitroons melting down over iconic Trump pic http - Politically Incorrect - 4chan 2603:9001:300:81A:E40E:619C:44DE:86C (talk) 21:16, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Have fun! Joe  (talk) 21:19, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

protected edit request to fix a typo
reference 34, ""TTrump Rally Shooting..." is a typo; it should say ""Trump Rally Shooting..." Usernames containing this string are often helpful in nature (talk) 20:39, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Pictogram voting wait.svg Already done  Eve rgr een Fir  (talk) 21:21, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Should we have a Conspiracy Theory section?
I've been trying to add a section for conspiracy theories, as many articles regarding similar incidents frequently have specific sections for conspiracy theories, but it's been deleted twice, so as not to fall foul of 3RR, I'm bringing it up here.

The text was as follows: "After the assassination attempt, conspiracy theories quickly accumulated millions of views on social media. On X, conspiracy theories "gained traction just minutes after the incident occurred", the word “staged” becoming the second-highest trending topic immediately after “Trump”. "Antifa" also became a top trending topic after posts on X blamed the shooting on a “prominent Antifa activist”, falsely identifying him as "Mark Violets" using a photograph of Marco Violi, an Italian soccer vlogger. Alex Jones livestreamed and made posts blaming "the deep state", and highly followed QAnon-related accounts shared names of high-profile Democrats and Republicans, accusing them of colluding with the CIA. "

Here are some further articles demonstrating the volume of conspiracies that have arisen from this incident:

https://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-pennsylvania-rally-incident-reactions-conspiracies-2024-7

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/13/us/politics/trump-rally-disinformation-x-social-media.html

EDIT: another from WaPo https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/07/14/trump-shooting-conspiracy-theories/

Cheers, all Tdmurlock (talk) 04:30, 14 July 2024 (UTC)


 * I am really not sure we need to have this stuff in there at all. An extremely dramatic high-profile event happened, in which some guy tried to shoot a current presidential candidate (and former president) -- of course there are doing to be kooks on the Internet saying "da masonz" or "da alienz" or "da jooz" or whatever shit idiot brain fungus they're cooking up this week. Morons tend to say this kind of stuff any time anything happens ever. I don't really think it is that noteworthy unless there ends up being some unusually high amount of brain fungus here. Compared to, say, the normal amount of brain fungus that happens around American presidential elections (and around American presidential assassination attempts) it seems like this is pretty normal and expected. jp</b>×<b style="color: #029D74">g</b>🗯️</b> 04:43, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I would. Vinnylospo (talk) 06:04, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I've seen lots of people speculating and spreading theories on it; beyond the typical conspiracy-brained nutjob types. It seems totally fair to address these conspiracy theories on the page. MattiasLikesOxygen (talk) 06:28, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * "Beyond the typical conspiracy-brained nutjob types" ? In which way, please ? Vainzen (talk) 15:03, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I would add it. It's mentioned in RS and probably necessary for due weight. Don't add too much because it's very early and they will obviously develop.  C F A   💬  04:33, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * This should only be added when things quiet down, otherwise it could just fuel the fire of conspiracies even further. Bill Williams 04:40, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I concur with Bill. Unless it's REALLY big now and the media is reporting on it (3+ dedicated articles, perhaps), we might just make things worse. Ornov Ganguly 04:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Agree with Bill and Ogan Nickm57 (talk) 06:27, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Fourthed. People are spreading all sorts of disinfo/misinfo on social media, it's likely that 99% of it is not going to be encyclopedically relevant. Titanium Dragon  (talk) 07:48, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Fifthed. Though I think it would be a great addition, it is too soon. Moosetwin (talk) 09:39, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Name on time where that actually happened Trade (talk) 12:48, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * This is currently mentioned in the last phrase of "Reactions" and seems to be OK this way. Saying that, all experts agree it was a huge blunder by the Secret Service, which of course will fuel various "theories"; some well known bloggers are debating them. My very best wishes (talk) 16:05, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I would say no. Any controversial event will generate conspiracy theories. Not notable (as of now) to be mentioned. --User:WoodElf 16:26, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * More sources are making a conspiracy theories section look due, probably as part of the aftermath section:
 * https://www.itv.com/news/2024-07-14/trumps-assassination-attempt-ignites-new-divisions-and-conspiracy-theories
 * https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/internet/trump-rally-shooting-conspiracy-theories-flourish-online-rcna161752
 * The fact there are conspiracy theories for nearly every major event is not a reason to exclude them. Just follow RS coverage; currently there are five reliable sources documenting such theories, making it very much due by now. CNC (talk) 16:36, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Add also https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/us-news/trump-assassination-attempt-a-result-of-the-worst-negligence-in-history-or-an-inside-job-conspiracies-take-flight-101720954660798.html ― Howard • 🌽33 16:37, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * And another from The Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jul/14/cool-heads-needed-as-political-fringe-dwellers-spread-disinformation-after-trump-shooting. "Social media was instantly flooded with hyperbole, lies, conspiracy theories and uninformed nonsense about the shooting." Sounds relevant, given the context. CNC (talk) 16:46, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * @Tdmurlock the talk page is the conspiracy theory section Bjngobkngo (talk) 17:59, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

[container section] <b style="font-family: monospace; color:#E35BD8"><b style="color:#029D74">jp</b>×<b style="color: #029D74">g</b>🗯️</b> 21:28, 14 July 2024 (UTC)


 * This does not seem remotely helpful...  Eve rgr een Fir  (talk) 21:29, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * For God's sake, give me a minute. This talk page is so jacked up I am having to split things back in from two separate archives. <b style="font-family: monospace; color:#E35BD8"><b style="color:#029D74">jp</b>×<b style="color: #029D74">g</b>🗯️</b> 21:31, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * The above archived discussion was about proposing a conspiracy theories section. Now there is one, the discussion is unquestionably redundant. It'd be better just to add links to previous discussions. CNC (talk) 21:35, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

NY Post posits suspect ID (renamed from "Attack")
The news has identified as being the gunman who was neutralized by the counter-strike Secret Service sniper team behind former President Trump and to his left. apparently was atop a building (Building 6) in a complex (American Glass Research International, Inc.) in Butler. Delectable1 (talk) 04:06, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Man, it's insane how good the secret service is. JDiala (talk) 04:09, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * is the alleged shooter's name, not . I'd like to wait a bit as more sources corroborate it. Raskuly (talk) 04:10, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * [[File:Webcomic xkcd - Wikipedian protester cropped.png]]  Bremps  ...  04:12, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * , ya. Delectable1 (talk) 04:13, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * WP:BLP applies on talk pages, including WP:BLPCRIME; please make sure to always include citations with claims like this. Dylnuge  (Talk • Edits) 04:16, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * (And yes, I recognize that if true, the claim is not about a living person, but I also remember the misidentification of the Sandy Hook shooter; it's better to be slow and right than fast and wrong on these things) Dylnuge  (Talk • Edits) 04:18, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * NY Post does report ID’d as gunman who shot Trump during Pa. rally
 * However I could not find any other source stating the ID of the gunman. SKAG123 (talk) 04:26, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * , ya, that's the name. Delectable1 (talk) 04:22, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Don't add it yet. WP:NYPOST is not reliable and has been the only source to report it.  C F A   💬  04:37, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * posted on his social media profile, that he is still very much alive. Worstbull (talk) 04:45, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * It is entirely possible there is more than one person with this name. Two different people with same first and last name is actually rather common. Two different people with same first, last and middle name, is rarer, but far from impossible. For all we know, maybe the name reported by the NY Post is correct, and the person posting on social media they are still alive just happens to have the misfortune of being named identically. SomethingForDeletion (talk) 05:33, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I think their point was there was an image being circulated of the supposed shooter that was actually just taken off of an unrelated person's social media. The name of the shooter has still not been confirmed; it's all speculation by the New York Post.  C F A   💬  05:39, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * It has been confirmed by now, the updated article reflects this. https://www.reuters.com/world/us/fbi-identifies-thomas-matthew-crooks-subject-involved-trump-rally-shooting-2024-07-14/
 * One of the circulated images of the alleged shooter, was of an unrelated Twitter user. Worstbull (talk) 06:10, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * One of the circulated images of the alleged shooter, was of an unrelated Twitter user. Worstbull (talk) 06:10, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Not being able to agree on the given name is always a great sign--Trade (talk) 04:15, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Is there a link / source ? I can't find any info about him online. Ikmxx (talk) 04:17, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

*::FBI has identified the shooter (the same name mentioned from NYPOST) as per MSNBC, CNN, NYT, FOXNEWS, CNBC and multiple other sources. Should be added to article! Poplicolascribere (talk) 05:45, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * There is no reason to trip over our shoelaces doing Reddit nonsense trying to e-detective the identity of some random guy who just did the most notorious crime of the decade. I am pretty sure they're going to figure out who the guy is, seeing as he tried to assassinate the damn former President and current candidate -- in about fifteen seconds we will have actual confirmation of his identity, and in the meantime, we are not going to accuse some random-ass dude who has a 5, 50% or 95% chance of being the right one -- the world's fifth-most-visited website does not need to be publicly making false accusations on its page for the most notorious crime of the decade. <b style="font-family: monospace; color:#E35BD8"><b style="color:#029D74">jp</b>×<b style="color: #029D74">g</b>🗯️</b> 04:19, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Fair point. Ikmxx (talk) 04:34, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * And just noting that I've removed the name per WP:BLPCRIME until there is sufficient reliable sourcing. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 04:48, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Everyone knows that it was now. Delectable1 (talk) 05:58, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I won't link to it, but I will note a number of global media outlets (e.g. Sky News Australia, Israel Hayom) are now reporting the same name, albeit with attribution to NY Post. Still not officially confirmed by the authorities, though. SomethingForDeletion (talk) 05:29, 14 July 2024 (UTC)


 * As reported, . Delectable1 (talk) 06:06, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Meaning of "Let me get my shoes"
Trump's words seconds after he was shot. What does he wanted to tell us? 2A02:810D:A240:15B8:C5F6:28C5:87C1:B6C1 (talk) 23:52, 14 July 2024 (UTC)


 * It doesn't seem like a hidden meaning at all. Most likely that his shoes flew off in the chaos.  Liliana UwU  (talk / contributions) 00:02, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Um, he probably lost one or both shoes when secret service piled onto him after he got shot? Personally, I don't think it's that deep lol. User:WoodElf 00:03, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

Lead is misleading
It reads as if Trump is currently the President. HiLo48 (talk) 23:23, 14 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Yup; edited to replace "45th" with "former." Levivich (talk) 23:26, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Please link to
2024 Republican National Convention instead of linking to Republican National Convention. 86.31.178.164 (talk) 21:41, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * The 2024 Republican National Convention page is already linked earlier in the page. Joe  (talk) 21:44, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 15 July 2024
change "...Greece,[154] Guatemala,[155] India,[155] Hungary,[155] India,[155] Indonesia,[156] Ireland,[157] Israel,[158]..." to "...Greece,[154] Guatemala,[155] * Hungary,[155] India,[155] Indonesia,[156] Ireland,[157] Israel,[158]..." Unnamed&#38;co (talk) 01:06, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Done... - Adolphus79 (talk) 01:10, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

National File publishes photo of alleged assassin on Twitter (NSFW)
The link the the photo can be found in the Category:2024 shooting at a Donald Trump rally category at Commons

Is this an reliable source? Trade (talk) 03:22, 14 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Alex Jones' National File? Probably not. KiharaNoukan (talk) 03:24, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Think the United States Department of Homeland Security employee license is legit? Trade (talk) 03:25, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I would bet that it's legit, but I'm not sure it's usable. Also the pic is removed as of right now. KiharaNoukan (talk) 03:26, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I've seen that photo elsewhere. I'd want a bit more certainty that it's a Federal official who took that photo, since state and local police were also involved in the response. — Red-tailed hawk  (nest) 03:26, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * No, per WP:INFOWARS. Also probably wouldn't suit the article anyways due to its graphic nature. Star action  ( talk  &#124;  contribs ) 03:24, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Yeah i would probably not have bothered if i knew that Info went under multiple different names Trade (talk) 03:31, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * If you wanted to evaluate the usability of a source, I have WP:RSP bookmarked. It's super helpful to me! Star action  ( talk  &#124;  contribs ) 03:32, 14 July 2024 (UTC)


 * no evidence image was from homeland security (metadata was completely clean).©Geni (talk) 03:35, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 14 July 2024 (4)
New Map Updated! Please update article with the new map: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:2024_Trump_Assassination_Attempt_Map.jpg MediaGuy768 (talk) 12:17, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * X mark.svg Not done The new map has a license not compatible with Commons and will be deleted. --Hammersoft (talk) 12:21, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * It's CC-BY-SA. It's allowable.  Bremps  ...  13:59, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Misspelling in the Olaf Scholz's surname
We've got this fragment in the article: "Chancellor Olaf Schloz of Germany condemned the shooting as an "attack on democracy". Can someone with extended confirmed permissions fix this typo? Thanks in advance, Karol739 (talk) 17:19, 15 July 2024 (UTC)


 * ✅. Thank you for pointing this out.  C F A   💬  17:45, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

refine Washington Post cite giving age
currently is numbered as citation 30

More specific link to post rather than whole liveblog is available and should perhaps be preferred ?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/07/13/2024-election-campaign-updates-biden-trump-rally/#link-4MOOJP5R7BDUDELTHA5TKAAHIY Donald Guy (talk) 05:23, 14 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Byline ( Devlin Barrett and Alex Horton ) or ~title might also be worth including in cite Donald Guy (talk) 05:26, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Too Soon?
How is there ANY Wikipedia article on this topic considering, at this early point (less than 6 hours), there isn't any reliable reporting of facts from investigative sources. Editing of this article should be locked for at least a few days until the real facts are reported. For cryin' out loud… This is a very good example why educational institutions do not allow student researchers use Wikipedia as a citable source for their class papers. — TadgStirkland401  (TadgTalk) 03:38, 14 July 2024 (UTC)


 * What part of the article is wrong? Trade (talk) 03:39, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * No one knows what is "wrong" with the article for the same reason that no one knows what is "right" with it. Can't you see the obviousness of that as evidenced by all the differing opinions shared already on this talk page? — TadgStirkland401  (TadgTalk) 03:54, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * A cluttered talk page isn't an issue. It just means that there are a larger amount of discussions happening than the average.  --Super Goku V (talk) 08:39, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Yes, yes. Fog of war. We're all familiar. Ornov Ganguly (talk) 03:41, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * While Wikipedia is not a crystal ball, as you state, there are certain lines that this article has already passed. For instance, we can be sure that some shooting event did occur today, and that it was at a Trump rally, based off the reliable sources cited. As such, we ought to cover it, since it meets notability. Editing of this article is already locked to extended-protected reviewers due to fear of vandalism. Finally, I don't see how your point about class papers is relevant to meaningful critique of the content in the article. It may be true, but we are Wikipedia, and it's not necessarily a bad thing that Wikipedia isn't used as a citable source for class papers. Star action  ( talk  &#124;  contribs ) 03:41, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Not being argumentative, but based on what you just stated, at this point this article should only contain 2 sentences… It happened, and where. Absolutely nothing else is reliable information and therefore doesn't belong yet — TadgStirkland401  (TadgTalk) 03:58, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I was just giving an example there. The information that is in the article is ideally backed up by reliable sources, like any article on Wikipedia. If it's not backed up, it should be removed. I don't see why this should be disregarded simply because the article is recent. After all, it can always be changed as more information is relayed. Star action  ( talk  &#124;  contribs ) 04:00, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Sorry. I didn't mean to suggest it "should be disregarded simply because the" event "is recent". I am convinced that there is no reliable reporting from any source at this point. We should not think a source is reliable just because they published an article themselves about it. The information reported is aggressively changing moment-by-moment. Based on Wikipedia policy, swiftly changing reports should not be considered "reliable". All I'm suggesting is a day or two before rushing to publish what is not even close to factual yet. —  TadgStirkland401  (TadgTalk) 04:14, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * 1) The article is properly tagged with "This article documents a current event" just for that reason. That's the guideline here.  That doesn't change just because it's contentious.
 * 2) "Reliable reporting" is not analogous with "correct reporting". "Reliable reporting" would be giving the proper hedging and disclaimers with information being provided with the understanding that some of it is probably going to turn out to be incorrect.  If there's a particular source where reporting is being made on something without providing such proper context, then specify the source and request it be removed and/or replaced by a better source.  Per WP:Reliable_sources#Breaking_news "Breaking-news reports often contain serious inaccuracies.  As an electronic publication, Wikipedia can and should be up to date, but Wikipedia is not a newspaper and it does not need to go into all details of a current event in real time."
 * So, what has you "convinced that there is no reliable reporting from any source at this point"? Leafsdude (talk) 04:56, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Pray tell, then. What are those two sentences? Ornov Ganguly (talk) 04:01, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * A shooting happened. It was at a Trump rally. —  TadgStirkland401  (TadgTalk) 04:15, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I mean, like, we have high-resolution photos and statements from everybody involved detailing the whole timeline of the event. Is there any actual specific claim about this that's in doubt? The identity of the dude may not be known, but I feel like the basic bones of it are pretty obvious: the time, the place, the dude's ear getting blown off, et cetera. It's not like in two weeks we're going to suddenly decide that this isn't noteworthy. <b style="font-family: monospace; color:#E35BD8"><b style="color:#029D74">jp</b>×<b style="color: #029D74">g</b>🗯️</b> 04:59, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Are you contending, then, that we have no reliable reporting that 3 people in the crowd were shot and 1 is dead? That witnesses and law enforcement did not identify the weapon as an AK-style assault rifle?  That it is not being investigated as an attempted assassination?  That Trump didn't post to social media that he was shot in the ear?  That various other political figures in the US and globally didn't post their own responses on social media?
 * If not, then why only those two lines? How can you justify removing those bits of information? Leafsdude (talk) 05:02, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * An AR, but otherwise correct. <b style="font-family: monospace; color:#E35BD8"><b style="color:#029D74">jp</b>×<b style="color: #029D74">g</b>🗯️</b> 05:36, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I agree that there is going to be a lot of things written in this article that will later be altered in one way or another and there will potentially be bad actors in spite of the raised article protection it would be absurd to completely lock an article from editing when undoubtedly there are many people across the world visiting it right now. Raskuly (talk) 03:42, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * So we should accept unreliable reporting on Wikipedia with the excuse that lot's of people are visiting the page? — TadgStirkland401  (TadgTalk) 04:01, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * No, this article will be chaotic for awhile but efforts are being made by a multitude of Wikipedians to work towards this being as accurate as possible and weed out inaccuracies. If we refused to write about any current or trending event we'd have to wait up to potentially weeks before we were able to begin. Raskuly (talk) 04:07, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Like what, there's no way to know what happened? There were like eight bazillion people there including news reporters who were taking high-resolution photos the entire time; it's far and away the biggest story of the day, the week, who knows maybe of the year. What aspect of this is in doubt?? <b style="font-family: monospace; color:#E35BD8"><b style="color:#029D74">jp</b>×<b style="color: #029D74">g</b>🗯️</b> 04:12, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

The Evan Nucci photo deserves its own article
This might be one of the most important photos of our lifetime. Vinnylospo (talk) 06:12, 14 July 2024 (UTC)


 * I think it will be just fine being contained here. Similar to how the "photo op" in front of the Church is an article about the photo, not necessarily about the hundreds of people who got teargassed.  CNC33  (. . .talk)  06:15, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I'm betting it will win a Pulitzer, but it can get its own article when that happens. It also needs to be expanded on in Evan's article. Otherwise it can be highlighted here. Bill Williams 06:18, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I strongly agree with your statement on the incredible significance of the image. However, I think it is too early to give it an article. It might be WP:TOOSOON. A draft article, however, could be created for the time being if anyone is up for it. (Discuss 0nshore's contributions!!!) 06:22, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * United States ≠ The World, you know. Cremastra (talk) 10:16, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * There is now an article about this photo at Donald Trump raised fist photograph Hallucegenia (talk) 12:34, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Too early to include the suspected attempted assasssinstor?
I feel like it’s too early to include the shooter’s name, as the FBI hasn’t yet completely confirmed it was Thomas Matthew Crooks. They labeled him as “suspected.” The FBI can still make mistakes in their investigations. CavDan24 (talk) 13:01, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Scale
As good as it is, File:Assassination attempt of Donald Trump diagram.svg needs a scale. Butler Farm Show is not that big; its own website doesn't even have a map, and there are no available photos on Flickr. In this wise someone could work with these references (I would just blunder into WP:0R). Many thanks.

20m Google Street View: https://www.google.com/maps/place/625+Evans+City+Rd,+Butler,+PA+16001/@40.8565059,-79.9740554,18.3z/data=!4m6!3m5!1s0x88337d9a7cacc431:0xf6d2754d77e912cb!8m2!3d40.8570127!4d-79.9745256!16s%2Fg%2F11dztqkf87?entry=ttu

Butler Show Farm Airport https://www.airnav.com/airport/3G9

Moar Google: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Butler+Farm+Show+Airport/@40.856957,-79.9750932,399m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x88337d8582485813:0xd213dbafea4653df!8m2!3d40.8535953!4d-79.974522!16s%2Fg%2F1yg6p5b7_?entry=ttu

kencf0618 (talk) 13:01, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

P.S. I see that Wikimedia Maps goes down to 20m; 50m covers the fairgrounds and its immediately vicinity nicely. kencf0618 (talk) 13:12, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

What is going on with the reference archives?
Does anyone know what is up with the archive links for the refs? All three of us have done them for this page, but they seem to keep disappearing. How is this happening? Is this some kind of arseways VE bug? What's going on? <b style="font-family: monospace; color:#E35BD8"><b style="color:#029D74">jp</b>×<b style="color: #029D74">g</b>🗯️</b> 06:28, 14 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Someone is writing something. They see an edit conflict. They think "screw it", and just copy-paste their version into the page, ignoring the edit conflict, and deleting any edits that they conflicted with. — Red-tailed hawk  (nest) 06:29, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Also, I really recommend that you do not archive any of the live links. It's completely misleading because the life information is frequently updating, so much of the archived information is outdated. Bill Williams 06:34, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * The point of archiving the live links is so that one can see exactly what one cited at a particular time (ideally, very close to when that link is added to the article). Isn't that something we would want archived? — Red-tailed hawk  (nest) 06:37, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * The counter arguement is that by archiving pages that are still live, we're just bulking up the article. IA will archive them anyway if they are added to the article, if I've understood their methods correctly. Mdann52 (talk) 13:15, 14 July 2024 (UTC)