Talk:Aulay Macaulay

Two different persons?
The article currently says that Aulay Macaulay, Scottish clan chief, also invented a shorthand system. One source (Cook & Cook, which is used in the article) supports this, but there seems to be other sources which have conflicting information, and I believe that the shorthand inventor is probably a completely different person with the same name. Some differences between the sources: Are there any other sources (besides Cook&Cook) that would support them being the same person? Or should this article be splitted into two articles? --Ryhanen (talk) 19:13, 10 January 2011 (UTC)
 * different years of death: shorthand inventor died March 19, 1788 (sources: The annals of Manchester, Catalogue of Books by H. T. Folkard: ). The clan chief died about 1767 (source: The Book of Dumbartonshire , which is used also in this article)
 * different places of residence: shorthand inventor lived in Manchester (sources: Macaulay's shorthand book, 3rd edition, says Printed by the Author and sold at his house in Saint Anns Square, Manchester. The annals of Manchester : He was a tea dealer in St. Ann's Square). The chief of MacAulay clan lived in Scotland, if I'm not mistaken(?).


 * Woah! This is weird! The Cooks are sure that they are the same guy. There's not a trace of uncertainty about it, from what I've seen of their book. It was published by a university press in 2004, so you'd think they would be reliable. Their book is about someone who was a cadet of the MacAulays of Ardincaple, and they mention that when the chief lost everything the cadet bought up some of of the family lands. Their book is on Google Books with a bit of a free preview. I just looked to see if they cite anything for the shorthand bit - they didn't.


 * I think maybe the English-location can be explained by the fact the chief lost all of his clan's ancestral lands due to debt - it seems to have been pretty dramatic, since in 1750 Ardincaple Castle didn't even have a roof. I have no idea why the date of death is so far off. Here's the relevant passage from The Annals of Manchester (page 115):


 * So the book cites Guardian Notes and Queries. I think 'notes and queries' are questions and musings that people write into papers/magazines. There are loads of Victorian ones on Google Books. I don't think they'd be a reliable source all by itself, because it's just opinions from the public. I wonder what that particular entry said though, and who wrote it.
 * Another thing that made me wonder before was that the shorthand-Aulay didn't sign his name something like "Aulay Macaulay of Ardincaple" - it's just "A. Macaulay". Historically, Scottish lairds tended to use the name of their lands as surnames, or tagged the name of their lands onto their surnames. I had figured that maybe Aulay didn't want to be associated with the run-down estate; or maybe it was a way to 'sell himself' to an English public (the 1740s being the era of the Jacobite Risings, and maybe appearing as a Highland laird would just cause more problems than benefits). But those are just guesses. I think that the name could be a weak clue that they are different people, but it doesn't have to be be either.
 * There's a book on Google Books, called The early Manchester theatre, that is snippet view that mentions the Aulay that died in 1788 in Manchester. The snippet on page 14 says (the first sentence is a quote, quoting 'Lewes', I suppose):


 * The snippet of page 15 says:


 * The snippet on page 20 says:


 * Here's a small blurb mentioning the shorthand-Aulay (coincidently on the Guardian website, and it looks to be a 'query'). No mention of Ardincaple, or the clan. I Googled the contributor's name, and he appears to shorthand-scholar of sorts . I think the safest thing to do is to treat the two men as different people, and have this article about the shorthand-Aulay. I wish the Cooks had given a citation or something.--Brianann MacAmhlaidh (talk) 09:33, 11 January 2011 (UTC)


 * I mentioned above the third edition of the shorthand book, but also the second edition, from 1747, contains information about location:

"Printed for the author, and sold by him in the Square Manchester"


 * (which can be seen also in the picture in this article). This doesn't seem to fit in with the events in Scotland (although I'm not sure what place Square Manchester exactly is). --Ryhanen (talk) 15:01, 11 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Maybe it stands for the Exchange Square in Manchester. Many towns had market squares, I wonder if that what it refers to something like that. I've removed all the clan stuff from the article. We don't have much of an article any more, but the German-language one looks good . I posted a question about this at a genealogical forum, and a Macaulay-researcher emailed me saying he believed the were indeed different people, but likely distantly related.--Brianann MacAmhlaidh (talk) 07:56, 12 January 2011 (UTC)