Talk:Augustinianism

Requested move 9 May 2020

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: Not moved no support for the proposed move (closed by non-admin page mover) DannyS712 (talk) 11:03, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

Augustinianism → Augustinism – "Augustinian" supposedly refers to the Augustinian Order and "Augustine" is the preferred Wikipedia term. Elizium23 (talk) 02:21, 9 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Oppose. "Augustinianism" appears to be preferred over "Augustinism", as given in Merriam–Webster, American Heritage, Oxford, and Collins, and as seen for example in these sources:, , , , , etc. What is your basis for saying "and 'Augustine' is the preferred Wikipedia term"? — the Man in Question (in question)  03:29, 9 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Oppose, less common name, current name is not ambiguous. buidhe 15:49, 10 May 2020 (UTC)


 * The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Predestination
A Catholic answers article claimed that Augustine did not teach unconditional election, which I see as an outrageous claim, most scholars say he did believe in unconditional election, and Augustine himself stated "That the predestinated are called by some certain calling peculiar to the elect, and that they have been elected before the foundation of the world; not because they were foreknown as men who would believe and would be holy, but in order that by means of that very election of grace they might be such, etc." https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/15121.htm. That material should atleast be deleted from the comparison table. --ValtteriLahti12 (talk) 16:17, 24 March 2022 (UTC)


 * I've looked up various sources on Google Scholar and found varying answers: "Having proposed the doctrine of unconditional election, Augustine never retreated and during his battles with the Pelagians he became more entrenched than ever."
 * This Reformed source also says he supported unconditional election
 * On the other hand,
 * "Even though scholars agree that Augustine did not positively teach the double predestination of the both the elect and the reprobate..."
 * "Most scholars grant that Augustine did not intend to teach double predestination." (Rigby 2015, CUP) (t &#183; c)  buidhe  19:45, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

@User:buidhe unconditional election does not necessate a belief in double predestination, as single predestination is still unconditional, such as Lutherans believe. --ValtteriLahti12 (talk) 07:13, 25 March 2022 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I realize that's the Lutheran position, but they are both connected. I think the above sources point to unconditional election = yes and double predestination = no. (t &#183; c)  buidhe  08:17, 25 March 2022 (UTC)


 * Yes but the text before implied that Augustine held to conditional election, and seems to be derived from the Catholic answers article that went against majority scholarship, though I already changed it ValtteriLahti12 (talk) 08:58, 25 March 2022 (UTC)

=Augustine's Platonism=

There needs to be a section/sub-section talking about Augustine's Platonism. I'm specifically talking about Augustine's view of abstract objects as divine ideas (i.e. divine conceptualism). "While the exact sources of Augustine’s Neoplatonism elude us, source criticism has been able to determine some pervasive features of his thought that are doubtlessly Neoplatonic in origin...The existence of intelligible (Platonic) Forms that are located in the mind of God and work as paradigms of the sensible things (De diversis quaestionibus 46)". Source: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/augustine/#PhilTradAuguPlat