Talk:Ayane (Dead or Alive)/Archive 1

DoA3 Winner?
There seems to be some dispute as to wether or not Ayane was the victor of the third Dead or Alive tournament. Noting the end movie of Dead or Alive 3 fighter [Zack], he is seen with a large check from the DoA tournament and betting it all at a casino. The opening movie to DoA:Xtreme Beach Volleyball shows this exact same ending and continues to show Zack winning and buying Zack island. Eventually Zack Island sinks and as a result Zack is left in severe debt, which is his reasons for entering the Dead or Alive 4 tournament, as seen not only in Zack's wiki but in the manual itself. So the storyline of DoA:XBV is in fact, canon. Zack did win the third tournament and Ayane did not. -[[User:Dullaware|Dullaware]]

I see, It was my understanding that Itagaki (the creator of DOA) had said that Ayane won DOA3. However untill I can find a credible source, I will not begin an edit war, you may do as you please. -- Psi edit 20:43, 13 March 2006 (UTC)


 * You seem to have your facts wrong, Dullaware. Ayane defeated Omega, and she is the true victor of the tournamanet. The mere reason she did recieve the title of champion is because she neglected to and left as soon as he was defeated. Zack then claimed the title by default. I don't recall saying Zack's ending or DOAX was not canon. -ZeroTalk 05:31, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

DOA4 makes it obvious that Zack won the DOA3 tournament, and that DOAX is canon in the story. However, I think Ayane's DOA3 could still have happened. In the first place, all that is shown in Ayane's DOA3 ending is her burning Genra's body. This is not proof that she necessarily defeated him at all, she is just giving him proper funeral rites. She could have collected the body after Zack defeated him. Of perhaps she defeated Genra, but then Zack defeated her to win the tournament? It's not crystal clear, but at any rate, there's nothing in Ayane's ending that makes it clear that she won the tournament or even fought against Genra.
 * http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/action/deadoralive4/news_6140710.html


 * "For gamers still in need of closure, Itagaki also revealed that Ayane was the winner of DOA3 in terms of the series' storyline."


 * AYANE IS WINNAR, and the rest follows as Zero says. Papacha 13:18, 30 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Does killing Genra actually mean that you win the tournament? Couldn't it just simply be that Ayane defeated Genra, and Zack won the tournament by defeating all competitors? Two seperate things? Seriphyn 22:17, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Not when the dude behind the scenes says she won the darn thing. Speculation's one thing, but sheesh. Papacha 02:32, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

For DOA4's canon story to make sense, Helena must have won the DOA3 tournament. So, there's your answer. Maybe before DOA4 was made it was intended for Ayane to be the official winner, but via DOA4, the winner must be Helena - any other result means that all of DOA4 can't happen. Speaking of which tons of the stuff written here that's referred to as being in the canon is horribly inaccurate and/or completely made-up like some fanfiction writer's dream scenario. This whole page needs re-writing pretty much.

Last revert - why?
"Ayane is not a morning person." is a verifiable personality trait. 152.3.141.143 14:04, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
 * That's not professional sounding and its not a personality trait. I also wouldn't consider it true. -ZeroTalk 14:30, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Not true? Maybe we're playing different games. 152.3.141.143 14:42, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Perhaps. -ZeroTalk 14:46, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Different Universes?
Excuse me but THe Xbox Ninja Gaiden and DOA do take place in the same universe. And at no point in Ninja Gaiden does Ryu Haybusa die. It has been said numerous times that Ninja Gaiden is a prequel to Dead or Alive 1 so there is no real continuity error. Disregard the Nintendo Ninja Gaidens. I'm going to edit this section, based on information straight from the games.Rayfire 19:00, 4 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Please provide a source for this. The evidence in this case is sufficient in support of the alternate universe. Ryu was literally sliced in half in the ending - how does that qualify as real continuity error? The fellow is dead.-Randall Brackett 19:08, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Iris
I would just like to say that, being the one who included the information about Ayane's name and the link to irises, that you have made a mistake to mindlessly delete my contribution. Firstly, "Ayane" is a variant spelling of "Ayame", and don't forget the 'm' or 'n' is chosen by the translator who writes the name in English, both names could be spelt exactly the same in Japanese. Secondly, regardless of whether all irises are purple or not, the PURPLE IRIS at the end of DOA 2 and in the Kasumi/Ayane FMV movie in DOA: Ultimate makes it clear that the purple iris is Ayane's symbol (and guess what, she just so happens to have purple hair and a name very similar if not identical to one meaning 'iris'!) You guys are so pedantic and picky about not allowing other people to add to articles it verges on ridiculous. Maybe, just maybe, someone else might know a thing or two as well, but pedantry and megolamania are incurable conditions! JJ
 * Ayane and Ayame are NOT written the same in Japanese. "ne" and "me" are completely distinct characters.  There is a STANDALONE "n" character that can be an m sound in certain cases, but that's not the character used here.  Beyond that, I can't claim any expertise on this character and whether an iris connection is meant or not.  However, Ayane and Ayame would be written in VERY different ways in Japanese.　あやね　is Ayane, あやめ is Ayame.  Notice the last character is different in each case, and that "aya" is the same (obviously).   72.192.237.134 21:32, 9 September 2006 (UTC)Ismail
 * There is definitely a connection between the purple iris and Ayane. It's her symbol and has been in her various FMV movies. Look for it especially in the DOA: Ultimate FMV movie that explains her background http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkhIpd2pQCY. And if "Ayane" and "Ayame" are different, why doesn't anyone actually find out what "AyaNe" means? Wouldn't that be of the greatest relevance?
 * Well, Ayane and Ayame *are* different. If Ayane means anything, then find out what it means.  This isn't like "connections exist until someone proves they don't" - this is "connections don't exist until someone proves they do."  Anyway, I'm not a big DOA player and just was contributing some information when I saw an error.  Incidentally, do you always see Ayane's name written as あやね (hiragana) and/or アヤメ (katakana) or do you ever see any kanji used to present her name?  If there are standard kanji that are used to express her name, then you can look into the traditional readings of those kanji to get what her name means.  They often have characters in anime, manga and other forms of Japanese fiction where the name intention is communicated by the kanji used to present the name.  For example, Hino Rei (Sailor Mars) has a name where the kanji tell you "Soul of Fire."
 * Judging by Wikipedia's spirit, if you can make a statement about the connection between purple irises and her that is either proven in-game or has a citation elsewhere, then that's fine, but if you can only give your own speculation, then that doesn't work. 72.192.237.134 15:50, 19 September 2006 (UTC)Ismail

It's not my own speculation I assure you. I remember the designers of DOA saying that when DOA: Ultimate is released it will reveal the importance of the purple iris seen in Kasumi's DOA 2 ending. Like I said, it's in the Kasumi/Ayane background movie in DOA: U, and it would be a reasonable assessment to say the significance the designers mentioned was that it signifies Ayane. Is there no-one else who got this too and can back me up? 80.41.44.254 17:14, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Well there you go. WHEN DOA: Ultimate is released.  I take it that it isn't yet?  When it IS released, we can say for SURE what the connection is, and even if you're right, you'll THEN be able to provide details.  Until it actually comes out it WOULD be speculation, because some of the nature of what you anticipated may be somewhat different.  We're shooting for verifiable fact here... you might say that this suggests a connection - IF you see somewhere else also mentioning a suggested connection.
 * Did you know that when the Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time was being developed, there was at least one point in the development where media outlets were under the impression it would be using the Link from Zelda 1 and 2 after the events of those games? That certainly changed by the time it came out... anyway, all I mean is that you can't say for sure until they actually release the game and you definitely see WHAT the connection is and can say something about it, not just that there is "probably" going to be some big one.  I mean, this could be IN the DOA: Ultimate article as something SUGGESTED about the game since an article like that WOULD be flagged as being under possible changes as details of a yet-to-be-released product change...  72.192.237.134 11:52, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Dead or Alive Ultimate was released on the XBox two years ago! 80.43.57.68 23:44, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Well then, if it was released two years ago... did it clarify the connection? The fact that you (it was you, right?  if not, then whoever it was) said "When this is released it will" made me think it hadn't come yet.  If the game is out and it clarifies this... okay... but if not, then why keep the speculation?  Anyway, this isn't a subject I know, so I'll leave it to those that do.  Also, all the me/ne stuff above had me make a typo in the katakana name (using me when I meant to use ne)... anyyway.  72.192.237.134 22:35, 22 October 2006 (UTC)Ismail

Fair use rationale for Image:Ayane4.jpg
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BetacommandBot (talk) 04:50, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

A picture is needed
For Kasumi too. --Asperchu (talk) 11:59, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Needs a better picture
Like maybe a cropped version of "I'm a fighter" from DOA5, for example. Possibly also some more illustrations. --194.145.185.229 (talk) 17:14, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

The A-class thread
Because apparently it's needed to be started, so be it. --Niemti (talk) 10:09, 7 September 2012 (UTC)


 * to be honest i dont believe its well organized. To many design elements mixed around with story related plot. I suggest making a "concept and design" section while making a "Apearances " section with "Dead or Alive", "Ninja Gaiden" and "other" sub-sections under it to organnize it properly.Lucia Black (talk) 00:49, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

Images
Enough with the edit warring over the images. Discuss here with some actual rationales (and not I-own-this-article). There is a comment above arguing for the use of a DOA image in the lead: consensus is leaning that way and the DOA image should be kept for now. bridies (talk) 05:15, 1 November 2012 (UTC)


 * There is already a DOA promo art for Kasumi's article. And being that these are both DOA characters from the beginning, I see no reason as to why we should keep the art from a game that doesn't even represent Ayane. An older game at that. --Anddo (talk) 05:43, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

I don't know what are you saying about Kasumi's image (which was uploaded by me, too), but the infobox picture being a "certified" promotional image means it's surely much more acceptable on Wikipedia than just something that was found on and taken from Wikia (which is not quite a reliable source to just transfer on to Wikipedia). The "older game" shows her original appearance (before the redesign) and allows people to compare, plus informs about how it also appears in another game and how, all while having the DOA5 costume actually shown all along, with it being well placed as to compare with the film version of Ayane, too. It was all quite well thought by me, see? Now, if you have something to CONTRIBUTE to the article... --Niemti (talk) 17:39, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

I would remind Anddo that it is his/her responsibility to obtain consensus for changing the image. It doesn't work that you edit war to alter something, and then demand that it remains until it is discussed. -- Escape Orbit (Talk) 20:49, 1 November 2012 (UTC)


 * It's fine I guess. It's not my article after all. --Anddo (talk) 23:37, 1 November 2012 (UTC)


 * i vote for dead or alive version of her on the infobox. It doeant make sense to put a version of her from a different series.Lucia Black (talk) 01:31, 2 November 2012 (UTC)


 * My point as well. But clearly a certain user is entitled to this article. --Anddo (talk) 02:05, 2 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Well we have some form of consensus now.Lucia Black (talk) 04:15, 2 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Well we have not. You forgot to addresss my points, when I was talking about how it's NOT purely esthetics (and why it does "make sense"). As of Ayane being "Ayane (Dead or Alive)", she's now arguably just as important for Ninja Gaiden as in DOA (in NG she's a reccurring playable second-protagonist out of only very few, and at this point she's probably bigger than NG-"native" Rachel and Momiji, while in DOA she's a major and important and popular character but there are many other recurring player characters, that is about 20 not even counting the unlockable bosses). Given her mascot-like status and multiple guest appearance even in Koei games, I think "Ayane (Tecmo Koei)" would actually be more accurate now. --Niemti (talk) 10:25, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

She was introduced in DOA and she was a main character in a DOA game. For example, Cloud is a final fantasy 7 character that appeared in other games aswell. She is more relevant to DOA than NG easily.Lucia Black (talk) 19:15, 2 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Ayane is an integral, reccurring, important part of the Ninja Gaiden series (that's unlike things like showing up in Koei's Warriors franchise for nonsensical appearances). That's just like her status in DOA and it is very opposite to the treatment of Kasumi (and every other DOA character, so to speak). It would be also cool if you finally answered, or at least acknowledged, the explaination in which I told you about the non-asthetics reasons of why I chose this picture, and the other picture (and the one that IS showing her appearance in DOA5, to repeat myself again). --Niemti (talk) 08:34, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

Nicely explained, Lucia Black. A character only really belongs in the original franchise he debuted in. --Anddo (talk) 23:41, 2 November 2012 (UTC)


 * I dont see why you are fighting this niemti. Its common sense as to why we would use the DOA version over NG. Compared to NG, she jas only appeared in very few cutscenes while in DOA she has a more relevant role. She was introduced in DOA and has a bigger role in that series. Even if that wasnt relevant, what proof do we have that the NG version of her is the most known and most reviewed version over the others?Lucia Black (talk) 04:48, 3 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Ah, "she jas only appeared in very few cutscenes" - I see you didn't read the article (the article Ayane (Dead or Alive)). She is playable in some of the games (in a way integral to the plot) and her role and presence in the series is not smaller in NG than the other 2 supporting/sidekick/alternate characters (that is Rachel and Momiji) and arguably actually bigger. Even this very picture is her appearance in one game and an alternate costume in another - which is for gameplay and not "very few cutscenes". --Niemti (talk) 08:41, 3 November 2012 (UTC)
 * But what proof do you have that her role in NG is more siggnificant than DOA other than your interpretation? If shes intergrated into the story how come theres so little about her for the NG version. Your trying to argue that because shes playable in a game where she isnt featured as often as she is in an other. You forget that she's playable in DOA in pretty mucj every game. Her role in DOA is much more relevant than just a sidekick. This is oroginal research. From the information that is gathered in the article, her role in DOA overshadows her role in NG and that makes sense. You forget her role is related strongly towards Kasumi, the main protagonist of the first two games.Lucia Black (talk) 15:21, 3 November 2012 (UTC)
 * In NG she is one of only 4 playable characters, in DOA she is only one of about 25 or so. As of why "theres so little about her for the NG version", this is article is seliberately kept short as a whole (as short as possible, especially regarding plot issues), and what exactly do you think is needed/lacking still? Also Razor's Edge wasn't yet even released yet so her plot in it is not known yet (I think). Anyway, the article is absolutely clear on her being playable, so I still don't understand. And I'll repeat: she's now a mascot character for Tecmo (along with Ryu); as such, they even lend her for Koei games (and she appears in them in NG based costumes). While Kasumi is DOA's symbol, nothing less, but also nothing more. --Niemti (talk) 21:26, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

It is irrelevant that she was playable out of 4 over another series that feature 25. The most common form of ayane is DOA.Lucia Black (talk) 22:40, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
 * "The most common form of ayane is DOA." - say again? If by "form" you mean "visual appearance", and specifically this picture of her main costume in DOA5, then no, because it's featured in only 1 game and 1 game only - and in any case it IS shown here, in this article, anyway. (As I already said.) --Niemti (talk) 23:07, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
 * no, it has nothing to do with costume but her actual appearance. The Ayane in Ninja Gaiden looks significantly different from the DOA. The Ayane in DOA is more wellknown than the Ayane in NG. The infobox absolutely has to have an image that represents the topic.Lucia Black (talk) 23:22, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Guess what: in DOA5 Ayane "looks significantly different" than in any other DOA game, and that's not just a new costume. What else you didn't know? "The topic" is the character. If you mean the name: this was the name that I chose for the article 2 years ago, after the name that was chosen in 2004. A lot of changed in the 8 years since then. Today, I would name her "Ayane (Tecmo)". Just like Yoshimitsu sttopped being "Yoshimitsu (Tekken)", and became "Yoshimitsu (Namco)", before becoming just "Yoshimitsu" eventually. --Niemti (talk) 01:11, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
 * And guess who writes the Yoshimitsu article? --Anddo (talk) 21:03, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Niemti, your argument is that Ayane is as important in NG as she is in DoA? Have you played a DoA in your life? She has actual plot in every individual release of that series, while in NG she's literally throwaway. Eye candy to compliment Ryu's story. She is an NG character, sure, but her DoA appearances were far more prevalent and substance-based. I vote to keep "Ayane (Dead or Alive)", and keep the image. There is no reason for us to assume she's a general Tecmo character when you have no proof. Show me a direct quote from the company claiming that Ayane has equal significance in both franchises. The proof is in the pudding, right? Cheers, --Anddo (talk) 00:28, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes. And no, she has no "actual plot in" DOA, it was only retconned in the DOA/DOA2 compilation-remake Ultimate. And you know what? In 1996-1998, Ayane wasn't even in the DOA series at all. And also no. Without her Ryu would not survive (plot-wise) and her presence in Razor's Edge is almost on-par with Ryu (including being available for every chapter in single-player). At this point, she has been even referred to as "Ninja Gaiden's Ayane ... alongside her Ninja Gaiden counterpart Ryu" (which is about her in Koei's 3DS Dynasty Warriors VS). I wouldn't go that far, rather something like "Ayane of Ninja Gaiden and Dead or Alive fame" would be enough (which is about her in Koei's Warriors Orochi 2). But hey, "show me a direct quote from the company claiming that Ayane has no equal significance in both franchises." And, for the n-th time, this costume is already in the article anyway (but keep ignoring this fact). --Niemti (talk) 00:53, 5 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Youre missing the point, she has a significant.role in DOA in general and she was introduced in DOA series. Not only that but the reception is based more towards the DOA version. This has nothing to do with costume, Ayane looks completely different from the original general appearance. It doesnt have to be DOA5 image. Again has nothing to do with costume especially if it constantly chamges we still have to show the DOA version of her.


 * On another mote, one source doesnt outweigh the others.Lucia Black (talk) 01:06, 5 November 2012 (UTC)


 * And you're missing the apostrophe in "you're". No, she doesn't look "completely different from the original general appearance". Or at least - not more than in DOA5. You know what? I'm going to show you her original appearance. BEHOLD. --Niemti (talk) 01:16, 5 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Let us not focus on typos. Especially when this all done on smartphone. It does not have to be the original picture either as she doesnt have to be. The point was that its not about what she wears. And compared to the image we see in DOA5 compared to the image we see in the infobox, her facial details are clearly different. Also i mention again, sources show more related to her DOA version over her NG version.Lucia Black (talk) 01:24, 5 November 2012 (UTC)


 * No, her facial features are actually very similar in NG1/3 and DOA5. She looks different in DOA1-4.(DOA4 vs DOA5) She ALSO looked actually different in the original NG2, that is before NG2S.(NG2S vs NG2) Also regarding the name - the name was representing the article originally, becuase NG wasn't even being mentioned at first. Today it's outdated. --Niemti (talk) 01:37, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Compared to the two images shown in the article, the two have distinct faces. So compared to the two we have, yes. Also considering she appeared more in DOA than any other series, the evolution of her appearance is more related to graphics update. So choosing between the two its still DOA version. And again....reception is more.related to the DOA version.Lucia Black (talk) 01:52, 5 November 2012 (UTC)


 * No, they don't. They ACTUALLY have different faces only in DOA1-4 ('anime', and here's the original concept art:) and in the original NG2 (chubby and weird). --Niemti (talk) 02:02, 5 November 2012 (UTC)


 * The point still stands niemti. Have something to say about it or just drop it. We have to over one. It may not be the strongest consensus but its still consensus.Lucia Black (talk) 02:12, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
 * What point? You don't even know what you talk about (seriously, you didn't even know Ayane's playable in Ninja Gaiden, you didn't know she was originally designed as big-eyed stereotypical anime character, etc). Here are more of original concept arts: Also, this:  old 'anime' stuff). And now your "different" faces:  as compared with  (graphics get better but big eyes remain, slowly getting smaller before DOA5's complete redesign 'to NG esthetics and here's Ayane in the upcoming NG3RE so to speak:). The end. (Or maybe you will make a 180 turn now and will start demanding the original 'anime' look of .) --Niemti (talk) 02:22, 5 November 2012 (UTC)


 * You've made a clustered debate about literally nothing at all, Niemti. Wow, I never actually thought you would stoop so low as provide third party links in your arguments. Like I said above, find me a quote from Tecmo Koei themselves that claims that she has equal significance in both Dead or Alive and Ninja Gaiden. Until then nothing you say will have credibility, so just stop trying. Oh yeah and Ayane being playable in Ninja Gaiden? That's only in two Sigma games and Razor's Edge. Meanwhile in the DoA series she's been playable in every title since the PS1 port of the very first one. That's over 8 titles. You can just stop now, thanks. --Anddo (talk) 02:42, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
 * "You've made a clustered debate about literally nothing at all, Anddo. Wow, I never actually thought you would stoop so low as provide no links in your arguments. Like I said above, find me a quote from Tecmo Koei themselves that claims that she has no equal significance in both Dead or Alive and Ninja Gaiden. Until then nothing you say will have credibility, so just stop trying. Oh yeah and Ayane being playable in Ninja Gaiden? That's only in every numbered installment of this series ever since her creation in 1998. Meanwhile in the DoA series she's been playable in every title since the PS1 port of the very first one. That's over 8 titles, and only because there are just simply more DOA games being made, also because they only began releasing new NG games in 2004 after a hiatus of a decade or so. And that's totally unlike any other DOA series character, none of which are playable in any NG game whatsoever (or make no appearances in any Warriors game for that matter, which is for NG characters, like Ayane and Ryu, and to very small extent Momiji too), and it's rather Ryu who became a reccuring character of both franchises, just like Ayane but in the opposite direction." Here you go. Good? Your style. --Niemti (talk) 10:42, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
 * What are you, 10? And you basically confirmed she has a bigger significance in DoA with 8+ titles. If all your arguments are going to center around pointing out typos, mimicking my wording, and providing proof against your own argument, you might as well retire from Wikipedia! Why are you here? How senseless, fact-devoid, and entitled can you be!? This isn't kindergarten anymore. --Anddo (talk) 21:01, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I "basically confirmed" that DOA has 8+ titles and only that. (Cool personal attacks, bro. I see you're very "combative", apparently you need to be banned, lol.) --Niemti (talk) 23:12, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Here are the non-biased facts. She was introduced in DOA, the reception is.more based on DOA version, the two.images we have now are too distinct facts. I played DOA but even if i didnt, i would still lean toward her DOA version being in the infobox over the NG.Lucia Black (talk) 02:55, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
 * What does "the two.images we have now are too distinct facts" mean? Also nice ignoring of everything that I said, while providing no counter-arguments at all. Oh, there was one, "the reception is.more based on DOA version". It's also because of NG laying dormant until 2004, and there being just no NG film (except an old anime OVA from early 1990s). But as I wrote basically all of this (there was even one about NG that I've just forgot to give it a ref and then the website went offline, so had to remove it), I can point you to things like "http://www.complex.com/video-games/2011/08/the-25-best-looking-sideline-chicks-in-games/ayane-dead-or-alive-and-ninja-gaiden-series", for example. But now return to my previous post and actually respond to it. --Niemti (talk) 10:42, 5 November 2012 (UTC)


 * thats because that wasn't the main point. you've ignored the main points. You continue to counter these smaller points. thats why i'm keeping it simple. My point still stands, you have made no counter points to it, and you continue to ignore them. your points aren't really relevant.Lucia Black (talk) 19:06, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
 * And what was "the main point"? This is the question that I've actually asked you before ("What point?"), got ignored and received only a typically rambling response from Anddo. --Niemti (talk) 23:12, 5 November 2012 (UTC)


 * The two images we have on this article look DIFFERENT, in more ways than just costume, their faces look different. We already have consensus.Lucia Black (talk) 19:07, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
 * No, you are mistaken. It's the same face. DOA5 is using her NG face (repeating for really the last time) - with red lips and relatively small eyes and big nose. As opposed to the now-abandoned 'anime' style of the DOA series 1996-2012. --Niemti (talk) 23:35, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Either image works just fine. Someone flip a coin or something, so you can move on to something else. This is a waste of time. Sergecross73  msg me   20:02, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
 * you underestimate the relevance of an infobox image.Lucia Black (talk) 20:17, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
 * That's a rather melodramatic claim. It's not like she had a radical redesign that would make her unidentifiable if a reader had only seen her in one game or the other. Sergecross73   msg me   20:58, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Radical redesign? no, redesign nontheless? yes. The current Ayane we have in the infobox (Ninja Gaiden) and the promotional poster (Dead or Alive) look significantly different. That and she was introduced in "Dead or Alive" and the reception is more related to her "Dead or Alive" version over her "Ninja Gaiden". the image isn't there for mere "decoration".Lucia Black (talk) 21:05, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
 * While I have absolutely no preference one way or another, I would suggest that, all other things being equal, it is usual to feature the most recent image in the info box. Certainly that's what would happen in an article about a real person.   If there are marked difference between the two game series then you simply feature the other, older, images in the appropriate place in the article.  I think people are getting far too heated over a minor detail. -- Escape Orbit  (Talk) 21:13, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, as Escape Orbit has said, this is especially ridiculous considering both images can be used in the article. Put one in the infobox, and the opposite in the section for the respective game. Done. Sergecross73   msg me   21:18, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Except it won't make sense (scroll up, I've all explained why it does now somewhere at the start of this discussion, got ignored). Actually, now as I think about it, I would maybe add another picture - of this original 'anime' style, to either Design section or the Dead or Alive section. Possibly even one of those concept arts that I've linked to here (and got ignored, of course). --Niemti (talk) 23:12, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Let me repeat myself (again, but for the last time): it's same design, now. DOA5 characters are made in NG style (both series are now 100% compatible), THIS was the redesign that the article is talking about, as opposed to the 'anime' style DOA1-4 (also Ultimate and Dimensions, and to an extreme extent in DOA1). Somehow, the original NG2 (not NG2s) was also different, but it's not in the article. For details, including links to comparison pictures, see my previous posts in this very thread (the ones that you skipped, ignored or maybe forgot already, whatever you did go and read it now). Btw: even her newest appearance is this in NG3RE, not in DOA5. --Niemti (talk) 23:30, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

i guess no one here is familiar with undue weight.Lucia Black (talk) 21:20, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Alright, I've given my two cents. Not falling into this nonsense again. You wanted input and you've gotten it: both parties are being being stubborn about trivial details. If you want to keep wasting time, that's between you and Niemti. Sergecross73   msg me   21:26, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
 * what nonsense "again"? its true. it's clearly undue weight to choose the version of NInja Gaiden over Dead or Alive, when we have no proof that inja gaiden is the most iconic version of Ayane? In face, the sources show that Dead or Alive version is the most well known overall. And i asked someone for their thoughts to end the discussion. Make a vote, and end it. We already voted, no use asking us.Lucia Black (talk) 21:30, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
 * No one here ever claimed "that inja gaiden is the most iconic version of Ayane", and certainly it wasn't me (I never said anything about "most iconic", and which would probably be the 'anime' look that is now outdated in every sense of this word). I think you should re-read again what I wrote (just as you somehow missed the very clearly-stated information about Ayane being a playable character in the NG series in this article, now you seems to have either missed or misunderstood almost everything that I wrote to you). --Niemti (talk) 23:12, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Let's just reach a consensus right here, and right now. The answer is pretty obvious to me, I'm for the DoA image. --Anddo (talk) 21:37, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
 * You don't know what Wikipedia consensus is. (Protip: It's not based on voting.) --Niemti (talk) 23:12, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Haha, that's cute mate. --Anddo (talk) 02:51, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Mmmm, cute mates. --Niemti (talk) 12:48, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh buddy. --Anddo (talk) 19:22, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Having never played either series, here's my input. I have no idea which is the most recent game but put her appearance from that game in the infobox with a caption 'Ayane shown in her most recent iteration in whatever game it is'. Feel free to paraphrase. That seems like common sense does it not? If her apperance really changed so drastically from earlier games, note it somewhere in the article and use an image if appropriate. Note that in Mario a recent version of the character is used not the original 8 bit sprite. Cabe 6403  (Talk•Sign) 11:38, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Ditto. Use most recent. If appearance has drastically changed, write prose section and add comparison image if appropriate. There's still room on WP:LAME for a wafer thin mint. - X201 (talk) 12:08, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
 * This would be this, and which would be (gasp!) Ninja Gaiden (to be released next Sunday). The only drastic change was the abandonment of the old-school 'anime' look, the faces in NG and and DOA5 are now the same (contrary to what Lucia Black so persistently claims after seeing two low-res pictures here on her smartphone). --Niemti (talk) 12:43, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Lets keep this on the topic of which photo and ignore users conduct in previous comments. @Lucia Black, would you agree that the most recent incarnation of the character is the appropriate picture to use? Cabe  6403  (Talk•Sign) 13:02, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Even if we were to follow that plan, Razor's Edge is a rerelease of NG3 with more content, so it wouldn't be counted as a new game. Therefore we would STILL keep the DoA5 image. Would Ocarina of Time 3D be counted as a new Zelda game? --Anddo (talk) 19:22, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Ok i've been gone for a while, due to things i have to take care of on real life. If the most iconic version of Ayane isn't the Ninja Gaiden version (which we all seem to agree), then all the more reason to use the Dead or Alive version. It's alot more complicated than just using the latest version because she comes out in multiple series. Since the reception is mostly about her Dead or Alive version, she was introduced in her Dead or Alive version, then it only seems reasonable to use the latest version of her within the Dead or Alive series, not the latest version overall.Lucia Black (talk) 20:19, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
 * So, use the most recent version (a NG version) until the next DoA series release happens? It's a minor issue, as far as I can tell she doesn't look spectacularly different. Still, if someone wants to create a montage picture with both character models in it... Cabe  6403  (Talk•Sign) 21:33, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
 * No....use only DOA versions in the infobox, and put latest NG version under "ninja gaiden" section, as thats what the reception leans toward and she was introduced in that series.Lucia Black (talk) 21:35, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
 * If the people involved here can't agree to (what I believe) seems to be a fair compromise, it may be worth starting an RfC to get a wider opinion. Although, from those coming into this dispute from outside (i.e. those not originally involved) the consensus appears to be to use the latest version regardless of what series. Cabe  6403  (Talk•Sign) 08:49, 8 November 2012 (UTC)
 * It's only LB and LB only. --Niemti (talk) 13:09, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

Cabe, we have to put an image in the infobox that represents the article correctly. It is undue weight to put Ninja Gaiden version over the Dead or Alive version, especially when she was introduced in said series (and continues to appear in that series) and reception leans toward her Dead or Alive version. I have no idea why this information is being ignored, but it helps my case into using the Dead or Alive version over the Ninja Gaiden version. Using the latest version would work well if she was only in one series, but it doesn't make sense if she appears in another series because it wouldn't be based on the article.Lucia Black (talk) 20:04, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

Also, i'm not the only one going against the compromise. It's just Anddo agrees due to it still coming in our favor. I reject the idea because it seems like a cheap compromise.Lucia Black (talk) 20:08, 8 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree, but sometimes you have to choose your battles. This is the only other way Niemti will get it. --Anddo (talk) 22:15, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

Who cares. We got two voting for DOA version on the infobox. Niemti wants NG. 2 others voted fornthe latest version meaning the image will continue to change over and over by each game. There really is no room for compromise when we have enough to win consensus. Its undue weight to use Ninja gaiden versuon PERIOD!Lucia Black (talk) 00:18, 9 November 2012 (UTC)
 * You don't get it. Niemti has the stubbornness of ten users. He won't let this go. One slip and he'll get right back on it. He's like a stuck-up little guy who will constantly want his way. Sorry, but this is the best we'll get. --Anddo (talk) 01:55, 9 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I dont really care. We had consensus. Im not going to let it he wavered just because an editor is stubborn. Im bit gonna compromise when we were clearly winning. Im sorry but the new editors in this discussion are only trying to find a compromise when we want a decision. So instead if helping the situation they attempt to be nuetral and choose a more difficult situation. Im sticking to the most reasonable choice, any other will just give the article undue weight.Ă Its only one editor!Lucia Black (talk) 02:41, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

No comment. --Niemti (talk) 03:24, 9 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Perfect. Then you wont get in the way of what has already been decided.Lucia Black (talk) 03:33, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

See? That's your "working collegially", and other buzzwords, and I'm such a bad guy. The gross-est editor that ever was, and totally not deserving "the community". --Niemti (talk) 04:50, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

You have yet to bring a cmpelling reason why we should keep the Nnja Gaiden version over the Dead or Alive other than original research. We mentioned non-bias reasons and thise continye to be gnored.Lucia Black (talk) 19:09, 9 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I did. Repeatedly, and then again. You "gnored" them each time, and without responding even to my questions to you (also repeated). Btw, it's no longer even a question of "Nnja Gaiden version over the Dead or Alive", but of course you "gnored" this too. --Niemti (talk) 19:11, 9 November 2012 (UTC)
 * False. You only attempted to counter the minor points. I ignored them for the sake of not deviating from the main point because even if you were right about that, it wouldnt help your case. You ignored the main points. Here they are:The article prominently based on the Dead or Alive version and she was inroduced in that series. Any other version of her would be undue weight.Lucia Black (talk) 19:19, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

Guys, calm down a little. It's true that this trivial image problem has thrown us all off, and I take full responsibility for instigating it, but there's no need for continued rebuttals and bad faith. Let's just end this. We're done with the image. Let's move on. --Anddo (talk) 20:45, 9 November 2012 (UTC) Thats where ill have to disagree with you Anddo. If an image causes undue weight, then it is not trivial.Lucia Black (talk) 20:51, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

Obviously a voluntary resolution to this dispute is not going to happen. I suggest if you cannot resolve the issue, take it to WP:RfC. This debate is going round and round. Third parties have given their opinion on what is a suitable resolution but they have been rejected as it seems no one wants to budge at all Cabe  6403  (Talk•Sign) 09:07, 10 November 2012 (UTC)


 * This "one" in "no one" is LB and LB only (as I already said). Check the new image, look who uploaded it. --Niemti (talk) 00:20, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

Give me one unbias reason as to why we should use the Ninja Gaiden image over the Dead or Alive version in the infobox and i will move on. Cabe you trying to compromise an issue that cant be compromised, instead analize the reasons and convince the others why their previous reasoning is wrong or not correct. The issue with third opinion (technically 4th) is that they refuse to help editors for future situations such as these. A compromise wont help make editing better it just allows the cycle of the need for third party opinion whenever things such as this conflict.Lucia Black (talk) 21:45, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry, there was a post in WP:VG requesting a third opinion on this matter. I've given my opinion, as requested, and I am not interested in arguing over a matter I have little knowledge in. Quite frankly, it's a rather trivial dispute blown out of proportion. For the average reader the image coming from DoA or NG is irrelevant. Either you accept a voluntary compromise (not going to happen, as you've said) or you take it further (i.e. RfC). Additionally, you asked for the third opinion but you just dismiss everyone else if they aren't agreeing for you. Consider this when you take it to RfC. Cabe  6403  (Talk•Sign) 22:53, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

Completely relevant because if we would use the Ninja Gaiden version in the infobox (a box that summarizes info of the article as a whole) then we will have to prove how the Ninja Gaiden version is more significant than her original appearance. Lets see every single people who were part of the discussion. 2 editors who contributed nothing to the discussion, two editors who attempt a compromise, one who agrees but got tired of it all, and the one who makes editing dofficult to begin with by taking WP:OWN like measures. Also the article is more related to her Dead or Alive version. AGAIN....UNDUE WEIGHT.

Ots a discussion. Not a voting system. Im not asking for your vote im askng to review the situation and provide an answer based on the circumstances. Not a compromise for the sake of ending a discussion.Lucia Black (talk) 23:41, 10 November 2012 (UTC)


 * The page currently has an image containing two versions of Ayane: one from each series. This seems overkill considering most people probably just recognize her as the girl with purple hair, but I believe the image is a fair compromise. --Odie5533 (talk) 05:07, 14 November 2012 (UTC)
 * You said it yourself, it is overkill. It should comprise of the one image that actually makes sense in the infobox. The DoA art. --Anddo (talk) 06:19, 14 November 2012 (UTC)
 * We aren't overloading readers by showing both versions. If some editors believe that having the NG image is correct and some believe having the DoA one is correct, then we can arrive at a compromise by having both. --Odie5533 (talk) 06:30, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

It is only one who believes the NG is correct. While AnddoX and I believe the DoA for less subjective reasons than what niemti has.Lucia Black (talk) 19:49, 14 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Keep ignoring everyone who told you to use the most recent version or to agree for a compromise. They don't exist / are all wrong / are only my sock puppets. --Niemti (talk) 19:54, 14 November 2012 (UTC)


 * The compromise was done to end the discussion, not find a solution. We have 2 who believe the DoA version is best, and yu are the only one who wants the NG version. the only reason you would like the compromise is because you believe it goes in your favor, so its not a rrue compromise. Plus they ignored everything stated and have no intention of looking into further detail of the situation.Lucia Black (talk) 20:01, 14 November 2012 (UTC)
 * No, you "ignored everything stated" and didn't agree to "rrue compromise" (I did, and twice). And like the others, I'm also not going to discuss it with you any further. --Niemti (talk) 20:38, 14 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Like i said, your points to used is mainly "i believe Ayane is more relevant in NG than in DOA because she's playable within 4 characters while she is playable out of 20 other characters." Which in turn is subjective. My point is that the infobox represents the info of the main article, using NG version over DoA version would mean the article focuses more on her NG version over DoA version in which you admit she isnt. What points have you made that i ignored that actually made a dofference in this discussion?Lucia Black (talk) 00:46, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Just read them. Either again or actually for the first time. --Niemti (talk) 09:29, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

I have, and they really don't matter. They don't help your argument at all.Lucia Black (talk) 18:24, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for confirming once again how talking to you was a complete waste of time (of everyone). See ya. --Niemti (talk) 20:56, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
 * all you did was compare images, which even then doesn't support yourt main reason, in which is subjective. The article revolves mainly around the Dead or Alive version, its common sense to use that version.Lucia Black (talk) 19:05, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
 * You didn't read. --Niemti (talk) 19:15, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
 * if you want this discussion to move along, then please re-state, as i have for probably the 15th time.Lucia Black (talk) 19:17, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

Comment - This issue is just not worthy of this much time and effort. With that said, please conclude it and move on. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 05:40, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

There is more than enough reason to use Dead or Alive version over Ninja Gaiden. On another note, it takes too much space in the infobox to use both versions, so all the more reason to use one.Lucia Black (talk) 15:08, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Indeed. The current picture is also really low res, because of the needless stretching. I might just need to make a change... --Anddo (talk) 02:14, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

OK, I'll come back once "someone" is blocked and the pic deleted
Which will be soon. And then maybe you'll find yourself another obessesion.

Oh, and there was no "another editor". --Niemti (talk) 17:27, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

this is simple. add Ninja Gaiden image to its respected section. keep the DOA5 version up in the infobox, and remove or modify DOA5 image from original DOA image. that simple. We've discussed this in the past, and most people didn't care, but me and AnndoX have stated why. And now Service Ghost too (despite you claiming he's about to get blocked). Point is, the character's original appearance should appear, regardless if you think she has a bigger role in NG. keep your personal opinions to yourself, or i will save it for a time to put in ANI. it's that simple.Lucia Black (talk) 17:31, 15 October 2013 (UTC)


 * No, becuase the design changes were originally made for DOA5 and the text is about this game, while NG just follows the new ("realistic") design. User:AnddoX (not "AnndoX") is indef blocked and thus less than nobody, "Ghost" - we'll see, shall we. And you can go and "save it for a time to put in ANI. it's that simple" anytime. --Niemti (talk) 17:40, 15 October 2013 (UTC)


 * that makes no sense or rather it's not a strong reason against DOA5 image in the infobox.Lucia Black (talk) 17:45, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
 * No, because the infobox is not illustrating this section, the section where they talk about the fundamental design changes first implemented in DOA5 (and the image used in the section illustration fits well because it's so similar to the one from DOA4 for a good comparison). Also, try and give me some common decency of using capital letters and proper punctuation marks or either I'll decide you're just disrespectful and I'll stop talking to you anymore (I just remembered I shouldn't even talk to you in first place, because it never ever leads anywhere). --Niemti (talk) 17:51, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
 * You're not getting me into this. i gave fair warning, that's all. i'm not playing around with incivility. The infobox illustrates the entire article, there's no section where it doesn't. Therefore, DOA5 image is the best to use even if NG3 follows similar trend. Not only that, but that's the series she originates in and has a more prominent role compared to NG series.Lucia Black (talk) 18:01, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
 * The entire article isn't about DOA5, and DOA5 is already used (and so is this very costume, out of literally scores of her costumes at tht point). Btw, Ayane biggest role was actually in DOA3 (which was over a decade ago) and in DOA5 she's just Ryu's Hayate's sidekick (she's literally kneeling for him as he's ordering her around) - in NG3 she's at least independent-ish (and in NG1 it was her bossing Ryu around, to the point of Ryu optionally becoming her "ninja dog"). What you think is "a more prominent role" is actually just a small part of story mode in DOA5 (as just a sidekick), while in NG3RE you can acually play the entire game using her (in addition to her own exclusive campaign). --Niemti (talk) 18:09, 15 October 2013 (UTC)


 * i'm not looking at one game, i'm looking at an entire series. NG had more "guests" appearance and not much new info. most of her design comes from DOA version too. and most of her appearances are still DOA. So it should be fair to have DOA version of her in infobox.Lucia Black (talk) 18:47, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Whatever "new info"? DOA/NG characters are largely blank, their entire official biographies are two-sentences long. (NG3 actually attempted to humanize Ryu and turn him into a fleshed-out/complicated "unmasked" character, the effects were poor.) Do you even know anything about these games? Anyway, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:ServiceGhost --Niemti (talk) 13:25, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

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Ayane in Dead or Alive 7, Dead or Alive Xtreme 4 and Ninja Gaiden 4
Ayane will playable in Dead or Alive 7, Dead or Alive Xtreme 4 and Ninja Gaiden 4. 2001:48F8:300B:E5E:D16F:2F71:DE16:4184 (talk) 06:49, 23 February 2023 (UTC)

Ayane in Ninja Gaiden '88
Ayane will appeared in Ninja Gaiden '88, an anime-styled comic book limited series that takes place fifteen years after the events of Ninja Gaiden II: The Dark Sword of Chaos (1990). 2001:48F8:300B:3DB:D731:1600:3045:D274 (talk) 06:35, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

Kasumi and Ayane are sisters
Kasumi and Ayane are both half-sisters and cousins in the Dead or Alive series. 2001:48F8:300B:3DB:501F:6213:B929:D200 (talk) 06:42, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

Infobox image priposal
I feel like her appearance in Dead or Alive 6 would be suitable for the infobox image because she looks like a real ninja and has better quality than the current one, in which she looks like a call girl (sorry, I'm not familiar with the DOA series). 🍕 Boneless Pizza! 🍕 (🔔) 23:55, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I went with this one because the bow outfit is her most iconic look, which should be used for the infobox. It ties directly into her dev info.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 00:11, 14 June 2024 (UTC)