Talk:Ayatollah

Untitled
This page says there are 6 living Grand Ayatollahs, but Qom lists 15. One must be incorrect...

6?
Ali al-Sistani's full name is Sayyid Ali Husaini Sistani... There is also a Grand Ayatollah named Sayyid Ali, but it redirects to Ali al-Sistani. - 68.23.103.58 03:25, 21 May 2005 (UTC)

changes in the Iranian policies
The changes in the Iranian policies is completely wrong. Playing chess (gambling), women appearing on T.V. without hijabs and gender-changing never took place, instead it was the exact opposite. Below is the correct version: Under Khomeini's rule Shia Islamic law was instituted, the strict Islamic dress code (hijab) became the law and was enforced for both men and women. Women lost many of their rights, and while freedom of speech and press continued to be almost as curtailed as it was under the Shah, the oppression of the "morality police" made life extremely difficult for those opposed to the veil. Khomeini became the center of a large personality cult, and opposition to the religious rule or Islam in general was often met with harsh punishments.

Clarification
In the first paragraph there is the following statement: "Sometimes the title Allama is equivalent to Ayatollah. Nowadays the Ayatollah title is more prestigious than Allama." I don't know enough about the subject to correct it but these two statements contradict each other. What I think the author wanted to say is "the title Allama used to be equivalent to ayatollah."

Is there an article which discusses the clerical ranks because if not they should be listed and explained in much detail. Hajjagha 20:54, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Is Khamenei a Grand Ayatollah?
I believe that Khamenei's rank is Ayatollah not Grand Ayatollah, unless it was changed very recently. There was a big fuss made about this when he became Supreme Leader. Every source seems to agree with me except for his own website.

--Dejo 16:58, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Simpsons
I am removing (for the second time) a paragraph summarizing an episode of The Simpsons. While I am a fan of The Simpsons, it has no place on a piece of scholorship about the meaning of the title Ayatollah. At least not one of this scope.--Counsel 05:36, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

I put it back in (for the mmth time). The paragraph does not summarize an episode of the Simpsons. The paragraph discusses a common modification of the term "Ayatollah," and a pop-culture reference example of that usage. It is certainly germane to the entry on the word, and is no more out of place than the Rugby discussion.


 * Still not convinced that the extent of Homer Simpson's understanding of Ayatollah politics adds to the understanding of this subject. At least it should be placed in a section on popular culture as in other articles.--Counsel 21:58, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Popular Culture
Some narrow minded person mocked and blapshmed under the topic Ayotallah in Popular Culture.Khomeni is regarded as a high ranking reliious personality in Islam and no one has the rigt to mock him like that.So i think it is fair enough that i have deleted this topic.
 * I have removed it in the past as well. I do not think that it's being blasphemous should the issue.  I simply do not think that it is relevent to this article.  I agree that it should be removed.--Counsel 22:11, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Calims of racism
The claims of racism are not from a neutral perspective. This was a mourning ritual of people involed so it could be viewed only as an ironic replication of that. It may be in bad taste but not bigoted. How is it ridiculing those who did it or those who are of the same religion? Also, it would be religious persecution not racisim anyway. Finally bigotist and biast are not even words.

12.40.254.66 20:22, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Wrong Transliteration
The transliteration of the Arabic word is Ayatullah not Ayatollah. Why is the later being used?Muhammad Mahdi Karim 15:46, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Understanding of Islam
I do not understand to why these men/women, leaders of Islam - do not stop violence which is taken under their name and religion.

The Pope as an example of Catholicism, always condemns violence, killing and evil deeds - yet in Islam, the leaders do/say nothing.

I do not understand how Islam can fit into this world, if these men were true to Islam, then they would stop the fighting and killing.

Shia killing Sunni, Sunni killing Shia – terrorism, killing of innocent people, unrest in the Eastern world has always been in place for many many years.

Surely, as Gandhi did in the 1940's - there must be a strong leader that would put an end to this? For all men to live side by side in peace – regardless of creed, politics or religious beliefs?

Or is Islam really that pathetic, that it only serves as a political machine pretending to be a religion - with a middle age view on taking over the world?

Surely, in today’s world - there is no room for 'many' Gods - only 'one' what ever his name is.

I don't believe that any of these so called 'Ayatollah's' deserves their title or social/moral standing.

They are not worthy.

PS - do not issue a fatwah on me for daring to be so bold as to speak my mind!

These ayatullahs have issued numerous fatwas condemning violence. For more info check out the page of Ayatullah Ali Seestani of Iraq. The violence does not stop however, because people do not always follow what they say, just like people disobeying the pope. Muhammad Mahdi Karim 11:32, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Any muslim condemning terror is practising taqiya (ie lying for islam)

(p)is(s)lam is a fascist cult of terror and death. Satan cities mecca and medina should be nuked. Islam should be banned. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.68.98.95 (talk) 17:32, 2 September 2007 (UTC)


 * This isn't a forum, please use this page to discuss improvements to the article onlyMantion 10:04, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Confusing sentances
'Westerners who say "the Ayatollah" usually mean Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, who brought the word into the international limelight during the 1979 Iranian Revolution; a possible secondary meaning would be the term's use to indicate the serving Supreme Leader of Iran.'

I think the information is remotely important, and very poorly written. Can someone please reword or remove the sentences. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mantion (talk • contribs) 10:06, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Personally I think the whole part about "usually when westerners say" is pretty shifty, especially considering it appears to be an uncited piece of personal opinion. Feel free to revert my deletion of it, but if you feel that it is necessary to have in there I'd prefer it if you cited some sources and based it on something substantial. Peter Deer (talk) 12:27, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Seminaries of Islamic science
Using a simple Google test, about the only reference I can find for the term "seminary of Islamic science" is this article and various mirrors. I changed it to the simpler "Islamic seminaries". Note that the target article, Hawza, doe snot mention the term "Islamic science", and it's also strongly counter-intuitive, since there is nothing obviously scientific in what's taught at a religious seminary. There is no obvious connection to Islamic science here. Cruftbane 07:45, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Are Ayatollahs notable?
There's a discussion going on at Articles for deletion/Hoseini nasab about whether Ayatollahs should be considered notable for Wikipedia by virtue of the rank alone, or how much it should contribute to wikipedia notability. Informed opinions would be welcome. John Z (talk) 23:20, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Clarify?
The article states that "Only a few of the most important ayatollah are accorded the rank of Grand Ayatollah", yet according to the lists provided, there are currently 47 Ayatollahs and 66 Grand Ayatollahs. Is this right? -  thewolfchild  20:11, 9 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Both lists are incomplete. We have fewer Ayatollahs in the list because they are not that famous and there are numerously less sources available for them.-- Sayed Mohammad Faiz Haider t c s 09:54, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

Request for a change
Hello,

I have a request for a change.

The sentence 'Those who carry the title are experts in Islamic studies'

Change to: 'Those who carry the title are experts in the Shi'itic Islamic studies'

Reason: Only the Shia (10% to 15% of the Muslim community), know and accept the concept of an Ayatollah.

The way that is studied, differ majorly with Sunni (85% to 90% of the Muslim community) The title of Ayatollah does not exist within the Sunni Moslim community.

Shia believe that only a family member of Muhammad(S) can be the leader of the Muslims (The Ayatollah Marjda "taqlid in abscense of the Imam). Sunnie believe that the believe in God and his Messenger(s) are not related to family or bloodties.

This difference affects majorly on the way one studies the Quran with the help of the Hadith collections.

The common ground is the Quran, but there are also 10 books of Hadith

The Sunni have 6 books of ahaadith (reports), isnad is used on ahaadith (reports)

The Shia have 4 books of ahaadith (reports), isnad is not used on ahaadith (reports)

Isnad; Sunnis classify individual reports (ahaadit) in three parts, Authentic, Good, Weak. However there is no general agreement, each scholar can classify an individual report differently. — Preceding unsigned comment added by FaridIshak (talk • contribs) 01:27, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 18:21, 29 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Najaf Marji.jpg

Request for comments
Greetings to all,

A Request for comment has been initiated regarding RfC about whether to allow use of honorofic 'Allama' with the names or not?

Requesting your comments to formalize the relevant policy @ Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Islam-related articles

Thanks

Bookku (talk) 18:00, 9 July 2020 (UTC)