Talk:Avengers (comics)/Archive 3

Avengers Film
Attack of the Show (The Feed) has stated that the Avengers film will be released in Summer 2011 alongside the Captain America Movie. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.224.164.207 (talk) 23:27, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Is Ant Man confirmed for the Avengers film? I know that Edgar Wright (Shaun Of The Dead director) is developing a standalone film for the character, but I have not seen anything concrete from Marvel Films that he will bein the Avengers movie. I think everyone is just assuming this. Swingkid570 (talk) 13:27, 3 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Iron Man, Thor, Captain America, Hulk, possible Ant Man... Studios are just rolling in the money. The next 3-4 years are a good time for Studios and the audience. Making an Ant Man movie and not having him in Avengers would be very questionable. All these Super heroe movies that I listed are just a build up to the Avengers.

-G —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.67.113.112 (talk) 00:34, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

The thing is, ANT MAN has not been scheduled yet. The IRON MAN sequel, THOR and CAP movies have been. While I conceed that Ant Man may very well show up in an Avengers filck, I don't think that Marvel is currently counting on his solo film to be part of the lead up to the AVENGERS.Swingkid570 (talk) 17:00, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Black Widow and War Machine could be team members because Scarlett Johanssan and Don Cheadle have been confirmed to star in the movie, these could just be supporting roles or cameos however. Dark Warrior D 00:38, 8th April 2009.

Tiny Argument re: Nick Fury Cameo
I've noticed a lot of editing backwards and towards in relation to Nick Fury's appearance at the end of Iron Man and what this means for an Avengers movie. The editing seems to be changing between linking to Nick Fury or Ultimate Nick Fury. Some claim that linking to Nick Fury is correct because it's the Avengers and not the Ultimates (that and the fact that various origins are more consistant with 616 rather than the Ultimate Universe e.g., Tony Stark isn't made out of brain), however I'd claim that linking to Ultimate Nick Fury is better because they're clearly modelling his appearance on that of Ultimate Fury (who was modelled after Samuel L. Jackson in the first place). In conclusion, it's a tiny argument, but some sort of consensus should probably be reached before this gets silly.

My vote is to link to Ultimate Nick Fury as thus-far it's a more accurate description of the character seen. Planewalker Dave (talk) 06:50, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Next Avengers
I moved the Next Avengers from its own section in the alternate versions down the the other media, and worked it into the animated films so that it is consistent with the others. I entered a brief description, but someone might want to look it over, I'm still not that good at the descriptions. Templarion1 (talk) 18:56, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Class assessment
This article had been rated A but the assessment for an A was skimpy and there are no signs it went through a GA assessment (A being higher than GA so it must be assessed for the latter before shooting for the A) so I have run it through the B class assessment and it fails. As it is an important article I'll give a few thoughts:


 * References - not adequate, even just on the primary references front, there are major events discussed with no indication of what issues these occurred in.


 * Coverage - this is just about adequate to tick the B-class box (although I did umm and ahh over it). However, the bar isn't that high here and the PH is pretty barebones and is just this was published then, etc. The article clearly has more than enough in-universe plot but if the article wants to go higher it is the PH that will need expanding to include more out-of-universe background with creators/editors discussing why they did what and things like character development, etc

I'll see what I can find to help bulk this up but the quick fix is to go through the article and throw in things like issue numbers for events which will help cover the basics. (Emperor (talk) 14:24, 16 October 2008 (UTC))

NEW MOVIE, NEW PAGE?
Hey guys, maybe it's time to branch out and give the 2011 movie it's own page? Downey, Cheadle and Favreau have signed on, so it's probably time!


 * ok 1) please sign your comments, 2) at least wait for a movie poster to come out.--  Phoenix741  (Talk Page)  18:58, 30 October 2008 (UTC)


 * The standard rule is that filming has to begin before it gets a page. Though there are occasionally exceptions.  Planewalker Dave (talk) 23:56, 30 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Further to this, the extra material can live here until there's a consensus on the whether or not a Film page should be created:

Iron Man director Jon Favreau is the executive producer, while Robert Downey, Jr. and Don Cheadle will play Iron Man and War Machine, respectively. Confirmed team members are Iron Man, Captain America, the Incredible Hulk and Thor. The film's writer, Zak Penn (co-writer of The Incredible Hulk film), cited Mark Millar and Bryan Hitch's Ultimates version of the team as inspiration for the story. In February 2009 Samuel L. Jackson signed a nine picture deal with Marvel Studios and Paramount Pictures to play Nick Fury in Iron Man II, Thor, The First Avenger: Captain America, The Avengers and their respective sequels. In March 2009 Scarlett Johansson signed on to play Black Widow in both Iron Man II and The Avengers. Lou Ferrigno stated at a comic book convention that he would be involved in the film.


 * Yes, we do not create pages until principle photography has begun. Also I reverted to the previous revision, talk is not be used as a source of information. TriiipleThreat (talk) 17:43, 4 June 2009 (UTC)


 * That information should remain within the body of the article so that it is available to readers, at least until the film is notable enough (when filming statrs) to be warranted it own page. -TriiipleThreat (talk) 19:16, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Confirmed Cast

 * Robert Downey, Jr. as Anthony "Tony" Stark / Iron Man
 * Don Cheadle as Lt. Colonel James "Rhodey" Rhodes / War Machine
 * Scarlett Johansson as Natasha Romanoff / Black Widow
 * Samuel L. Jackson as Nick Fury: Jackson initially had financial problems with Marvel and was unsure about reprising the part of Fury, until they reached a deal that would entail his appearance in nine films as the character.


 * The Article Should Mention The Upcoming Lego Set. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.170.92.161 (talk) 10:17, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

Avengers (2010 series)
I think the buzz around the new Avengers series has made it notable enough for an article.--Beware the Unknown (talk) 08:46, 3 April 2010 (UTC)


 * I disagree. It's just the next volume of Avengers and therefore stays in this article.  Planewalker Dave (talk) 15:59, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Avengers Assemble
In regards to the current roster, shouldn't a distinction be made between members of the current team in Avengers Vol. 4, and the roster in Avengers Assemble #1, which is patterned more after the upcoming movie? I know that both are supposed to be set in current continuity, but someone has added Black Panther, Black Widow and Thor to the "current" roster, just because they appear in Avengers Assemble. Does that really make them a current member of the "main" Avengers team? Fortdj33 (talk) 22:32, 25 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Is it fact that they are set in the same continuity?--TriiipleThreat (talk) 21:39, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Several reviews that I have read, such as this one, this one and this one for starters, all claim that it is in-continuity, but those same reviews also address the fact that Thor is present, when he hasn't really come back from Fear Itself yet. Plus, other characters such as Mockingbird and Ms. Marvel appear in Avengers Assemble #1, but no one would consider them part of the "main" Avengers team. I think that the extra characters should be removed from the "current" roster, until there is concrete evidence that Avengers Assemble is anything more that a comic aimed at fans of the cartoon or the upcoming movie. Fortdj33 (talk) 02:08, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Well comics released in the same month and set in the same continuity do not always take place concurrently. For instance in the Avengers, the new Dark Avengers are already defeated, however they are still active in New Avengers. But to answer your question, most people would probably consider Avengers to take precedent over Avengers Assemble considering its publication history, so I would go with that.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 13:29, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

Well, I've tried to remove that information a couple times now, but it keeps being re-added, so I think that we need to come to a consensus on whether Avengers Assemble has anything to do with the current roster or not. The latest addition to this article not only includes Black Panther, Black Widow and Hulk as "current" members of the main team, but also uses the Marvel wiki as a reference, which is not a reliable source, in addition to Avengers Assemble and New Avengers, which have nothing to do with the "main" Avengers roster. Fortdj33 (talk) 12:32, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I notified the editor, perhaps a separate list for Avengers Assemble should be added to the roster section.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 21:32, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I also added the information above to the article about the movie, and created a redirect for Avengers Assemble (comics). Hopefully this will help us differentiate between the two incarnations of the Avengers. Fortdj33 (talk) 00:02, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
 * well avengers assemble is set in continuity as it has been affected by marvel now! and regarding roster section ,actually avengers assemble itself is not a team like secret avengers etc but it only features many current avengers coming together for a specific mission so i think a separate roster section for avengers assemble should be included or not is optional. --Shoxee1214 (talk) 12:28, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

Roster
This section seems a bit troubling, besides the fact it is entirely unsourced it also may violate WP:RELTIME and WP:CRYSTAL. Also if I am not mistaken according to the OHOTMU, you're always a member of the Avengers unless you quit or are expelled. I think this section should be removed and just point readers to List of Avengers members. Thoughts?--TriiipleThreat (talk) 15:46, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I would agree. There seems to be some edit warring, with some people trying to maintain the lineup of the current Avengers teams, and others changing the section to match the upcoming Marvel NOW lineups. Plus, the way the table is designed, makes it difficult to update. If there must be a Roster section, it should just list the roster of the main Avengers team, as the other teams each have their own articles. Otherwise, a link to List of Avengers members should suffice. Fortdj33 (talk) 16:09, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I went ahead and just pointed the section to List of Avengers members and removed the current members from the infobox (same problem). If there are any objections feel free to list them here.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 16:38, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

comment
Mighty Avengers was merged to this article. See old talk page at.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by PrimeHunter (talk • contribs) 12:06, 2 August 2008‎ (UTC)

Teen Avengers
I created a page for the animated Teen Avengers.

A Teen Avengers was just created so edit and fix that up. Also, we need to list this under animated films on the bottom template.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Darkknight13 (talk • contribs) 23:11, 26 December 2006‎ (UTC)

Fictography
There is way too much fictional, in-universe material in this article, and too much fancruft minutiae of seemingly every 2010s story arc. This needs to be cut back and have more real-world perspective added, as in Spider-Man, Superman, etc. --Tenebrae (talk) 15:51, 30 May 2013 (UTC)


 * I wholeheartedly agree.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 15:53, 30 May 2013 (UTC)


 * I'm sure the other veteran editors will as well. Oy, we've got a lot of work ahead of us...!  : )   --Tenebrae (talk) 15:59, 30 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Yep, also the huge collected editions tables should be moved to List of Avengers titles (most of it is already there, except for a few of the newer volumes) -Fandraltastic (talk) 16:01, 30 May 2013 (UTC)


 * I'm happy to help, although there's no need to remove the collected editions section, as List of Avengers titles covers more than just the main Avengers title, and each of those titles has its own collected editions section. Fortdj33 (talk) 16:46, 30 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Well, there is absolutely a need to remove the collected editions section, as it's enormous and unwieldy and is already covered on a different article. Those other Avengers title articles probably should have a link to the list page instead of tables too, but that's a discussion for those pages. -Fandraltastic (talk) 17:01, 30 May 2013 (UTC)
 * With all due respect, I disagree. The collected editions section can be cleaned up just as easily as any other section of this article. And there's no reason why that information can't be in both places, as long as this article is limited to just the Avengers title, while the List of Avengers titles is more comprehensive. Fortdj33 (talk) 17:07, 30 May 2013 (UTC)


 * How would you suggest cleaning it up? Unless we pick and choose which titles we feel are important, it's just a huge table. It's true that the list article contains more than just the adjectiveless Avengers title, but it clearly distinguishes them with separate tables and subheaders. -Fandraltastic (talk) 17:18, 30 May 2013 (UTC)


 * This information seems to all be at List of Avengers titles already, so I'm not sure the need to duplicate it here, especially as we have a "main article" link for that.


 * In any event, I'm hoping we can all pitch in on the fictography and the recentism overdetail. --Tenebrae (talk) 18:15, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

Archive of older posts on the talk page
As several of the posts on this page are rather old, it would be good to move them to an archive page. Everything would still be available for viewing but it would "clean up" the talk page for current topics. Mtminchi08 (talk) 07:34, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I added the MiszaBot/Archive to this page as it has been nearly two weeks with no objections to the archiving suggestion. Mtminchi08 (talk) 06:14, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

Are the Avengers a secret society?
Is the avengers a secret society, if so shouldn't most superhero's be liste as members of secret societies? Or should they be listed as members of gangs? CensoredScribe (talk) 16:14, 5 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Do reliable sources commonly and consistently define the Avengers as a secret society? Do reliable sources commonly and consistently define the individuals as members of a secret society? - Sum mer PhD  (talk) 16:52, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

unsigned comment added by Rymax23 (talk • contribs) 23:45, 16 May 2015 (UTC)

Lead changes
I've started this thread to give Kurzon a chance to discuss his recent changes to the lead.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 18:07, 8 June 2015 (UTC)
 * The previous lead seems to have been written by a fanboy and doesn't explain the concept of the Avengers to somebody who doesn't have a clue about superheroes. This is what I am trying to fix.Kurzon (talk) 18:13, 8 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Maybe so, but you are introducing original research with your edit. Nowhere does say that the members of The Avengers typically work alone, which maybe be true for some of the bigger characters but is not true of majority, who do not even have solo titles. There are many characters who are only known for their association with the Avengers. Also there is no referenced comparison made to the Fantastic Four (it doesn't even explain who the Fantastic Four are). The previous version actually better explained the groups origin and make-up.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 18:31, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

As a frequent contributor to this article, what are your thoughts?--TriiipleThreat (talk) 18:33, 8 June 2015 (UTC)
 * I agree that Kurzon's edit, while probably done in good faith, appears to be original research, and need to be reverted until it can be worded differently. Hopefully we can come to a consensus on how the lede should be worded, without getting into an edit war. Fortdj33 (talk) 18:43, 8 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, the wording can use some work, in particular the nickmane, the direct quote from the The Avengers prologue, and the battle cry come to mind as WP:PUFFERY. Also I have no doubt that Kurzon is acting in good faith.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 18:50, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

Original research??? Describing the basic concept of the Avengers is original research? Hey guys, I noticed yesterday that the sky is blue but I'm afraid to write that without a citation.Kurzon (talk) 18:55, 8 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, because that is your understanding of the basic concept. Our core policy of WP:Verifiability states, "Even if you're sure something is true, it must be verifiable before you can add it." Also as Fortdj33 noted do not re-revert until a consensus has been established.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 21:18, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

TriiipleThreat and Fortdj33, I agree that it is original research. In regards to lead changes, the quotes seem a bit forced. Is the battle cry really necessary? It's just that two quotes are used, one after another, and the battle cry seems out of place. Also, I believe "...has featured humans, mutants, robots, aliens, supernatural beings, and even former villains" doesn't read well. This can be summed up as "has featured various characters from the Marvel Universe, even former villains", or something along those lines. Any thoughts? JosephSpiral (talk) 22:10, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

Should a List of Avengers enemies be created
I noticed their enemies lack a list
 * At over 50 years of being published (and multiple titles for most of those 50 years), such a list would be way too long. Unless a villain has done something to specifically affect the team in the long run (such as Loki, the Skrulls, the Kree), they wouldn't need mentioning.Cebr1979 (talk) 03:35, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

Proposed merger
Please see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Comics/Archive_50.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 16:46, 16 May 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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In-universe and out-of-universe
I think that this article should be completely rewritten. "Publication history" should be the big and important section, and "fictional biography" the brief one. The main problem of the article is that the "fictional biography" includes several things that belong in the other, such as artists, noteworthy stories and introduction of characters. Cambalachero (talk) 16:17, 4 January 2017 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion: You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 11:21, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Avengers Vol 8 16 Textless.jpg

Requested move 28 February 2021

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: Not moved  (t &#183; c)  buidhe  18:02, 7 March 2021 (UTC)

Avengers (comics) → Avengers (superhero team) – Propose a move of this article to (superhero team) to disambiguate between this and comic books of the Avengers team. Per WP:NCCDAB, the (comics) disambiguation should be used for publications, such as comic books. Natg 19 (talk) 09:03, 28 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose Aren't the Avengers always, regardless of the published medium, a "superhero team". Vague. ~ HAL  333  00:24, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Sorry, my wording was unclear. This page move is to disambiguate between the characters and the comic books. Per the naming convention page I linked to, comic characters should not use the (comics) disambiguator. It says "articles primarily about characters appearing in a comic should use the phrase (character)", but I'm not sure if Avengers (character) makes sense. Natg 19 (talk) 19:51, 1 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Oppose: as ambiguous because Avengers (Marvel Cinematic Universe) exists, albeit as a redirect, and the proposed wording could theoretically cover both topics.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 19:55, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose WP:NCCDAB shows that Avengers (characters) would be the correct form. 162.208.168.92 (talk) 23:58, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

Requested move 15 January 2022

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: not moved. There is a clear consensus against the proposed move. (closed by non-admin page mover) Lennart97 (talk) 14:41, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

Avengers (comics) → Avengers – It is the primary topic and has the most long term significance. From the page views below you can see that it is the primary topic for "Avengers". Page Views Note: Although The Avengers (2012 film) gets more views (possibly due to WP:RECENTISM), it doesn’t have as much long term significance as Avengers (comics). Also the film and other things listed here are based on the comics characters themselves. Sahaib3005 (talk) 13:17, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
 * https://archive.today/ApHd4, includes all the links from the Avengers (disambiguation) page. A lot of these such as GAU-8 Avenger, Grumman TBF Avenger and Dodge Avenger don’t really count because of WP:PARTIAL.
 * https://archive.today/bEMyG, excludes most of the WP:PARTIAL matches apart from pages titled "The Avengers" such as The Avengers (TV series), "The Avenger" such as The Avenger (album) and "Avenger" such as Avenger (film).
 * https://archive.today/bl3uk, only includes pages titled "Avengers" such as Avengers (Marvel Cinematic Universe), Avengers (band) and Avengers (album).
 * Support per nom.--Ortizesp (talk) 18:11, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Oppose While Avengers (comics) has long term significance, its actually Avengers (film series) that received most views as it is the term only people know about Avengers. In other words, it can be primary topic for all other articles, but not for film series at same name. 180.254.171.124 (talk) 01:38, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
 * , like I mentioned above, the film series is based on the characters from the comics. If we were going completely by pageviews https://archive.today/LALf8 then Aquaman (film) would be titled Aquaman, Wonder Woman (2017 film) would be titled Wonder Woman, etc. You should also read the essay WP:PPT. Sahaib3005 (talk) 09:40, 16 January 2022 (UTC)


 * Support: per nom Titan Boulder (talk) 06:08, 17 January 2022 (UTC) WP:SOCKSTRIKE – Extraordinary Writ (talk) 19:02, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Support: How many people even remember that British TV show? Kurzon (talk) 09:37, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Pretty much everyone who was alive at the time and who was born in the next couple of decades! The world didn't start in 2000 and it may surprise you to know that many of us are still alive and kicking (and editing and reading Wikipedia) today! -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:09, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Strong oppose clearly WP:NOPRIMARY by any measure : unusual to see a nom which states that the article fails to garner WP:PT page views, and as for criteria 2, how can there be a PT given Avengers (Marvel Cinematic Universe)? In ictu oculi (talk) 16:23, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: WikiProject Film/Marvel Cinematic Universe task force has been notified of this discussion. InfiniteNexus (talk) 19:04, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Oppose. I find it pretty funny using WP:RECENTISM against other entries when that is literally the only reason why the comic article is as high as it is. Pre-MCU almost no one (outside the small fan base) knew or cared about this group. Per the page views, basically any MCU entry - film or group has more page views. There is absolutely no reason to place the comic article as the primary. Gonnym (talk) 19:16, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I was thinking we could turn it into a general article about the Avengers across all media. Kurzon (talk) 21:37, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Oppose. WP:RECENTISM and the current disambig page covers an extensive variety of different topics (WP:NOPRIMARY). We shouldn't be favouring one over the others. -- JascaDucato (talk &#124; contributions) 10:17, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Oppose. No primary topic, especially given Avengers (film series) and the classic and iconic The Avengers (TV series). -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:06, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Oppose Given that, at the very least, the TV series shares primariness with the comics.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 23:59, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment: I too oppose this being the primary topic. But I feel that this is an overview article like Kurzon pointed that he thought it to be. The MCU article is just an extension of this exact topic. I think this article should reflect that with it’s name title other than (comics). So I still feel that this page needs a name change if we could think of names for character teams that start out in comics. Jhenderson  7 7 7  00:50, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Oppose Agree with above. Rhino131 (talk) 04:50, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

"Draft:Avengers (television series)" listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Draft:Avengers (television series) and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 May 29 until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. ★Trekker (talk) 07:34, 29 May 2022 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Avengers (comics)
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Avengers (comics)'s orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "VarietyDisneyParks": From Avengers Campus:  From Marvel Cinematic Universe:  

Reference named "AvengersCampusMultiverse": From Marvel Cinematic Universe:  From Avengers Campus:  </ul>

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 20:50, 26 November 2022 (UTC)

Infobox character list
The character list in the infobox should be a list of characters commonly identified as being part of the team - characters like Spider-Man and Squirrel Girl, while occasionally associated, don't really belong there. Similarly, removing characters like the Hulk is not helpful. MrOllie (talk) 00:10, 30 December 2022 (UTC)


 * I agree. Jacob Wilkerson (talk) 02:05, 30 December 2022 (UTC)