Talk:Audrey Hepburn/Archive 3

Getting to GA status
I think it's about time we got this to FA status. At least GA status. I was wondering if anybody knew what the best biographies were? I'll need to get hold of a few biographies to recheck and research this but it does look in comparitively reasonable shape to certain other ones on here!♦ Dr. Blofeld  12:20, 19 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Maychick's Audrey Hepburn: An Intimate Portrait and Audrey Hepburn: Fair Lady of the Screen by Ian Woodward are good ones to start with. —  Ssven2  Speak 2 me 13:51, 19 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Not here to suggest any book. Both the Hepburn's need the best quality articles here. Just thought to stop by to wish you best of luck and I look forward to your work. Oh, and don't remove infobox from this one. ;) FrB.TG (talk) 15:51, 19 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Well. first things first ;-) I'll request books for Audrey later next week if that's OK with everybody?♦ Dr. Blofeld  18:48, 19 June 2016 (UTC)

OK, I'm going to request these in a few days:


 * 1) Audrey Hepburn: Fair Lady of the Screen by Ian Woodward (£9.99)
 * 2) Enchantment: The Life of Audrey Hepburn by Donald Spoto (£0.01)
 * 3) Audrey: Her Real Story by Alexander Walker (£0.01)
 * 4) Audrey Hepburn: A Biography by Martin Gitlin (£13.98)
 * 5) Audrey Hepburn by Barry Paris (£0.01)

There's another five books after that which I think would be worth getting too, including two books on her style. But those five should be the main biographies on her. If Collect has found a NYT review of one of them attacking an author who might have claimed that Audrey enjoyed sheep or was a secret bank robber or Vietcong guide, now is the time to say so ;-)♦ Dr. Blofeld  17:50, 21 June 2016 (UTC)
 * I remember Barry Paris's biography seemed to get good reviews, good luck for converting this to GA. Cowlibob (talk) 17:57, 21 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Cheers Cowlibob, as long as it doesn't claim she was an axe murderer or had a lesbian relationship on a yacht with Grace Kelly off Monaco or something ;-) I don't know who has edited this but there's some good material in here with some poorer stuff. The good stuff will still need fully verifying and reinforcing though.♦ Dr. Blofeld  18:04, 21 June 2016 (UTC)
 * MarnetteD is the top editor for this article so no surprise that's in good shape. Cowlibob (talk) 18:55, 21 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes, it's far better than most articles I come across. There's a lot of good material in here but there is some older sources and material which need updating and revamping I think. It would benefit from a full research and update. I hope you're OK with me working on this, don't want to tread on toes here. I'm sure  can vouch for me being trusted to do this though!♦  Dr. Blofeld  19:02, 21 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the compliment . No worries at all and I look forward to the work that any and all of you do to move this to GA status. As that work unfollds if any questions come up I will post them here. Cheers. MarnetteD&#124;Talk 19:40, 21 June 2016 (UTC)

First five books have been ordered and are now on their way.♦ Dr. Blofeld  20:45, 24 June 2016 (UTC)


 * I took a whack at the article as it sits now, what I'm wondering is how much current content is going to be salvaged. Basically, there are a lot of citation formatting inconsistencies and a need to get rid of those annoying multiple citation at the end of a long section with no clue what sources what.  But it's not worth the effort of cleaning them up if they are just going to be pitched anyway.  Thoughts?

I'm working on a draft at User:Dr. Blofeld/Audrey Hepburn so any edits done on it will be replaced with my full draft eventually. If I use some existing content it will be done bit by bit and ensuring that everything us verifiable.♦ Dr. Blofeld  16:02, 27 June 2016 (UTC)

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Resistance claim
According to research by the Airborne Museum in Oosterbeek (the Netherlands) published today, there is no evidence that Hepburn was part of the Dutch resistance. See here. Karst (talk) 17:21, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

How to not offend people
User:MarnetteD has reverted attempts by many, many individuals to change the first line of the lead to not just say "British actress...". I imagine that the offense (or offence in this case;-) is mostly that an explanation for this label is hidden from the reader and when the editor encounters this while editing, it reads like one editor just pushing an opinion. The fact that her many categories are all only labeled "British" is undoubtedly also a sore point, given that she may have spend all of 5 years of her life in England. I'm sure many more offended editors decide against making a change after reading the note, while the vast majority just grumble under their breath or take the adjective at face value. I suggest we add a visible note and simply change the bit "was a British actress, model, dancer and humanitarian" to "was an actress, model, dancer and humanitarian with a British passport." I'm sure the note can be improved on, but I think it is necessary, even with "passport" added, as the categories are still categorical. I recall that in one of the old discussions someone pulled a wikipedia policy on passport priority that should be linked to in the note. Afasmit (talk) 22:08, 15 June 2017 (UTC)
 * A) I am not the only person to revert those changes so I am not sure why I had to be pinged. B) Per WP:BURDEN changes to an article must come with a reference so I (and others) am/are simply following policies and guidelines. It is most certainly not "pushing an opinion" - it is explaining why "British" is used. C) I have not noticed many attempts to change the categories. D) Do you have any empirical evidence about people being "offended" - all too often when someone pretends to speak for other readers/editors what they are in fact doing is speaking only for themselves. E) What does having a British passport equate to? Yes - it means she was a British citizen so there is no need to act like it is some kind of qualifier that is covering for something else. WikiP depends on reliable sources so speculation about dual citizenship should not be mentioned unless new refs can be found to support that. IMO there is no reason to alter the lede until said new sourcing comes along. OTOH if a footnote explaining the situation can be decided on that would be helpful. A footnote would be beneficial since it can be seen by all readers where the current hidden note is only seen (and so often ignored) when someone edits the article. The one suggested, as I've already mentioned, needs to remove the speculation and guesswork. MarnetteD&#124;Talk 22:42, 15 June 2017 (UTC)

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File nominated for deletion on commons
file:c:File:Petó Breakfast at Tiffany's.jpg Reason:copyrighted film subpage:link Message automatically deposited by a robot on 09:18, 2 January 2018 (UTC). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Harideepan (talk • contribs)

Audrey Hepburn
I think you guys did a great job. The leading was very informative and let me know exactly what I was about to start reading just as it should. I would like to see more further reading for people are who became more interested in Audrey Hepburn after reading this article. Abangur2 (talk) 03:03, 14 October 2017 (UTC)

I've still been meaning to work on it sometime, I have 6 books on her. It needs a lot of work.♦ Dr. Blofeld  11:06, 14 October 2017 (UTC)

Introduced her once again to a class tonight in Roman Holiday. BTW, in advance of the comment, no, that's not her briefly seen as a maid at the end of Alastair Sim's Scrooge (aka A Christmas Carol).Profhum (talk) 09:19, 30 January 2018 (UTC)

February 2019 edits
Sourced info is being replace with unsourced. This is not the way that Wikipedia works. Any changes regarding her birth name require reliable WP:SECONDARY references. MarnetteD&#124;Talk 18:52, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
 * I should object to any change to the birth name given in the article, since it is consistent with the wording of her birth certificate, which is in the public domain. LynwoodF (talk) 22:00, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

Audrey Hepburn Nationality, was she Belgian or British?
Is there any reliable source that can state if Audrey was belgian or british? She was born in Belgium though. Alberto279 (talk) 16:24, 9 June 2019 (UTC)

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.86.90.39 (talk) 15:25, 15 September 2019 (UTC)


 * She was born in Belgium in circumstances which did not accord her the right to claim Belgian nationality. She did not live in Belgium long enough to become eligible to claim Belgian nationality at a later stage. See this article. Her birth was registered at a British Vice Consulate and I have studied her birth certificate in detail. Under Dutch nationality law she had no right to claim Dutch nationality at that time. In those days the father's nationality took precedence if a child was born to a Dutch mother outside the Netherlands. Therefore the only nationality she was able to claim as a child was British. The Dutch law changed in 1985, but she would not have been able to claim Dutch nationality at that time, because she was by then too old. LynwoodF (talk) 17:40, 15 September 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 21:11, 26 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Audrey Hepburn (9304394852).jpg

British and Dutch
Audrey seems to be very much a Dutch or European Actress as a "British Actress" Most of her life and fame come from her work done in other places. it's true that she has connections to Britain but through her mother she has equally strong connections and actual time spent in Europe that represents much more of her life...and death. Then there is her work with the Americans on top of that. I just find the identity of 'British' to be very misleading and in fact most Brits say she is from Europe. It may only be that she had a British passport upon her death that she gets this title. At the least she should be considered of a 'Dutch-British' ancestry as that would be the way most people in the world are identified these days and this type of identification is much more true a person's cultural roots.203.131.210.82 (talk) 04:43, 16 September 2020 (UTC)
 * She was born British in Belgium to a Dutch mother. I have studied her birth certificate. Her birth was registered at a British vice consulate in Brussels. Her father was British, although born in Bohemia. At that time she had no right to either Belgian or Dutch nationality, since her father's nationality determined hers in both Belgian and Dutch law. LynwoodF (talk) 15:07, 16 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Did you even bother read the note before making this silly diatribe? She could not have been given Dutch citizenship in her lifetime. Trillfendi (talk) 16:07, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

"Humanitarian"
Is "Humanitarian" really a profession/occupation? Obviously she was heavily involved in charity work, etc. almost full time, but should it be classified as such? Just checking.
 * Well, considering how there are articles with "philanthropist" in their ledes, I don't see why humanitarian can't be one. Clear Looking Glass (talk) 16:00, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes, humanitarianism is a job. She probably didn’t get paid much for it compared to acting but it was still work she had to do all over the world. Trillfendi (talk) 16:45, 10 February 2021 (UTC)

Did she had Slovak ruts
Slovak ruts 2605:8D80:64A:99F1:A476:20E5:2742:2590 (talk) 01:30, 18 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I have never heard anything about Slovak roots. Her father was British, but was born in what is now Czechia and he had some Austrian descent. LynwoodF (talk) 09:17, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

Very few images
so probably undue focus to include this. Still, fun image, trivia, and article link if y'all ever create a gallery. — Llywelyn II   08:19, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

Birthplace
We seem to be having another round of confusing edits about her birthplace. This is mentioned at the beginning of the second paragraph of the lede. There is no point in cluttering the opening paragraph with anything about it. The recent edits ("Belgium-born", which I suppose is accurate, and "Belgian-born", which implies Belgian nationality) are completely unnecessary. LynwoodF (talk) 17:48, 7 July 2023 (UTC)


 * They are accurate. Nothing in the term Belgium born indicates nationality. She was born in the country of Belgium. This is undeniable. We should say so. It in NOT cluttering the opening paragraph and is necessary. Rcarter555 (talk) 07:20, 8 July 2023 (UTC)


 * It is accurate, but unnecessary. The circumstances of her birth are described a little further down the lede. You will observe how the original "Belgium-born" was quickly changed to "Belgian-born", which is just not true. In my view the whole thing should have been left as it was. LynwoodF (talk) 08:49, 8 July 2023 (UTC)
 * It has been Belgian born (or Belgium born, whichever seems more accurate) for quite some time. Get consensus before you revert it again. Otherwise you’ll be in violation of 3RR. Rcarter555 (talk) 10:18, 8 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Upon further review, I see that this WAS a fairly recent change (for some reason I thought this had been the current version for quite some time), and so I have reverted my change unless someone else feels strongly about it. Rcarter555 (talk) 10:30, 8 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for that. We had a round of editing a while back and I would have been happy with "..., born in Belgium,...", but others just wanted to keep it simple. LynwoodF (talk) 11:08, 8 July 2023 (UTC)