Talk:Auditory processing disorder/Archives/2009/June

Editing help needed
This entry is not truly encyclopedic, but reads more like an informational pamphlet, to me. I'm not saying it is inaccurate or poorly written by any means, but what it seems to lack is a comprehensive or coherant explanation for what APD truly is. For this reason it probably deserves a major revision as well as additional information including a diagram or two. FJ | hello  23:48, Jun 3, 2005 (UTC) Oct 2004 in the UK and jan 2005 in the USA. Now that the Professionals and academics have decided on the criteria of APD we can now gain more information to match the new more comprehensive definitions, I will add a link to the new ASHA APD technical report. dolfrog
 * Update: I went ahead and added sections for causes and behavioral manifestations, although more editing is probably in order.    &mdash; FJ |  hello  21:08, Jun 4, 2005 (UTC)
 * APD has only recently had one official defintion in both the UK and the USA.


 * I have added some content to the template haeadings and saved the new version of the page.

dolfrog All seemed to be OK when i left it last night, but not now. dolfrog
 * I have added some text to the template in some recent contributions, but the template seem to not accept the input and reverts to some preset state. my last eddit before the problem arose appears before the version described as Chaos( the result of the preset text). So if a technicla expert could put this right I would greatly appreciate it.

Categorization
I object to both the prior and present categorizations of APD. As far as I know, APD is not mental or psychiatric because the problem has to do with the way acoustic signals are received, transition into neural signals and then ultimately pass through neural networks from the ear to the brain for additional analysis (before the ultimate recognition or comprehension and response). I am going to recategorize this into Category:Neurology and Category:auditory system. If there are objections, let's discuss! (When I have time I'd like to tackle the revision as well, but I have contacted some of the original writers through a different group to bring them into the loop). &mdash; FJ | hello  23:48, Jun 3, 2005 (UTC) Hi FJ

you are so correct, but this could have been an unintentional error on the part of those who first started this Wiki page.

dolfrog (talk) 00:36, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

some observations
I'm going to delete this line.


 * Auditory Processing Disorder (APD) is the INVISIBLE disability, which randomly prevents the sufferers from processing auditory (verbal) information. Many APDs have A1 hearing.

What is an "INVISIBLE" disability and why is APD the unique one (I seem to recall diabetes also refered to in this way). Second, what is "A1" hearing? This appears to be one of the "informational pamphlet" bits that add nothing to the discussion. I'll withdraw my objection if there's a credible organization that explicitly calls APD the "invisible disability" or an official definition of "A1 hearing".

Finally, it appears to me that this disorder is a matter of degree or perhaps lack of coping skills. In other words, I suspect everyone has experienced each of the symptoms listed in the vague "Behavioral manifestations" section at some point in the recent past. So just exhibiting all of the symptoms doesn't seem sufficient. My uneducated guess is these symptoms must be severe enough to interfere with a person's day-to-day communication and other activities that most people do relatively easily. Perhaps we should replace this section with the clinical definition (if there is one) of APD? -- KarlHallowell 00:15, 15 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Doesn't this "observation" seem a bit harsh? You're single handedly brushing off more than fifty years of research as if it were nothing. Yes, your "uneducated" guess may seem right to you, but given the responses of such groups as the ASHA speaking about it, I would hardly brush it off as nothing. These symptoms are significant enough to interfere with a person's day-to-day communication, especially because of the effects it has on memory. Personally, I think the article should stay the same, perhaps more information could stand to be added, but there is no reason to write off this entire article because of your ignorance. SlaserX 23:19, 17 August 2006 (UTC)


 * In hindsight, I'd have to say that no my statement does not seem too harsh. I'm not brushing off research. I'm pointing out that a list of vague symptoms does not make a disorder. This is a flaw of the article not of the research. And as a result, I agree that more information should be added to the article. In particular, this vague list of symptoms should be replaced with the clinical definition of the disorder, if such a definition exists. I still do not advocate deleting this article. -- KarlHallowell 03:26, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Hm. I'm not familiar with wiki protocol on changing pages, but... I have CAPD and a couple things about the article... Speaking more slowly and or louder does not help, in fact it makes it more difficult. If the person says the same thing a couple times with the exact same intonation and emphasis I can usually get it. Also, 'complex verbiage' is not a problem at all for me... I don't understand why someone would think that to be an issue, I'm not mentally retarded. Maybe it is comorbid with mental retardation, I do not know. But those things weren't cited so I thought I'd let someone know they may not be correct for every person with CAPD. 70.238.178.220 00:20, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

An Invisible Disability does not present any obvious physical signs of its existence in comparison to a Physical Disability such as a limp, which all can see. No one who has APD has any obvious outward signs that they have APD, no stam p on their forehead, so the disability is invisible. There are many invisible disaiblbities of which APD is only one. ADD, autism, Dyslexia etc are all invisilbe disabilities.

A1 hearing is a phrase "A1 Hearing" now out of favour from the UK meaning that "Perfect Hearing" just showing my age. The point I was trying to make is that APD has nothing to do with Hearing Loss or Hearing Impairment, but everything to do with Processing the sounded based information that you hear. So APD is a sensory information processing disorder.

dolfrog (talk) 21:32, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Reworking of Definitions

 * Can I suggest this in "definitions"? It would be more encyclopedic and clearer on what ADP is, with ref to American Speech-Language-Hearing Associations research.

Definitions The American Speech-Language-Hearing Association (ASHA) published their first definitive Technical Report "(Central) Auditory Processing Disorders" in January 2005 as an update to the "Central Auditory Processing: Current Status of Research and Implications for Clinical Practice (ASHA, 1996)", and complements the UK's "Medical Research Council's Institute of Hearing Research's" Auditory Processing Disorder (APD) pamphlet, Oct 2004.

Auditory processing disorder is a congenital as well as an acquired condition (for example; resulting from ear infections and head injuries) which refers to difficulties in the processing of auditory information within the central nervous system, such as problems with: "...sound localization and lateralization; auditory discrimination; auditory pattern recognition; temporal aspects of audition, including temporal integration, temporal discrimination (e.g., temporal gap detection), temporal ordering, and temporal masking; auditory performance in competing acoustic signals (including dichotic listening); and auditory performance with degraded acoustic signals." (Quote from: (Central) Auditory Processing Disorders, Technical Report, Jan 2005)

This can manifest as problems determining the direction of sounds, difficulty perceiving differences between speech sounds and the of sequencing these sounds into meaningful words, confusing similar sounds such as "hat" with "bat", "there" with "where" etc. Less words may be perceived than were actually said, as there can be problems detecting the gaps between words, creating the sense that someone is speaking unfamiliar or nonsense words. Problems relating what has been said with its meaning, despite obvious recognition that a word has been said, as well as repetition of the word. Separating speech sounds from background noise such as the sound of a radio or television can be difficult. In areas such as a noisy bar, it can be difficult to impossible to understand speech, depending on the severity of the (auditory processing) condition. Speaking on a telephone can be problematic, due to low quality audio, poor signal, intermittent sounds and the chopping of words can be especially hard for someone with Auditory processing disorder to cope with, in comparison with someone with normal auditory processing (hearing).


 * Gerard Duncan 02:46, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
 * (Edited = Gerard Duncan 17:51, 3 June 2007 (UTC))

I'm going to impliment the change(for now), if someone objects please discuss. Gerard Duncan 22:34, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Maybe even suggest taking the last paragraph and use it to replace parts of the text in the Behavioral manifestations. That way Behavioral manifestations would relate more directly to the research of ASHA Gerard Duncan 23:01, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

This is now a complete mess. APD is about processing all sound based information. Speech is only one of many types of sound based information. We need to make it clear that having APD can cause problems processing all sound based information including Speech. The Behavioral Manifestations section has become almost complete nonsense, so I have to edit that section

dolfrog (talk) 21:45, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

May be there should be seperate section regarding how APD can affect the processing of sound language based information or speech. And leave the definition sectio to just a definition, less how it can affect those who have APD.

dolfrog (talk) 00:43, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

the name CAPD is still in common currency in society so this article should say also known as CAPD not Previously known as CAPD I'm changing that http://kidshealth.org/parent/medical/ears/central_auditory.html http://www.autistics.org/library/capd.html http://www.judithpaton.com/ http://www.tsbvi.edu/Outreach/seehear/spring00/centralauditory.htm Tydoni (talk) 16:54, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

Article needs reworking --- Notes about history purge
This article is, quite frankly, in need of some serious reworking. A large amount of its overall content (over the article's entire history) was built on a foundation of copyright-violation text and slightly-modified derivatives of such text. Wikipedia does not allow text copied verbatim from web sites in its articles (per WP:COPY). I had to check each article revision for offending text and each section in the (now) third-to-last revision to thoroughly purge the article of text that violates the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License. Please, check the article history for text that seems "overly academic" or unencyclopedic in tone if at all possible. Little things can save us a lot of headaches later on.

For the record, the copyright-violation sources were at the following URLS:


 * http://apduk.org/
 * http://www.tsbvi.edu/Outreach/seehear/spring00/centralauditory.htm
 * http://www.ihr.mrc.ac.uk/profile/questions_plain.php
 * http://www.ihr.mrc.ac.uk/research/projects/apd/documents/APD_Booklet.pdf (PDF file)

I think this article has a lot of potential but it has to be done without violating the copyrights of others. Bumm13 16:36, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

There could be a comparison with the content of the APDUK web site and some of my contributions to this article. The reason being that I authored much of the APDUK web site, and I am still the web master for the APDUK web site. So in one way it demonstrates that I am consistant in my description of APD.

dolfrog (talk) 20:46, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Bad Link
This link is bad: 2. ^ Auditory Processing Disorder (APD). Pamphlet, (2004).. British Society of Audiology APD Special Interest Group. MRC Institute of Hearing Research.

Also, a better definition upfront is needed.

NantucketNoon (talk) 07:52, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Hi Not sure what you have done to the references section but I have not the time to work out how this crazy set up works again. (my own APD) But the UK Medical Research Council's Institute of Hearing Research has just recently re structured is web site and included more information about APD, and its APD Research Program.

There are now 2 APD pamphlets, including a new Adult APD pamphlet, to download from one of two web pages, on their web site. http://www.ihr.mrc.ac.uk/research/apd.php?page=apd_docs and http://www.ihr.mrc.ac.uk/products/index.php?products=11 ( they also provide full glossy brochure versions for the UK medical profession in bulk quantities hence the reference to products to cover printing costs etc).

You find the information in the whole of the new APD section of their web site of interest. http://www.ihr.mrc.ac.uk/ You will have to bear in mind that they are continually adding more web pages to this section., It was only first published in January this year, and thee is much more to be added.

I hope you can make the relevant changes, wiki has always bemused me I do not have the time nor inclination to learn a new form of code in addition to our already problematic written language. Oh not to have APD lol.

dolfrog (talk) 22:09, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

dificulties with difficulties
the difficulties section seems worse than the other sections: "People with APD have an Auditory (Verbal) Processing Disorder" and what is verbal or auditory code? this section needs complete rework. Saganatsu (talk) 14:38, 6 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree, I'd like to propose to replace the line in question. As that line seems to have been edited to not make much sense.

People with APD have an Auditory (Verbal) Processing Disorder, and text is only verbal code, and so the Auditory Processing Disorder is extended into reading and writing as this auditory code. As a consequence, APD has been recognized as one of the major causes of dyslexia.

with:

People with APD have a disorder processing auditory information within the brain. The written word is a representation of verbal language, thus Auditory Processing Disorder can extend into reading and writing. As a consequence, APD has been recognized as one of the major causes of dyslexia.


 * That's only a beginning, as the rest of that section needs a serious rework.
 * --Atheous (talk) 23:02, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Going to go ahead and implement the change. Then hopefully move onto the rest of the section when time is more abundant.

--Atheous (talk) 15:10, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

I thought there were a few changes lol, mostly correct as well. When we first wrote this "Verbal" was included so that other who did not know what APD was could quickly understand some of the problems that APDs have. That was why it was put in brackets, to be take out later. Thje other issue was tha many who have APD may have been largely been described as being dyslexic especially in the UK. Dyslexia a is about having problems with a secondary man made communication system, the visual notation of speech which takes various forms depending which culture you are born into, so there are regional and and ethnic variations. The primary made communication system is speech, which evolved from our sound based alarm system. Unfortunately way back in history they forgot to write the manual as they developed these communication systems so we are having to create one now retrospectively. So the purpose of this section originally was to set out were all who may have APD could be found with other types of existing existing diagnosis. There is an article by a leading UK APD researcher that highlight that from the same symptoms it is possible to get 4 different diagnosis depending on the type of diagnostic professional you are referred to.

" a child with identical symptoms may be classed as APD by an audiologist, SLI by a SLT, dyslexic by an educational psychologist, and autistic spectrum by a psychiatrist. The evolution of the APD concept has itself been more strongly influenced by ‘clinical judgement’ and commercial interests than by scientific rigour. This has resulted in a plethora of diagnostic tests and treatments lacking any scientific validity." Prof D.R. Moore(Audiological Medicine March 2006)have a look at http://www.ihr.mrc.ac.uk/research/apd.php?page=apd_docs

I have change a couple of words "repesentation" to "visual notation "

dolfrog (talk) 22:34, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Diagnoses
we should mention that CAPD can and often does co-exist with other disease like Aspergers and ADHD. I understand that sometimes a child will be labeled with AS when the really only have CAPD. However if a child is diagnosed with AS/ADHD then later diagnosed with CAPD it does not mean that the AS/ADHD diagnoses was wrong. there are some kids that have social and attention problems that are not caused entirely by CAPD this article should mention that Tydoni (talk) 17:06, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

Reference note 5 cites Shaywitz et al (2002) Biological Psychiatry 52:101-110 for the statement “APD is recognized as a major cause of dyslexia”. However these authors do not say this. In fact, there is absolutely no mention of APD by Shaywitz et al.DJM77bci (talk) 00:29, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Remediations and Training
I suggest the follow to replace the current section, as at the moment is does not follow the NPOV wiki guidelines.

There is no single step that must be taken to over come the disorder, there are many different courses of action recommended to remedy the problems APD posses to an individual, which should be discussed with the relevant health professionals on a person to person basis. “Treatment and management goals are determined on the basis of diagnostic test findings, the individual's case history, and related speech-language and psychoeducational assessment data, and should focus both on remediation of deficit skills and management of the disorder's impact on the individual.“

There are no peer reviewed research supported treatments for APD available, however a variety of treatments have been offered commercially in the absence of solid empirical research to support their efficacy.

The follow information seems dubious, it seems to be mainly for the purpose of pushing untested therapies, which would be against the wiki rules, I can see the use having links to sites like this would have possible beifits to people who many be looking for help, but unfortunately it falls outside the scope of a wiki article and i have moved them from the main article to ref points to show that alternative therapies are available for wiki reference purposes only. I would like to hear from other people.


 * Management of Auditory Processing Disorders (includes the use of many programs)
 * AIT Institute for Auditory Integration Training. Free resources, information and referrals to AIT Practitioners worldwide.
 * Lindamood-Bell Learning Processes (particularly, the Visualizing and Verbalizing program)
 * Physical activities which require frequent crossing of the midline (e.g. occupational therapy)

At a later date certain types of (general) methods should be included, lists of types of remedial programs, but no links to specific sites with their own goals or products to push/sell. I'd like input on that.
 * --Atheous (talk) 21:12, 12 January 2008 (UTC)


 * edited for clarity* --Atheous (talk) 21:45, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

The * Management of Auditory Processing Disorders by Dr. Dilys Treharne of Sheffield University UK was the result of her first APD research program funded by the UK National Health Service NHS. This was the first UK APD research program, and set out to identify APD and define the best available program to help support those who may have APD. The programs mention in this presentation are the those available in the UK earlier this decade, and Dilys was especially looking for value for money in this regard. There are some very expensive program available with no guarantee that they will provide any benefit to any one who may have APD, and this is still the case. There is no magic bullet.

Dilsy is now part of the UK APD Steering Committee http://www.thebsa.org.uk/apd/Home.htm who advise the Uk Medical Research Council about APD issues

dolfrog (talk) 22:50, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Behavioural Traits
Since this topic was first introduce There has been an online Research program supported by Auditory Processing Disorder in the UK (APDUK)and members of the Yahoo Adult Apd Forum the Old APDs in conjunction with Australian Psychologist Damien Howard. The first results of this 18 month research program can be found as articles by Damien Howard published "Controlling the Chaos" and "Coping with Strangers" in the APDUK Newsletters No 1 and No 2. both of which can be downloaded from http://apd.apduk.org/newsletter.htm and will be included in a new Adult APD section of the web site in the near future.

dolfrog (talk) 23:30, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

You are talking about citing a "newsletter". Wouldn't it be better to cite literature from professional journals that are peer reviewed? Anyone can start a newsletter on the web these days and make up whatever story they wish to propagate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by DJM77bci (talk • contribs) 11:34, 12 May 2009 (UTC)