Talk:Auguste Chouteau/Archives/2015

NPOV
Everything I have been able to find anything online regarding the early history of St. Louis does not even question Chouteau's role. Including the Missouri Historical Society and Google's Book Search. This article makes it sound as if it is a quaint local "tradition" that he was one of the founders. I even did a Google Book Search on "Wilson Primm" trying to find his dismissal of the account and could come up with nothing.-- Birgitte§β ʈ  Talk  19:07, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm with BirgitteSB on this one. Chouteau is documented as a member of the first St. Louis Board of Trustees (1810) and Missouri's first territorial House of Representatives (1813). Although there are undoubtedly holes and inaccuracies in what we know about his early life, he was certainly with Laclede in St. Louis for many of the village's formative events. As early as 1764, he was living with his family and Laclede in St. Louis. There is also evidence of him engaging in dealings with local tribes and financiers during the town's founding. To state he had "no founding role" seems a bit much. Jjacobsmeyer 11:12, 16 September 2006 (UTC)


 * If I get to it, I would restore the lead graf to "co-founder" of St. Louis. The article desperately needs formal verifiable references (the disputes of his role are not verifiably sourced).  I did some quick Google checks and it's in all of the articles and there's a lot of information on print.google.  The lack of sources though really hurts the article and using attributions such as "according to tradition" really hurts.  Americasroof 04:04, 12 February 2007 (UTCrry)


 * Holy Chouteau! I've been looking through the Spanish history of St. Louis (which lists all the residents) and there's no reference to Auguste or the Chouteaus but there is Don Pedro Laclede.  I've never been comfortable with the tale that a 13-year-old boy founded St. Louis.  The original article was done anonymously.  I wish there were sources.  It's hard to believe that a hoax of that proportion could have slipped through so long!!!  Americasroof 04:13, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Beware to all who read this piece on Chouteau. It is a bunch of bunkum and the real hoax. Those wanting an authentic and carefully documented account of the important and influential Chouteau clan should consult William E. Foley and C. David Rice, The First Chouteaus: River Barons of Early St. Louis available from the University of Illinois Press and found in most libraries. For a quick read, take a look at Jay Gitlin's fine online essay found in the external links attached to this piece. The inaccuracies and misstatements in the Wikipedia entry on Auguste Chouteau are too numerous to list in this short memo, but when I can find the time I will attempt to rewrite it to bring it closer to the truth of the matter. In the meantime readers beware. William E. Foley, Professor Emeritus of History, University of Central Missouri. If you have questions about my qualifications I invite you to check any large public or research library for a listing of my publications on Missouri, the Chouteaus, and the American West.68.119.244.25 20:07, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Rewrite
Based on looking at the edit history, it looked like most of the article (especially sections that were highly NPOV) was written about five years ago by an anonymous editor. It also has been at least three/four months since any real activity on this article. I took existing books available online and compiled a new biography of Chouteau, but I am weak on his later life. Hope I didn't step on anyone's toes. poroubalous (talk) 03:25, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

Needs more on later life
This is too much about Pierre Laclede and Auguste's mother, however important they were, and the initial founding. Auguste did much more than build the first huts for the city. Will try to work on it later - agree the book, The River Barons, is excellent.

I added some more that I could find about Chouteau's operations from 1780-1805. I will keep looking for more verifiable data. poroubalous (talk) 17:22, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: moved per request. Favonian (talk) 15:37, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

René Auguste Chouteau → Auguste Chouteau – Usage varies but the St. Louis Walk of Fame, Britannica and most book sources use the Auguste Chouteau. Marcus Qwertyus (talk) 09:56, 17 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Great idea -- more concise, more recognizable, and more natural name. poroubalous (talk) 17:30, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Support per printed sources. In ictu oculi (talk) 02:11, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.