Talk:August 2019 Philadelphia shooting

Article name
Does anyone else think this name is- not so good. I don't really know what else to call it. Anyone have any ideas? Thanks, EDG 543 (talk) 14:50, 15 August 2019 (UTC)


 * I agree. My first thought was that the name was somehow "lacking".  But, I have no ideas for a better name.  Perhaps the word "police" should be included ("police shooting"), but that might sound like it was the police -- and not the criminal -- doing the shooting.    Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 16:06, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Police Standoff might work better. There was shooting, but seeing as this was a police raid that ended up with shooting occurring, hostages being taken, and an 8 hour standoff, it ended up being more than just that. While it was initially reported as police being shoot at, it wasn't like they were planned to be targeted it was reactionary by the gunman. I think we can put focus on standoff in title, although I am seeing sources use Philadelphia shooting standoff as well, which I also think could work. We can see what sources use mostly in next few days to find a final name for it before a move. WikiVirusC (talk) 16:47, 15 August 2019 (UTC)


 * Yes, the word "standoff" is probably germane to the title. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 03:06, 16 August 2019 (UTC)


 * CBS reported 30 police discharged their weapons, but it appears the police were less accurate than the individual downstairs. Maurice Hill's initial failure to speak on the telephone might have been a result of auditory fatigue from shooting indoors preventing him from hearing anyone on the line. Thewellman (talk) 22:26, 15 August 2019 (UTC)


 * I would suggest 2019 Philadelphia shootout rather than standoff, as there appears to have been a significant volume of gunfire from both sides.
 * If there was a significant volume of gunfire from the police, that needs to be added to the article. Did any of the bullets fired by the police hit anyone? Jim Michael (talk) 10:38, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
 * But for how long, was it eight hours of shooting, or was the majority if not all of it during the beginning, and the remaining hours the standoff/hostage situation. But either way shooting standoff includes both. WikiVirusC (talk) 12:13, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Is this event notable for its duration? Is anyone suggesting this event would have been notable if there hadn't been a period of high intensity gunfire? It appears a significant fraction of the firearm discharges reported by local residents may have been fired by police. If the bullets fired by 30 police officers didn't hit their presumed target, what did they hit? With gunfire from multiple directions inside and outside the building, some of the injuries assumed to have been caused by the suspect may be friendly fire injuries. Unfortunately, news coverage seldom includes details such as the caliber of bullets causing injuries or the direction from which those bullets were fired. Thewellman (talk) 15:56, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Indeed - the article as well as much of the media coverage give the impression that all the bullet wounds were caused by the man whom the police eventually arrested. It's highly unlikely that none of the police's bullets hit anyone. It also appears from the article that the suspect wasn't injured, which is also surprising. Jim Michael (talk) 17:55, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
 * I'm not saying it is notable solely because of duration, but if it was just a drug raid with resistance and gunfire but no serious injuries and w/o the standoff/hostage situation, it wouldn't be as notable, particularly nationally. WikiVirusC (talk) 18:36, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
 * If this was big on TV, the "ongoing situation" certainly helped snag viewers. Girl in a well, boys in a cave, balloon floating away...all ridiculously boring without the suspense aspect. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:02, 16 August 2019 (UTC)

Premature
This seems to have been created in a bit of a rush. As of right now I have serious doubts it passes WP:N(E). Specifically I am looking at WP:EVENTCRIT #4 and WP:LASTING. See also WP:NOTNEWS, WP:RECENTISM and WP:10YT. -Ad Orientem (talk) 19:44, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
 * It could be considered notable under WP:NCRIME. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 20:45, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
 * I think that would require an interpretation of NCRIME that effectively nullifies the WP:PAG I raised above, which I doubt was the intent. Such an interpretation would be broad enough to sail a battleship through. -Ad Orientem (talk) 21:20, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Of all the various attacks this month (well done, world), I would put this as the least notable. However, it also demonstrates bigger gun issues in the US - namely that 8 armed police officers still can't take down a single assailant - that could have an effect on legislation. But then, if it does, that would definitely warrant an article and this could be included there. I'm ambivalent, shall we say. Kingsif (talk) 00:02, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
 * They did take him down, they just didn't take him out. The perps in the next day's Philadelphia mass shooting got 26 rounds off without even being seen by police, much less caught or shot. Nobody ever thinks of restricting efficient getaway and drive-by vehicles, though, so it goes on like this. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:54, 16 August 2019 (UTC)

Images (Maps)
Probably not super important, but are three maps really necessary to give readers an idea of the location? Thanks, EDG 543 (talk) 19:52, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Number 1 is for people who know where Philadelphia is. Number 2 is for people who know that Pennsylvania exists. Number 3 is for the international folk that don't. Kingsif (talk) 23:59, 15 August 2019 (UTC)