Talk:Axis powers

What about the "Italian Social Republic"?
Should we add the Italian Social Republic to the Major Axis Powers? Because Mussolini also led that. 2600:1700:3680:8B70:9D75:3671:1435:D6B8 (talk) 01:41, 25 February 2024 (UTC)


 * Italy is already listed, the social republic is already mentioned. FOARP (talk) 10:06, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 9 March 2024
Why is Iraq not listed in the infobox? They were a full-fledged member of the Axis. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Iraqi_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1941_Iraqi_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat Ironzombie39 (talk) 00:23, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. The FAQ at the top says "Only the countries for which reliable sources have been found, describing the country unambiguously as a member of the Axis, should be included." As discussed previously, co-belligerents of the Axis are not considered members of the Axis and hence do not go in the infobox. The question of including Iraq in the infobox has also been discussed multiple times (see the archives), and consensus has also been against inclusion. Liu1126 (talk) 23:40, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

Issues with the map of participants in the info-box
Regarding the map of participants in the info-box, it contains inaccuracies:


 * The USSR is listed as having switched sides from the Axis to the Allies, which is in between complete falsehood and utter lunacy. Neither the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact nor the joint-but-time-offset German-Soviet invasion of Poland ever made the USSR a member of the Axis, especially not de jure.


 * Ethiopia is listed as having switched sides, but how can a colonial government (Italian East Africa) "switch sides" when it was disbanded altogether and replaced with a British military administration?

212.243.68.210 (talk) 12:58, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
 * If Ethiopia is listed as having switches sides, then Italy should have certainty been included in the list as well, but it was not. The situation with the Italian Social Republic complicates the matter, but since France is already dealt with separately (on the map) in terms of Vichy France and German-occupied France, the same could be done with Italy (showing the Italian Social Republic borders at establishment in blue, and the rest of Italy in blue but with a "switched sides from the Axis to the Allies" marker).
 * Ethiopia went from being an Italian colony to one that had been liberated and Ethiopia's full sovereignty was restored with the signing of the Anglo-Ethiopian Agreement in December 1944 (duing Ww2). Slatersteven (talk) 13:02, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
 * We do not list the USSR as a member of the Axis. Slatersteven (talk) 13:03, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
 * The map is garbage. It might well be better not to have it. FOARP (talk) 10:16, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

Where’s iraq
Iraq was an axis state in 1941 and fought alongside german forces against invading british troops 78.170.227.224 (talk) 00:56, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
 * In the section headed "7	Bilateral Pacts with the Axis Powers". Slatersteven (talk) 10:33, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Indeed. Regardless of however many times this is discussed, no sources actually defining Iraq as having been an Axis power are ever produced. FOARP (talk) 10:14, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

Iran's relations and position must to be changed--Darked.Mind (talk) 19:37, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
Hi... actually I have a request for adding more things about Iran like the relations with Germany like meeting of Hassan esfandiyari[Iran's parliament] and Adolf Hitler or stopping Allies by Reza shah for some years[he doesn't accept UK and US to use railways and help Soviet Union with gun, etc. ] , north - east Iran's railways by hitler , Hitler's promises to Reza Shah about industrialized Iran , etc. with this thing we can say Iran was an Axis but in behind the scene Darked.Mind (talk) 19:34, 8 June 2024 (UTC)


 * If we can "say Iran was an Axis" then surely a reliable source can be found that explicitly says that? After all WW2 is one of the most written-about topics in history, so if a country had been an Axis power there would be no lack of sources saying that. FOARP (talk) 10:18, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

Sentence at end of lead
"In modern term, however, the Axis was mostly referred to Germany and Japan, due to Italy's poor performance in the war."

Recommend change to

"In modern terms, however, the Axis has mostly referred to Germany and Japan, due to Italy's poor performance in the war."

if the sentence is even worth keeping. StrongLilSteven (talk) 16:51, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I totally agree with you. If the sentence were to be kept in the article, your wording would be better. However, there is no justification for having it there at all: there is no reference to any source for the statement, and it appears to be no more than the personal opinion of the person who posted it into the article, who has now been blocked from editing for disruptive editing. I have therefore removed the sentence from the article. Thank you for pointing this out. JBW (talk) 17:20, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Agree with this deletion. Indeed, the sources show "The Axis" definitely to have included Italy. FOARP (talk) 10:19, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

Only Axis powers should be listed in the infobox in an article about the Axis powers
There was an extensive discussion about why the infobox only included actual members of the Axis. It's now been changed back to its previous format without any discussion as far as I can see. This is not a Paradox game or online games forum like NationStates, we need sources to describe a country positively as having been one of the Axis powers, not whatever idea someone has just come up with on their own about what the Axis was.

The second world war is almost certainly the most written-about subject in world history. If you cannot find a source explicitly stating that a country was one of the Axis powers (or similar language) then please consider that it may not have been an Axis power, and that your idea of what the Axis powers were does not match what reliable sources say about it. It is, in fact, not easy to find reliable sources that list the members of the Axis beyond Germany, Japan, and Italy, and NONE of the sources we've reviewed so far that do try to provide exhaustive lists of Axis members include the countries that people typically want to add to the infobox - they don't include Vichy France, they don't include the USSR, they don't include Iraq, they don't include Iran, they don't include Manchuria. However, they DO typically include Bulgaria, Finland, Hungary, and Romania, and (less often) Croatia, Slovakia Thailand. You can review the sources that list Axis powers in the article, but the convenience of anyone reading this page, here's the main ones:


 * Facts About the American Wars, Bowman, p. 432 - This lists Albania, Bulgaria, Finland, Germany, Hungary, Italy, Japan, Romania, and Thailand. It discusses Croatia as well but is a bit ambiguous about whether it was an Axis member. It mentions Iraq but does not define it as having been a member of the Axis, but instead as a "puppet state" of the Allies. It explicitly describes Spain as having been neutral. There is no mention at all of Vichy France here.
 * The Library of Congress World War II Companion, Wagner, Osborne, & Reyburn, p. 39 - this defines the Axis as including Germany, Italy, Japan, Croatia, Finland, Bulgaria, Hungary, Romania, and Slovakia. Notably it does not mention Thailand. It also does not mention Iraq, Vichy France etc. as Axis countries.
 * Germany and the Axis Powers, DiNardo, particularly p.92-3 - this book does contain a list as such, and primarily focuses on Europe, but the following countries are explicitly described as Axis powers throughout the book: Germany, Italy, Japan, Finland, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria. It is more equivocal about Slovakia and Croatia, describing them as puppet countries - this does not mean they were not Axis powers in the view of the author, but neither confirms that they were. There is no mention of Iraq, Vichy France, and the usual suspects, in the context of describing who was part of the Axis.<br/

I could understand someone, based on the Bowman reference, wanting to add Albania, but since this does not match what other sources say about Albania in WW2 I'm inclined not to. Similarly I could understand someone wanting to remove Thailand since only Bowman includes in their list, though other sources appear to support this (see the sources in the section about Thailand, including the Thai historical dictionary). I can even understand just limiting the Axis to Germany, Italy, and Japan since many books/articles do only talk about those countries as "the Axis". What I can't understand is constantly trying to add Iraq/Vichy/USSR/whatever without any sources at all. FOARP (talk) 09:57, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

Albania was invaded and occupied, Thailand was not. Slatersteven (talk) 11:32, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Generally agree Steve, but more to the point: no other source I've seen says Albania was a member of the Axis so Bowman seems an outlier here.