Talk:Autistic Pride Day/Archive 1

POV
This article contains opinions which are stated as facts, e.g. "at the bare minimum there should be..." Kappa 04:56, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * I have edited the article to be neutral, and state that people have opinions instead of stating the opinions as fact. Q0 02:38, 23 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Since the only complaint about neutrality was that opinions were stated as facts, and since I have edited them to state "advocates of autism pride have the opinion that ..." I think I can remove the POV dispute notice. Q0 02:11, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Prefacing opinions stated as fact with "some people think" is not sufficient to render the point of view neutral. The article is still heavily unbalanced. I speak as a borderline Aspberger's sufferer (yes, sufferer) with a PDD-NOS child and three autistic nephews. It's nice that some of us are gifted at mathematics, have unusual powers of concentration, and so on -- but most of us do not; and it is sheer obstinacy to pretend that we do not suffer from a serious handicap or that our condition is simply a different kind of normal. I have no use for the "autistic pride" movement, which does not speak for me or my family.

My point being that this article remains heavily unbalanced, and I have reflagged it as such. 128.165.87.144 13:38, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

On the contrary, there are those that don't, but most do. The point of autistic pride, however, is to encourage others to discontinue the profiling of such individuals with greater intellectual capabilities than average in certain areas as somehow mentally abnormal, impaired, etc. I also despise the whole concept of a "personality disorder". I feel an urge to be angered by this, it I will restrain myself and merely hope that you can see reason. I have no problem with you saying you suffer from Asperger's, I don't know where you got the idea that such a term would be worth emphasizing in that manner. Frankly it was somewhat irritating when repeated, but you certainly have the right to feel however you want about your condition's effects on you. I find the whole concept of a "social disorder" rather abhorrent, however, so please excuse me if I seem harsh, as it is something I find deeply offensive. I was diagnosed with "Asperger's syndrome" at a relatively young age, and I've spent many years of my life around numerous other individuals with "Asperger's", many of whom I've befriended as I would any neurotypical person. Perhaps the best way to explain my view that such a classification is abhorrent is a little bit of insight from when I was younger. After I was "diagnosed", my mother gave me a book about "Asperger's". Of course I was curious, so I opened to the first page, to find something along the lines of "Asperger's syndrome was first noticed by Dr. Hans Asperger, a German psychiatrist who realized some children were different from other children". The bolded part pretty much sums up the explanation I was given, and to me it seemed obvious. Must society classify mental & emotional differences in social interaction or interests as a disability? Personally, I find that disgusting, and you're welcome to your opinion, but it pains me to see a fellow sufferer of this label so upset by such things. I'd never really known of the Autistic Pride movement until reading this article and a couple of others, so I'm far from a long-time hardcore advocate, yet I see the value in, at the very least, priding oneself in unique experiences brought on by either such "hardships" or the blossoming of unique perspectives. It may sound sick to you, but most days I tend to be glad I "suffer" from Asperger's, while I'm also dealing with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder on a daily basis. I'm one of the most pessimistic people you could ever talk to, as any friend of mine would know, yet I see the wisdom in learning from supposed or true disadvantages in order to better ourselves rather than complaining that we're different. I also see no problem with taking some pride in such accomplishments of, shall we say..spiritual fulfillment, self-discovery, etc. The Autistic Pride movement, at least from my limited perspective at the moment, seems to merely be a collective expression of this. I apologize for the length or any lack of clarity. 70.49.88.253 17:21, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

You obviously have very passionate opinions on this topic. However, this does not change the fact that "autistic pride" is highly controversial and rejected by many autistics, and we consider our point of view entirely rational. The failure to acknowledge this in the article belies the claim to a neutral point of view. You are advocating when you should be writing a balanced encyclopedia article. 128.165.87.144 22:19, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Cultural relevance
In Europe this is not a thing, probably because the people who didn't get along immigrated out of Europe. In my European cultural frame of reference the symbols on the flag are funny, because these show how movements try to claim as much unrelated goodness as possible. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.83.108.100 (talk) 15:46, 18 June 2022 (UTC)


 * For the record, this is absolutely a thing in Europe, as the entry clearly shows. Oolong (talk) 14:37, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

Autistic pride


'Event' = Something that happens at a given place and time.

Some events I perform very well, other events I can not handle. The most important is that perform events that is done well and have insight to ask for help to the events that I need. This is the core of my definition of Autistic pride.

I need help, yes! with some events not all.

I can do it on my own!

I dislike that some people want to 'cure autism' which is the opposite to 'autistic pride'. My view on autism is related to my concept of the soul: 'soul and body' must have something combined that the 'single soul' lack, why else will the soul take a body in its care if it do not gain something from it. The soul is more important than the material body. Autism is the inner core of the soul and the body must contain certain brain configuration for an autist soul to descend into the autist body.

The most important day in the Autistic life is the day that you are given a diagnosis. When you gain a diagnosis then you can explain to yourself and other what is wrong in life. My life was characterized with constant misconceptions in school and interaction with other humans until I was 22 year. When I got my diagnosis 90% of the bad things that happened could be explained. When a diagnosis are set the strengths of the being suddenly appear from the cloud of life. The definition of strengths is very important because in that moment you also get a definition of shortcomings. When you know about shortcomings then you can ask for help and not be ashamed for it.

(Sometimes time and space collapse inward in my head and I feel for short periods the 'breath of Cosmos' and a feeling of bliss expand from the body.)

I live on planet earth and I am a part of this universe as a soul and as a body.

The autistic causality:

A large portion of life is wrong, noone understand and/or I don't understand



Diagnosis



What events am I do well



Opposition – what events gives me difficulties



Explaination to myself and others



Do events I do well and makes I feel good



Ask for help with what I have difficulties with



All this hopefully makes me feel a bit better

--Msitua 13:22, 24 July 2005 (UTC)

That's nice, but not relevant to the article or it's quality. Lord Patrick 06:07, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

Merging
This article should be merged with Autistic culture. It's essentially a promotion piece for an event which has happened once. If it's not merged, it should be deleted; I'll put up a VfD in a week or so if some action hasn't happened. --jpgordon&#8711;&#8710;&#8711;&#8710; 04:01, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

No it should not and that ribbon is offensive JoeMele 01:42, 27 August 2005 (UTC)


 * Msitua, who is autistic himself, added the ribbon. ManekiNeko 08:03, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

And besides, Wikipedia is not censored. The ribbon is not a personal attack on a user. It is simply a symbol, added by a user who wishes to show he is proud to be autistic. Lord Patrick 02:04, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

Its not a promotion piece, its informational. It is a global yearly event, not just a one-off event. Events for the day for 2006 are already being planned in the UK and USA, and Australia. The theme for 2006 is currently being debated with input from many people, and it will be a much bigger day in 2006. AmyNelson 21:10, 5 Sep 2005. (BST)


 * Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. --jpgordon&#8711;&#8710;&#8711;&#8710; 19:03, 10 September 2005 (UTC)

Well, I merged this with Autistic culture but Joe reverted this page. I reverted it - but I'm not going to do it again. Truth be told we may as well VfD this - but I'd rather the current merge stand. Ryan Norton T 05:06, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

First of All, Austism rights is rather long as it is. Also Is that vfd some kind of threat??????APD is NOTABLE it was in new scientist among others.JoeMele 14:58, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

Also please stop the insanity. The wiki has a page for EVERY EPISODE of spongebob squarepants. And something this important and notable is too be shoved all in on artive??? If this doesnt show there is a flaw in the wiki system, i dont know waht does.JoeMele 15:09, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

Please see my response to Amy at Talk:Aspies For Freedom. Basically, by moving APD to autistic we improved autistic culture. There is no "insanity" going on here. Ryan Norton T 15:47, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

If there can be a gay pride article then there can be autistic pride day article. Why you go and try and merge gay pride day with gay rights movement and see what happens?JoeMele 14:45, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

This discussion seems to have dropped so I will remove the merge notice. Banana04131 02:04, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

This was merged with autistic culture but it was reverted by JoeMele several times, so its sort of at a standstill I guess. Ryan Norton T 02:28, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

I kept the tag down though - if someone else thinks it should be merged they can put it back up or something Ryan Norton T 05:01, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

Don't merge for the time being. Let's wait and see what we have to report from June 18, 2006 -- Writtenonsand 19:54, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Again, I have to state emphatically that WP:NOT a crystal ball - as it the text is already merged and it should just redirect anyway. WhiteNight T 20:15, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

If there is going to be any merging and redirecting, I think it would be more appropriate to merge/redirect to either Aspies For Freedom or autistic pride instead of autistic culture. Q0 20:20, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Seattle parade?
The article mentions a Seattle parade being the main celebration -- is this true? I can find nothing on the web that says it happened -- no newspaper article or anything. Just copies of this article or materials from the APD site. Not that everything can be found on the web, but it is a bit odd. ManekiNeko 04:45, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

The biggest event was ultimately in Brazil, this is the link to the information we received on it. Post I live in the Uk so only have access to UK newspapers, unless something appears online. Unless someone posts or mails me, I cannot ascertain how an event has transpired. AmyNelson 20:00, 10 Sep 2005 (BST)


 * So there was nothing in Seattle after all? I live there, and I saw no sign of any event. But it's not mentioned in the article now, anyway. ManekiNeko | Talk 02:01, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

Blogosphere
Googling "Autistic Pride Day," shows that this day is increasing celebrated in non-public ways by the autistic community.

Kyle Ervin?
Who is Kyle Ervin? He should be either linked or justified in the text. Generally, this strikes me as one of many Autism pages that seem to exist only in reference to each other rather than to any natural (i.e. googlable) phenomenon. At the very least, a lot of merging is in order. CalG 02:34, 14 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Hah, never mind. Someone killed Kyle before my page updated.  CalG 02:43, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Unbalanced?
An editor has suggested that this page is "unbalanced" but there is no indication of what opposing view points might be brought forward. Is the editor looking for a line that reads, "On the other hand, some people think that autistic people suck."? I don't see a flag on the Gay Pride Day article. Maybe the editor could be more specific.

There are many autistics who feel that autism is a disability; something to be overcome, not celebrated. The likely consequence of treating autism as an alternate kind of normal is that special educational assistance will denied autistic children who badly need it. 128.165.87.144 22:23, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Does APD actually take place now or has Amy Nelson abandoned it like everything else?
This is a question I thought would be safe to ask before I consider nominating this page for deletion, as in 2007 I saw absolutely NO evidence whatsoever that APD had actually taken place on the 18th of June as it should have done. Does it still take place? If "no" then has Amy abandoned it? I would rather know this than risk wasting my time just nominating the article for deletion, even Amy herself, as much as she has caused me suffering, can reply to this if she likes Pika Pikachu2005 21:17, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

A little update, I've added a paragraph to the page, everyone who wishes to discuss this can do so here Pika Pikachu2005 16:19, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Another update to the article I made was regards lack of evidence to suggest there are plans for events in 2008, please discuss this with me Pika Pikachu2005 (talk) 21:47, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

The Swedish neurodiversity spirited organization Organiserade Aspergare celebrates the day vividly since 2010 with ambitious efforts of scheduled events for several days. This year, nine days from June 12 to June 20. Pemer42 (talk) 00:33, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

...and we still do. From 2013 on, ten days in a row. From the second Monday in June to the Wednesday after. If June 18 falls on a Thursday that even becomes an eleventh day those years. It's getting quite a tradition here. I feel a little ripped off with all of Aspies for freedom suddenly just vanishing. Pemer42 (talk) 21:51, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

Event might be renamed
They are probably not going to keep the name "Autistic Pride Day", because being autistic in itself is not something to be proud of. A lot of people with low-functioning autism have special needs and cannot survive on their own, yet this event only addresses people with high-functioning autism. It is a great misnomer. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.236.120.139 (talk) 22:30, 18 June 2008 (UTC) Why not be proud of it? Sioraf (talk) 18:27, 28 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I think it a bit of a joke. Most people with autism by the nature of the issue can't give a damn about the idea of an autism pride day.  Toby Douglass (talk) 13:16, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Who is going to rename it? There is no one organisation that would be able to do that. Nobody renamed the Gay Pride or Black Pride movement. Autistic Pride is about saying that autistic people have the right to stand up and speak for themselves rather than others do it for them. Nothing about us without us. That's what pride means in this case. Further note: the original comment was from 2008. 10 years later there is no name change and the movement is expanding. IanCotton —Preceding undated comment added 15:07, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

Not a disease
The following was removed by a newbie, so I'll reinsert it. To the one who removed it: You don't censor talk pages at will! You may disagree in which case you take it up on the talk page. But here is what was removed:


 * The medical profession apparently disagrees. Look up Autism. That being said, there's no reason not to celebrate autistic pride or pride in whatever for that matter. But autism is a malfunction of the brain, properly referred to a psychiatrist, just like schizophrenia and depression. Cheers Þórður Breiðfjörð (talk) 14:45, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Focus
A large portion about the article (and the part with most of the refs) is about autism in general, and attitudes about autism, rather than being about Autistic Pride Day itself. Can there be more discussion of how APD got started, what sort of events/etc. have been held to observe it, and yada yada? r ʨ  ana ɢ  talk/contribs 02:34, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

what organizations?
"On June 18 every year, organisations around the world celebrate Autistic Pride Day...." The footnote goes to an article that does not support this statement. What organizations, please? --Richardson mcphillips (talk) 23:18, 18 June 2017 (UTC)


 * Autistics United Canada https://www.autisticsunitedca.org/blog/2018-in-review
 * Autistic Self Advocacy Network https://asansouthwestohio.blogspot.com/2009/06/celebrating-autistic-pride-day.html
 * Ambitious About Autism https://www.ambitiousaboutautism.org.uk/autistic-pride-day-2017

Just to name a few. -- User:Brainy J ✿ (talk) 08:07, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

Problem with the flag and others
Monteparnas (talk) 17:39, 30 June 2021 (UTC) First of all lets be clear that I'm Autistic myself, I'm an autistic advocate from Brazil.

Initially I came to complain that the flag here isn't appropriate for the article. The flag of the APD is the same shown at first in the Autism Rights Movement. The pastel flag with golden background is a new model proposed by bigots who don't like the likeness to the Gay Pride flag.

But by reading the article and the comments here it seems that we have far more problems to deal with. Since I don't have the time to rewrite the article with proper citations to sources, I propose the deletion and redirection to Autism Rights Movement.

This isn't an informative page as it is, but a propaganda outlet. Our advocacy and internal conflicts should be vented elsewhere.


 * I just added an image of a rainbow-on-white pride flag after a social media exchange where somebody consulted this article and mistakenly thought the golden background flag is from 2005 (it was created in 2021). I also changed the golden background one in the neurodiversity template (since the template should be broader than autism anyway). I'm neutral on whether this page stays up vs. is merged into the ARM page - I just tried to organize its content a bit and I agree it could use some real work. Intervex (talk) 21:03, 8 June 2024 (UTC)