Talk:Auckland CBD

Unreferenced section
I know some will consider this total overkill, but I wrote this article paying careful attention that everything is referenced. The following section, which I removed from the main article again, certainly sounds okay and well-thought-out. But we need references for this stuff, and preferrably page-numbers too (it seems to come from a book).

Please provide references, anonymous - if not, we can use the below for research to improve the article, but that will take a lot longer. Ingolfson (talk) 08:10, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

START REMOVED SECTION

The area currently referred to as the Auckland CBD occupies the site of early Auckland.

1840-1865

From the founding of the new capital in 1841 until the 1860s the urban part of Auckland was quite small. The fore shore was located at Foreshore Street [now Fort Street] and the southernmost extremity round about what is now Victoria Street. To the west the town extended along the foreshore to 'brick bay" [now Fanshawe Street] and Freemans Bay; these areas included many industries including shipyards and brick kilns as well as much cheap lower class housing. To the east were located the quality areas of town centred around the Governor's residence in Waterloo Quadrant. Around Government House were built most of the more expensive houses in early Auckland [this area is now mostly occupied by the University].

There was a right and a wrong side to Queen Street based upon this east/west layout. Shortland Street and the east side of Queen Street were the location of most of the luxury shops and financial houses while the west side had the cheaper shops along with the prison, the gallows, and the dogpound, etc. During this period most buildings, even very prestigious ones were constructed of wood. One of the few non-wooden buildings on Queen Street was the Bank of New Zealand of 1865.

The first twenty five years were a time of prosperity for the town of Auckland; it was the capital of the new colony and the centre of much military activity during the New Zealand Wars. As the closest major port to the Coromandel when gold was discovered there, there was a considerable onflow effect for Auckland. Other major exports of this period were timber, kauri gum, and wool.

1865-1890

After 1865 when the capital was moved to Wellington, economic development slowed in Auckland; along with a downturn in the goldfields there was an agricultural depression in the 1870s, followed by a stock market crash in 1886. Auckland's prosperity remained fairly good even during times of economic hardship simply because most shipping in or out of New Zealand tended to come through either Onehunga or Auckland. Auckland also serviced the many small village centres developing nearby; Parnell, Newmarket, Epsom, Newton, Ponsonby, along with towns further out; Panmure, Otahuhu, Onehunga, Avondale, Henderson etc. By the 1890s the areas of Newton and Ponsonby had developed into suburban extensions of the town and Karangahape Road had developed into a significant shopping street.

During this period many buildings on Queen Street were rebuilt in brick and several prestigious structures were constructed; for example the Art Gallery, Library & Municipal Chambers of 1887 [now Auckland Art Gallery]. The waterfront was extended northwards from Fort Street to Customs Street and a new Customs House constructed [1888].

1890-1920

This period saw Auckland growing very quickly. Its population virtually doubled between 1900-1920. Several mayors during this period, most prominently Arthur Myers, tried to grapple with a larger vision for the Queen City, not always successfully. For example one of Myers' projects, Grafton Bridge, was seen by many as a profligate waste of ratepayers' money. The building of the new Town Hall in 1911 on the "wrong side" of Queen Street is an indication of how the social climate was changing.

The completion of the railway Main Trunk Line in 1908 put an end to the long established shipping routes south from Onehunga to Wanganui and Wellington but ushered in a new period of major rail expansion. The waterfront was again extended northwards to Quay Street; amongst other buildings constructed on the reclaimed land were the new General Post Office of 1912 [John Campbell architect] and behind it the Auckland Railway Station. Several other reclamation projects were entered into at this time; Mechanics Bay was filled in to create the new railway station & shunting yards, and rail lines built along the new Quay Street. Freemans Bay was reclaimed to create a new public facility, Victoria Park. Other public facilities included the Tepid Baths [1910], the Campbell Free Kindergarten [1912] and the Myers Free Kindergarten [1916].

The construction of the electric tram system in 1902 meant an increase in retail activity on both Queen St, Karangahape Rd, and upper Symonds St as travel around Auckland became cheaper and more reliable; this had a considerable effect on the shops of the CBD and many firms expanded and rebuilt their premises.

1920-1940

The 1920s were a prosperous time; a great deal of New Zealand's exports and imports moved through Auckland's wharves. It was around this time that Auckland started to become the major population centre of New Zealand.

This is when the CBD or Central Business District came into being, with fewer people living in the area and a greater proportion of offices to retail activities becoming obvious. The CBD was the location of several large specialist shops and many department stores which were the basis of much retail activity [Farmers, John Courts, Smith & Caughey's, Milne & Choyce, J. R. McKenzies, George Courts, Rendells]. Late night shopping became very popular, going to the cinema a major draw for the CBD.

Taller buildings were constructed in Auckland with most of the biggest ones being in the Queen Street valley. These were the result not only of new construction techniques such as reinforced concrete but also because of the advent of the electric lift. Previously people baulked at walking up more than three storeys but now buildings of up to nine storeys appeared. The former South British Insurance Building of 1929, 5-13 Shortland Street is an excellent example of this type of structure.

Most large NZ firms and many international ones felt the need to maintain a presence on Queen Street and a number of prestige flagship buildings were constructed or earlier premises rebuilt. Examples are: the Dilworth Building of 1927, The Guardian Trust Building; 105 Queen Street, and the Auckland Electric Power Board building of 1927.

At this time the continued potential for the growth of Auckland seemed so assured that it was assumed that the Queen St valley would prove too small. The railway station was moved from the bottom of Queen St to the east, with a magnificent new structure [1930] being erected in Beach Road. This building was intended to be the focus of the new CBD district although no retail or financial businesses actually ever relocated from Queen St and with the exception of the Railway Hotel, no real development of the area ever took place.

Although a number of apartment blocks were constructed during the 1920s [Courtville, Waterloo Quadrant; Hampton Court, Federal St; Windsor Towers & Westminister Court, Parliament St; Mayfair, Parnell Rise; Ascot, Newton Road; Espana Flats, Poynton Terrace] the residential population decreased during this period. On the east side of town the cheaper shoddy houses in Albert, Hobson, and Nelson Streets began to be replaced by light industry or warehousing while the formerly prestigious houses of Princes Street and Symonds Street were utilised mostly as boarding houses. The establishment of Auckland University in the Albert Park area helped in the transformation of this area but it was mainly due to changing social habits as the new generation forsook their parents' gloomy homes in favour of new houses in Remuera.

In the two-mile zone surrounding the CBD, there were approximately 70,000 people in 1926. The world wide Depression of the 1930s meant comparatively little development in Auckland's CBD. As the economy recovered a number of interesting buildings were built, such as the Dingwall Building of 1935, the Jean Batten State Building and the Auckland Harbour Board Workshops all of which are examples of the streamline Moderne style.

1940-1960

Auckland's CBD was at the centre of a great deal of activity during the Second World War. Obviously with the Waitemata Harbour, the Devonport Naval Base and the Auckland Railway Station there was a large number of military personnel moving through Auckland at all times. Many of the command centres were located in the CBD; the American Military HQ was in the Jean Batten Building for example and George Courts was the Air Raid Central Command.

Entertainment became very important and the cinemas, theatres and nightspots of the period thronged with patrons. During this period Queen St boasted about nine cinemas. Conversely wartime rationing had a deadening effect on retailing as many items, especially imported ones became unobtainable. Restrictions on private car use meant that the public transport sytems; trams, trains, and ferries were overloaded resulting in the usual rush-hour crush lasting most of the day.

The post World War Two period was a time of prosperity for Auckland as New Zealand's enormous exports to Great Britain resulted in a fairly high standard of living and a stable economy. One of the major problems of the period was the unavailability of many goods and the need to retain wartime rationing until the mid-1950s.

The population of the inner city dropped considerably. The 1940s & 1950s also saw the construction of high rise State Housing blocks on Symonds Street and Greys Avenue, but few if any private developments of high rise residential blocks were built in inner city Auckland between 1930 and the 1980s.

The speedy growth of suburban areas in the post-war period [especially after the construction of the Auckland Harbour Bridge - opened 1959] resulted in a decline for inner city retailing. The major department stores of the CBD did maintain their status for most of the 1950s and 1960s [Farmers, John Courts, Smith & Caughey's, Milne & Choyce, J R McKenzies, George Courts, Rendells] but eventually many of their own suburban branch stores drew customers away from the CBD flagship shops. The dismantling of the electric tram system in 1956 wasn't helpful either. The advent of television in 1960 intitiated a period of decline for the cinema as a popular pastime, with the number of cinemas in the Queen Street valley beginning to decrease.

Some of these losses to the economy of the CBD were offset by the expansion of the University of Auckland in the 1960s & 1970s. The influx of large numbers of university students into inner city Auckland requiring housing, food, study supplies & entertainment were a godsend for many CBD businesses.

1960-1987

From the late 1960s onwards there was a decline in New Zealand's exports, which affected Auckland's CBD as much as elsewhere in the country. This was largely due to the changing economics of the western world and the entry of Britain into the EEC.

This period saw the Auckland City Council begin a campaign of urban renewal. One of the most prominent urban renewal projects in the CBD was the joint redevelopment of "Little Queen Street" by the Auckland City Council and the Auckland Harbour Board. This area, just adjacent to the wharves and opposite the GPO at the bottom of Queen Street had been Auckland's red light district since the 1880s. The area was completely razed and the Downtown Centre constructed on the site. Other notable buildings of the period are; Ellen Melville Hall [1962], City Council Administration Building [1966], and Auckland Public Library [1971].

The population of the inner city was decreasing rapidly; by 1966 the CBD had only 50,000 residents. Some apartment blocks [such as Hampton Court] were fitted out as office blocks. The planned new motorway system worked hand-in-hand with the removal of areas of "slum" housing. The route through Grafton, Newton, and Freemans Bay required the compulsory purchase and demolition of over 15,000 houses. At a conservative estimate this meant that 45,000 people were forced to move out of the immediate vicinity of the CBD within about an eight year period.

The disappearance of this large number of workers and shoppers had a devastating effect on inner city retailing. Karangahape Road and the upper Symonds Street shops were the most affected but Ponsonby Road and the CBD also felt the effect, notwithstanding the presence of the many large department stores which must have softened the blow a bit. By the late 1980s competition from the suburban malls had seen the closure of most of the inner city department stores leaving only Smith & Caugheys, George Courts, Rendells, and Farmers.

The construction of parking buildings in the CBD was an attempt to stop the exodus of retailers & shoppers to suburban shopping malls like Pakuranga. These structures; Victoria St, Downtown Centre, Cross Street & Day St, date from the mid-1960s to the 1980s. The Britomart bus station car parking building was recently demolished as part of the Britomart redevelopment.

The mid-1980s saw a boom period in the New Zealand economy mostly concerned with the stock market and property speculation rather than manufacturing and exporting business as such. This had a disproportionate effect on Auckland's CBD as a spate of demolition and rebuilding resulted in a number of buildings disappearing, His Majesty's Theatre being an obvious example. Completed buildings from this period include the Mid-City Complex and the Aotea Centre [opened 1989].

1987-present.

The stock market crash in the late 1980s meant that a number of ambitious construction projects were abandoned abruptly. The CBD is still dealing with the effects of this period and a number of sites still remain empty and undeveloped 20 years later.

Retailing during this period was reliant upon university students and lunch time shopping by office workers and the steady relocation by firms to suburban office parks was making serious inroads into the viability of many inner city shops. The late 1980s and the 1990s saw the closures of a number of CBD retail outlets including George Courts, Rendells, and Farmers, leaving only Smith & Caughey's as the last department store in the inner city. This was mirrored by the Civic [1929] remaining as the last urban cinema.

Retailing on Queen St seemed under threat at this period. Large stretches of lower Queen St seemed to be occupied by either banks or $2 shops, hardly a good look for the main street of the biggest city in the country. The tourist trade from cruise liners offset some of this decline and a number of new shops opened to service these customers, an example being Louis Vuitton.

Since the late 1990s Queen St has recovered somewhat. New shops have appeared and several important brand names have opened or reopened branches on Queen St. The reopening of a CBD store by Farmers is an interesting example of this [they had closed their Hobson Street flagship store in 1990]. This upturn is partly due to the relocation of the railway terminus back at its original site at the bottom of Queen Street but mostly because of the general increase in the inner city residential population.

At the beginning of the 1990s, only a token population of around 1,400 was still residing within the actual CBD. The construction of many blocks of apartments and the conversion of older buildings to residential use has seen the inner city population burgeon. In 2006 it had risen to 16,000.

Many apartment blocks have appeared in the CBD ranging from the cheap and shoddy through to prestige developments such as Metropolis in High St and the Princes Wharf Hotel/apartment complex. To service the inhabitants of these apartment blocks many small convenience stores have appeared and, behind the Britomart railway terminus, a supermarket.

The advent of containers has seen changing patterns in shipping world wide. Much import/export trade now goes through Tauranga, and although the Ports of Auckland remains busy, one of the issues for Auckland in the first decade of the 21st century is the fate of the waterfront. The redevelopment of the Viaduct Harbour just to the west of lower Queen Street and the new proposals for the former oil depot at Wynyard Point indicate a new direction for the CBD.''

END REMOVED SECTION
 * I think the section is probably not a copyvio, because:


 * I can't find the text anywhere online
 * The text when first entered had some minor spelling mistakes, indicating it wasn't a copy and paste from a commercial source
 * An existing reference, NZHA75, was used to provide additional information not in the previous version. I've checked the ref, it was correct at the time it was added, although subsequent edits have changed the paragraph to a state not really supported by the reference.
 * The same anon made edits to several other related articles at about the same time. Some of these edits were minor improvements to the articles rather than wholesale addition of new text.
 * I think this is a genuine and mostly very useful attempt to improve the article from someone who has good knowledge of local history and has done some research to support their material. Unfortunately, they have not specified what those sources are with the exception noted above.


 * I don't object to your removal of the material as being inadequately sourced, but the material can be readded piecemeal by editors who can find appropriate sources for each paragraph.- gadfium 05:34, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

I added to this article with a sincere desire to add value. It is not from a book as I simply wrote it ad hoc. It would be good to provide references but neither my memory nor supporting literature allows it. Some of which I have provided is theory & speculation and some of it merely common sense, but in that way it is little different from other parts of the article [or for that matter many of the other articles on Wikipedia]. I am appalled by the grammar and logic of the text that replaced my contribution which shows a lack of style and rigour. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.55.241.63 (talk) 11:34, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your contribution. References will be able to be found for much of it.- gadfium 18:40, 30 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I added to this article with a sincere desire to add value.


 * That was not in doubt.


 * It is not from a book as I simply wrote it ad hoc.


 * As I and Gadfium explained, we suspected that, and we did NOT accuse you of copyright violation.


 * Some of which I have provided is theory & speculation and some of it merely common sense, but in that way it is little different from other parts of the article [or for that matter many of the other articles on Wikipedia].


 * You are incorrect. This article is fully referenced, and all statements are based on the references. About the only section that isn't is the three lines in the "History" introduction. What other articles on Wikipedia elsewhere do has no relevance regarding keeping this article well-referenced. Even if it seems pedantic to you - I apologise for that, but I do this EXACTLY because I am fed up with people accusing Wikipedia of being shoddy. So we have to be that way if we want to ensure good-quality data/cites.


 * I am appalled by the grammar and logic of the text that replaced my contribution which shows a lack of style and rigour.


 * And I am 'appalled' that you are apparently so insulted by a standard requirement on Wikipedia that you feel the need to turn around and attack me. If there's a "lack of style", you are welcome to rephrase - that is what Wikipedia open editing is for. If you feel "a lack of rigour", please understand that we are not being paid for this, and are under no obligation to get an article to cover everything that is important from the word "go". In fact, your encounter with Wikipedia's processes is quite typical of someone who knows a lot about the subject at hand, but little about how Wikipedia works. I hope you can come to understand the why and how, and maybe continue to contribute. Ingolfson (talk) 05:43, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Improvement of article class
All recommendations of an class increase for this article Auckland CBD here please. 12 January 2009‎

Economy / Diplomatic missions sections part-removal
Removing the economy section part that listed a number of companies - with Auckland CBD being THE centre of THE city of New Zealand, this list-related section will always be a major issue here, being too long and of little relevance to readers. We cannot fairly represent all companies, come anywhere near completeness, and will open us up to endless discussions of whether a single company is relevant here or not. The concept of "automatic notability" that was mentioned in Talk:Auckland City in regards to the same issue, but is deeply misunderstood. Notability of a company does not provide it with inclusion rights in any potentially related article.

Crucially, I also point to New York City, which has a lengthy economy section, yet doesn't even really discuss any single company at all, except by providing a single Top 25 list that was ranked by an outside reference via a clear criteria (revenue). If you can provide a similar ref for companies in Auckland CBD (Auckland CBD, mind), then we would be happpy to have it. But no adding of individual companies (even with refs) without any rhyme and reason. Ingolfson (talk) 11:53, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Also removed the diplomatic missions section for the same reasons. Ingolfson (talk) 11:58, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Ingolfson's comparisons of Auckland to New York City are incorrect, because New York City has 20 times the population of Auckland City. Auckland City should be compared to Fort Worth, Texas, and Auckland CBD should be compared to Downtown Fort Worth, not Midtown Manhattan. There is 100% rhyme and reason for listing companies headquartered in Auckland CBD. BTW "We cannot fairly represent all companies, come anywhere near completeness, and will open us up to endless discussions of whether a single company is relevant here or not." - We have Notability (companies). Companies that pass that standard, and get their own articles, would be listed. Companies that fail would not. WhisperToMe (talk) 19:46, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Someone please clean up the info table
Sorry but this page clearly looks like crap with that unnecessary 'Orders of magnitude for area' table taking up most of the page width... Presumably someone has broken it with the template, but I have no idea how to fix it. I recommend just writing the area in ha and sq km in parentheses. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.8.215.103 (talk) 15:09, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for pointing it out. It was an error in the infobox template which would have affected several articles.- gadfium 19:26, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

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