Talk:Ayman al-Zawahiri

Alive...
He was not killed in the bombing and he has a new tape out: http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/news/world/13748692.htm -- cheers, &mdash;This user has left wikipedia 18:41 2006-01-30
 * No such valid link. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.111.41.243 (talk) 22:02, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

Involvement in 9/11
What is his involvement in 911? It seems like a fundamental thing that needs to be addressed in the article. Has he ever admitted to staging the attacks? Is there any evidence of his involvement? Is it even alledged that he was involved? ect. 68.188.25.170 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 14:37, 17 June 2011 (UTC).
 * Looks like there is no evidence about his involvement in 9/11.



In fact, there is no evidence that Zawahiri had a role in the planning of any of al-Qaeda’s major anti-American attacks against the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in 1998, the USS Cole in Yemen in 2000, and 9/11 itself.


 * --Jo1971 (talk) 19:39, 22 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Just some author's opinion, way out of the mainstream sources. 50.111.41.243 (talk) 22:04, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

2022 Reports of His Death
Multiple media reports that he was taken out in a missile strike this past weekend. Sources: U.S. kills Al-Qaeda leader Ayman al-Zawahri in drone strikeMichael Martinez (talk) 21:45, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

Dead?
Preliminary reports indicate that al-Zawahiri was killed this past weekend. Cullen328 (talk) 21:47, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

Death of Ayman al-Zawahiri
He dead 47.146.172.202 (talk) 22:04, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

Al-Qaeda
Now that he died, who is the leader of al-Qaeda?? Georgia guy (talk) 22:04, 1 August 2022 (UTC)


 * Alarabiya: https://english.alarabiya.net/News/world/2022/08/02/AP-sources-US-operation-killed-al-Qaeda-leader-al-Zawahri Geopony (talk) 23:09, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 August 2022
2600:6C52:7E3F:E95B:E4B2:B921:9E4B:E591 (talk) 22:31, 1 August 2022 (UTC) Nov 20, 2020 Reports claimed that Ayman al-Zawahiri, the head of the dreaded terrorist organization Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan, died in a month due to natural causes
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 22:34, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

Source
Geopony Hey what source confirmed the death date? Aaron106 (talk) 23:04, 1 August 2022 (UTC)


 * Alarabiya reported in Arabic that the drone strike occurred on Kabul on Sunday:
 * https://www.alarabiya.net/arab-and-world/2022/08/02/%D9%85%D8%B3%D8%A4%D9%88%D9%84%D9%88%D9%86-%D8%A3%D9%85%D9%8A%D8%B1%D9%83%D9%8A%D9%88%D9%86-%D9%85%D9%82%D8%AA%D9%84-%D8%A3%D9%8A%D9%85%D9%86-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B8%D9%88%D8%A7%D9%87%D8%B1%D9%8A-%D8%A8%D8%BA%D8%A7%D8%B1%D8%A9-%D9%86%D9%81%D8%B0%D8%AA%D9%87%D8%A7-%D8%B7%D8%A7%D8%A6%D8%B1%D8%A9-%D9%85%D8%B3%D9%8A%D8%B1%D8%A9
 * and in English the Guardian cites an official speaking on condition of anonymity saying the drone strike was carried out in Kabul on Sunday:
 * https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/01/us-strike-afghanistan-kills-al-qaida-leader-ayman-al-zawahiri
 * and the Associated press says "urrent and former officials began hearing Sunday afternoon that al-Zawahri had been killed in a drone strike"
 * https://apnews.com/article/ayman-al-zawahri-al-qaida-terrorism-biden-36e5f10256c9bc9972b252849eda91f2

Geopony (talk) 23:11, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

Ok thanks Aaron106 (talk) 23:15, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Joe Biden is expected to make an official statement in ten minutes. Cullen328 (talk) 23:23, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

I already know he died, I was just asking about the death date. --Aaron106 (talk) 23:26, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

Independent Verification?
Has there been any independent verification that Dr. Zawahiri has been killed? When OBL died, al-Qaeda came out with a statement confirming his death very quickly.Inkan1969 (talk) 01:41, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Truly independent verification is unlikely in Taliban controlled Kabul. That being said, public statements by al Queda and the Taliban should be summarized, as soon as they are released and described by independent, reliable sources. Cullen328 (talk) 02:49, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
 * The Taliban released a statement condemning the attack. Andrevan @ 15:24, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
 * If/until another source confirms they got him, I suggest Wiki uses language such as "alleged, claimed, etc." - this administration is constantly being shown to be incorrect in foreign and domestic matters, and  the last such strike killed an  innocent man and his children in Afghanistan. 50.111.41.243 (talk) 11:53, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
 * No, CNN stated multiple streams of intelligence confirmed it. RS are reporting it. It's not an allegation, and your doubt seems to have a political bent. Andrevan @ 15:25, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
 * um, no, but thanks for the goofy comment - multiple RS's reported it immediately,  but there has still not been independent confirmation-certainly not from any Western journalist 50.111.41.243 (talk) 19:16, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
 * It looks like the text I was quoting from CNN that said "multiple streams of intelligence confirmed" has been rewritten slightly. They've now posted another piece: I haven't seen any RS doubting the reports of Zawahiri's death and multiple news orgs, including the BBC, are on the site now. Andrevan @  19:22, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 2 August 2022
Needs significant editing. This is a high-schooler with an opinion:

“ The main point of the strike, in Kabul, is to show that the US can still hit targets in Afghanistan without having "boots on the ground". The timing of his death comes following the US's: "chaotic withdrawal from Afghanistan last year".[178] “ 2605:A601:AB57:8800:98B5:4F47:55F2:DEB7 (talk) 03:31, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes, someone else removed that paragraph. — Coolperson177 (t&#124;c) 15:16, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 2 August 2022 (2)
His daughter must have died in 2001 and not 2005. The wiki article states that she was 5 years old and born in 1997. Also guardian states this age. https://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/2011/jun/19/ayman-zawahiri-observer-profile 2A02:AA7:4609:8819:F60C:41C6:2083:21C (talk) 05:13, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
 * ✅ by another editor. — Coolperson177 (t&#124;c) 15:06, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Minor tweak to the "cause of death" hyperlink in his infobox; semi-protected edit request
I've noticed that on the pages of some other notable historical figures whom were assassinated, their causes of death will usually state how they died and then link to the main article concerning that person's death.

Thus, I propose linking to the corresponding article, entitled https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Ayman_al-Zawahiri, where it says that he died as a result of a drone strike. Like it says on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F._Kennedy's page, for instance. Ryanisvibing (talk) 11:59, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
 * ✔️. — Coolperson177 (t&#124;c) 15:34, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

President Biden
The current text refers to 'President Biden' more than once. As per MoS & guidelines only the first mention should include president, with subsequent mentions being just Biden. Would someone change? Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C8:8E90:AE01:C842:7294:7468:20A4 (talk) 15:17, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
 * ✅. — Coolperson177 (t&#124;c) 15:24, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Date format
Given his nationality the use of MM/DD/YYYY is inappropriate and contravenes MoS. Would someone therefor change the dates to the appropriate and MoS conforming DD/MM/YYYY. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C8:8E90:AE01:C842:7294:7468:20A4 (talk) 15:14, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 2 August 2022 (3)
These introduction sentences are chronologically out of order.

After the September 11 attacks, the U.S. State Department offered a US$25 million reward for information or intelligence leading to Ayman al-Zawahiri's capture.[10][11] He was put under worldwide sanctions in 1999 by the UN's Al-Qaida Sanctions Committee as a member of Al-Qaeda.[12]

Could you switch their order? 49.198.51.54 (talk) 20:44, 2 August 2022 (UTC)


 * Pictogram voting comment.svg Note: I went a step further and put the whole lead in chronological order. This is just a straw man, revert if necessary. If we do keep this version it will need a bit of re-wording to improve the flow. GA-RT-22 (talk) 21:11, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 2 August 2022 (4)
Could the "Marriage and children" section be renamed to "Marriages and children"? He had at least four wives (several simultaneously), so the singular at least sounds weird, if not outright incorrect. 49.198.51.54 (talk) 20:48, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
 * ✅. — Coolperson177 (t&#124;c) 23:00, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Egyptian Islamic Jihad Merger
In 1998, al-Zawahiri formally merged the Egyptian Islamic Jihad into al-Qaeda. This seems to be wrong. All others are writing this happened in June 2001.

--Jo1971 (talk) 22:24, 2 August 2022 (UTC)


 * You are correct, and the source cited at the end of that paragraph does not mention the merger. So I have changed the date and added (somewhat arbitrarily) Bergen as a source. The section is now out of chronological order, and that should be fixed. GA-RT-22 (talk) 19:04, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

Haqqani's house
I can't find that it says Haqqani owned the house in either of the cited sources. Can someone verify that it says this? Maybe provide a quote?

... reportedly in a house owned by Sirajuddin Haqqani, a senior official in the Taliban government.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by GA-RT-22 (talk • contribs) 16:53, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

A theologian?
How can he be considered a theologian? what exactly has he achieved as an Alim? Do he passed any Islamic education? Who gave him Ijazah? Ruwaym (talk) 17:20, 3 August 2022 (UTC)


 * "Theologian" was added in this edit eleven years ago with no explanation and no source cited. I haven't read the whole article to see if it's supported, but the word "theologian" doesn't appear. It should be either supported or removed. GA-RT-22 (talk) 18:40, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

It's been added back in. I'm going to remove it. GA-RT-22 (talk) 14:31, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

I agree with you that he is not a theologian and that the reference is not enough to confirm the claim. I'll let the removal. 3skandar (talk) 15:55, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

Lead re-write
The lead still needs a re-write, and I'm going to restore the tag. The two examples I gave have been (almost) addressed. But it's still too short. And it still contains things that aren't in the article, like "Theologian" (see corresponding section on this talk page). It's so short I think the best thing would be to throw it away and write a new one. Hence the maintenance tag. GA-RT-22 (talk) 18:39, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I replaced the tag with 'lead too short'. Ultimately, if it inaccurately calls him a theologian, it's not a problem with the lead. I do agree the lead is pretty rough though. I took that out and just call him a "jihadist and terrorist" which is what he's known for. If you think this is wrong, stupid, or other, please let me know. Cheers! ‡ El cid, el campeador  talk  20:40, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
 * - thank you for your major improvements. ‡ El cid, el campeador  talk  14:50, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

The lead looks much better now, but it again has the problem that it doesn't actually summarize the article. For exmaple it says he co-founded al-Qaeda, but that doesn't appear anywhere in the article. It says he left Egypt in 1984 to fight in Afghanistan, and again that doesn't appear anywhere in the article that I can find. GA-RT-22 (talk) 14:59, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
 * The article itself is a mess that needs fixing.PrisonerB (talk) 15:11, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

Questionable sources being added
Why are you so eager to add two new sources to the Russia section? We already have perfectly good sources here. The two you are trying to add are both of questionable reliability. WP:RSP says, "The Spectator primarily consists of opinion pieces and these should be judged by WP:RSOPINION, WP:RSEDITORIAL, and WP:NEWSBLOG" and "There is no consensus on the reliability of Insider". The Insider source is an opinion piece and we shouldn't be using it at all without attributing it to its author.

We don't normally need additional sources unless there is some question as to the reliability of the sources already cited. I haven't checked, but do you have some reason to think the sources we already have are unreliable or that they don't support the material? If so, you should be questioning those sources, not piling new ones on top. GA-RT-22 (talk) 13:22, 4 August 2022 (UTC)


 * The previous/current sources are good and reliable. I just thought that for the one with a dead link (archived) some additional ones could back them up from potential deletions by editors that want to minimize that section of the article. The existing ones are good, but I would support attributing the authors of the more recently added articles if desired. The Spectator and Insider are mixed point of view/no consensus on the perennial sources board, and usable in certain contexts. The articles themselves are unusually thoroughly researched and cited articles for that type of publication. The Spectator article is short and is just relaying secondary sources without extra opinion. The Insider article has a long references list and multiple attributions. They are used only to back up the existing content and not change it. -- Rauisuchian (talk) 01:25, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

Ayman al-Zawahiri's role within al-Qaeda and was he the "brain" behind bin Laden?
''According to reports by a former al-Qaeda member, al-Zawahiri worked in the al-Qaeda organization since its inception and was a senior member of the group's shura council. He was often described as a "lieutenant" to Osama bin Laden, though bin Laden's chosen biographer has referred to him as the "real brains" of al-Qaeda.''

Two claims in this sentence which are highly contested. First, was Zawahiri member of al-Qaeda since its inception? Peter Bergen writes otherwise:

He was formally named as bin Laden's deputy only in 2004 (already in the article).

Second, was Zawahiri the "brain" behind bin Laden? This is a view mainly promoted by Lawrence Wright in his book The Looming Tower and in his article The Man Behind Bin Laden. Again, Peter Bergen disagres with this view. Sorry for the lengthy quote but I guess it's important for the portayal of Zawahiri. He summarizes his arguments from his bin Laden biografie in his op-ed Charisma-free al-Zawahiri was running al-Qaeda into the ground.

p. 92

Michael Scheuer disagrees, too, and calls it the The Riyadh Narrative.

Thomas Hegghammer also contests this view.

--Jo1971 (talk) 20:02, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

Definite article or not?
We use both "al-Zawahiri" and "Zawahiri". I think we should pick one and stick to it. I can't find any guidance in Manual of Style/Arabic so I don't know which is preferred. GA-RT-22 (talk) 01:07, 5 August 2022 (UTC)


 * Not a scientific method but from my informal survey it seems like most include Al- . This includes the featured article Hasan al-Kharrat and good article Khalil al-Wazir. So I vote inclusion. ‡ El cid, el campeador  talk  01:23, 5 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes, wherever the "al-" bit is part of the common name, it should normally not be dropped. Persianate versions of Arabic names often do drop the definite article (e.g. Omar Khayyam, Persian version of the originally Arabic name Umar al-Khayyam), but only if the Persianate version also is the common name (the article name) should this be done throughout. It may further be useful to know that "al-" is always written lower case (also in proper names), with the only exception being when it is the first word in a full sentence (one containing a subject and a verb). ☿ Apaugasma  ( talk  ☉) 01:56, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

Ok I made this change. It was more extensive than I expected. Please check my work. GA-RT-22 (talk) 02:13, 5 August 2022 (UTC)
 * My ctrl+f proofreading did not find any mistakes! Nice work. ‡ El cid, el campeador  talk  13:48, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 September 2022
Under the image of al-Zawahiri in 2001, his name is spelled incorrectly. Change "Zawahri" to "Zawahiri". Powwu (talk) 07:21, 23 September 2022 (UTC)
 * ✅. Aidan9382 (talk) 09:34, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

"Ayman al-Zawahiri (Arabic: أيمن الظواهري, romanized: ʾAyman al-Ẓawāhirī; 19 June 1951 – 31 July 2022) as an Egyptian-born militant"
Excellent English right there in the vet first phrase. 5.173.88.70 (talk) 09:39, 12 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Also, really, no mention of the word "terrorist" anywhere in the lead summary? 5.173.88.70 (talk) 09:41, 12 August 2023 (UTC)