Talk:Azerbaijani nationalism

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This article is very biased against Azeris173.79.107.98 (talk) 04:22, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

Farida Mammadova
The article says: "A key advocate of Azeri nationalism is Farida Mammadova" - this is an absurd claim. So every Azeri historian is automatic a nationalist? That is quite a racist mindset. I would like to see a source that supports this sentence. Neftchi (talk) 09:07, 10 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Another is that why is the headline called anti-Armenianism while it has barely anything to do with anti-Armenianism. The NK war was anti-Azerbaijan aswell as anti-Armenia, so its best to just leave both these phrases out because it was war. Neftchi (talk) 09:10, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

does another article exist?
Racism is not nationalism, even if Azeri racism might be claimed to be a display of nationalism by many Azeris. Is there not an article about anti-Armenian racism by Azerbaijanis that might more properly contain much of the content in this article? For example, I was looking for somewhere I might put this info "Argentine Football Club Rejects Azerbaijan Sponsorship Over Armenian Issue" Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 23:21, 25 August 2014 (UTC)  Blocked sock:Meowy.
 * One does exist: Anti-Armenianism in Azerbaijan Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 01:45, 26 August 2014 (UTC) Blocked sock:Meowy.

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Nagorno-Karabakh War
This whole subsection has more to do with Azerbaijani-Armenian bilateral relations than Azerbaijani nationalism. In fact the article has nothing to offer on Azerbaijani nationalism. One generally expects irredentist claims to feature and in this nation's case, it would likely be to large parts of neighbouring Iran to where Azerbaijanis are more populous. Unless something that this can be found then this article is without content. --Coldtrack (talk) 04:31, 16 August 2017 (UTC)

Some editing
I redid and expanded the lead as well as the "Territory" section. I also added two new sources which expand on the history of Azerbaijani nationalism. What needs to be done further:

1) The part about "Whole Azerbaijan" needs a source.

2) A history section needs to be added.

3) The section about Nagorno-Karabakh should be NPOVed and drastically shortened, as the conflict has its own article and is only partially relevant to Azerbaijani nationalism.

4) A section on contemporary developments and adherents would be useful.

Any help is greatly appreciated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by FinalSugar (talk • contribs) 01:45, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

The name "Azerbaijan"
Cherrypicking a primary source from the 19th-century and disregarding the cited WP:RS is disruptive. This is not disputed in scholarship;


 * "Let us conclude with an important point. The pre-1918 maps indicate various names of regions or states north of the river Araxes, such as “Albania” or “Arran”. No map knows of “Azerbaijan” north of the Araxes. This name was applied for centuries to the northern province of Iran, originally called Atropatene, around Tabriz, i.e. south of the Araxes. The Encyclopaedia of Islam published in 1913 leaves no room for doubt: “Nowadays, under ‘Adharbaydjan’ is understood the north-western province of Persia”. The name “Azerbaijan”, which the present-day republic adopted in 1918, is, therefore, a result of later socio-political developments.In the 1930s, this name was adopted by the Soviet authorities: it suited Stalin who considered expansion to Iran" - p. 42, Monuments and Identities in the Caucasus Karabagh, Nakhichevan and Azerbaijan in Contemporary Geopolitical Conflict, Brill


 * "The name Azarbaijan is a pre-Islamic Persian name for a pre-Islamic province south of the River Aras. “Azarbaijan” was not used in any definite or clear manner for the area north of the River Aras in the pre- modern period. In some instances, the name Azarbaijan was used in a manner that included the Aran region immediately to the north of the River Aras, but this was rather an exception. The adoption of this name for the area north of the River Aras was by the nationalist, Baku-based Mosavat government (1918–20) and was later retained by the Soviet Union." p. 16 - Behrooz, Maziar (2023). Iran at War: Interactions with the Modern World and the Struggle with Imperial Russia. I.B. Tauris


 * " In fact, in medieval times the name ‘Azerbaijan’ was applied not to the area of present independent Azerbaijan but to the lands to the south of the Araxes river, now part of Iran. The lands to the north west of the Araxes were known as Albania; the lands to the north east, the heart of present-day post-Soviet Azerbaijan, were known as Sharvan (or Shirwan) and Derbend." p. 30, Fowkes, B. (2002). Ethnicity and Ethnic Conflict in the Post-Communist World. Springer.


 * "The adoption of the name “Azerbaijan” in 1918 by the Mussavatist government for classical Caucasian Albania (Arrān and Sharvān) was due to political reasons28. For example, the giant orientalist of the early 20th century, Vasily Barthold has stated: “… whenever it is necessary to choose a name that will encompass all regions of the republic of Azerbaijan, the name Arrān can be chosen. But the term Azerbaijan was chosen because when the Azerbaijan republic was created, it was assumed that this and the Persian Azerbaijan will be one entity, because the population of both has a big similarity. On this basis, the word Azerbaijan was chosen. Of course right now when the word Azerbaijan is used, it has two meanings as Persian Azerbaijan and as a republic, it’s confusing and a question rises as to which Azerbaijan is being talked about”. In the post-Islamic sense, Arrān and Sharvān are often distinguished while in the pre-Islamic era, Arrān or the Western Caucasian Albania roughly corresponds to the modern territory of republic of Azerbaijan. In the Soviet era, in a breathtaking manipulation, historical Azerbaijan (NW Iran) was reinterpreted as “South Azerbaijan” in order for the Soviets to lay territorial claim on historical Azerbaijan proper which is located in modern Northwestern Iran". p. 10, Lornejad, Siavash; Doostzadeh, Ali (2012). Arakelova, Victoria; Asatrian, Garnik (eds.). On the modern politicization of the Persian poet Nezami Ganjavi (PDF). Caucasian Centre for Iranian Studies.


 * "The case of Azerbaijan is interesting in several aspects. The geographical name “Azerbaijan” for the territory where the Republic of Azerbaijan is now situated, as well as the ethnic name for the Caucasian Turks, “Azerbaijani,” were coined in the beginning of the 10th century. The name Azerbaijan, which implies the lands located north of the Aras River, is a duplicate of the historical region of Azerbaijan (it is the arabized version of the name of a historical region of Atropatena) which is the north-western region of Iran. After the proclamation of the first Republic of Azerbaijan in 1918, the Turkish army invaded the Caucasus, and the name “Azerbaijan” was offered by a young Turkish regime to the Turkish-speaking territory" p. 253, After the Soviet Empire. Leiden, The Netherlands: Brill, 05 Oct. 2015.


 * "The Ottoman Turks coveted Iran’s province of Azerbaijan. Therefore following the Bolshevik revolution, in 1918 installed a pro-Turkish government in Baku and named it after the Iranian province of Azerbaijan" - p. xvii, The New Geopolitics of the South Caucasus: Prospects for Regional Cooperation and Conflict Resolution (Contemporary Central Asia: Societies, Politics, and Cultures), Lexington Books, Shireen Hunter


 * "Until 1918, when the Musavat regime decided to name the newly independent state Azerbaijan, this designation had been used exclusively to identify the Iranian province of Azerbaijan." - p. 60, Dekmejian, R. Hrair; Simonian, Hovann H. (2003). Troubled Waters: The Geopolitics of the Caspian Region. I.B. Tauris.


 * "The region to the north of the river Araxes was not called Azerbaijan prior to 1918, unlike the region in northwestern Iran that has been called since so long ago." p. 356, Rezvani, Babak (2014). Ethno-territorial conflict and coexistence in the caucasus, Central Asia and Fereydan: academisch proefschrift. Amsterdam: Amsterdam University Press


 * "The name Azerbaijan was also adopted for Arrān, historically an Iranian region, by anti-Russian separatist forces of the area when, on 26 May 1918, they declared its independence and called it the Democratic Republic of Azerbaijan. To allay Iranian concerns, the Azerbaijan government used the term “Caucasian Azerbaijan” in the documents for circulation abroad." - Multiple Authors, Encyclopaedia Iranica


 * "Originally the term Azerbaijan was the name of the Iranian historical province Adarbaigan, or Azarbaijan (from older Aturpatakan) in the north-west of the country. This term, as well as its respective derivative, Azari (or, in Turkish manner, Azeri), as “ethnonym”, was not applied to the territory north of Arax (i.e. the area of the present-day Azerbaijan Republic, former Arran and Shirvan) and its inhabitants up until the establishment of the Musavat regime in that territory (1918-1920)." - p. 85, note 1, Morozova, I. (2005). Contemporary Azerbaijani Historiography on the Problem of "Southern Azerbaijan" after World War II, Iran and the Caucasus, 9(1)

HistoryofIran (talk) 18:08, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
 * ''"Until the late 19th and early 20th century it would be unthinkable to refer to the Muslim inhabitants of the Caucasus as Azaris (Azeris) or Azerbaijanis, since the people and the geographical region that bore these names were located to the south of the Araxes River. Therefore, the Iranian intelligentsia raised eyebrows once the independent Republic of Azerbaijan was declared in 1918 just across the Iranian border. - pp. 176-177, Avetikian, Gevorg. "Pān-torkism va Irān [Pan-Turkism and Iran]", Iran and the Caucasus 14, 1 (2010), Brill


 * It is found out that all those sources are Potentially unreliable.
 * The term of Azerbaijan was used long before 1918 by those who actually lived and travelled to the area long before 1918.
 * https://www.jstor.org/stable/1799149 Aruturo Van Kaigan (talk) 06:25, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Quote:
 * The country known to the Persians as Azerbaijan is divided between them and Russia, the latter Power possessing about five-eighths of the whole, which may be roughly stated to cover an area of about 80,000 square miles, or about the size of Great Britain ; 50,000 square miles are therefore about the extent of the division belonging to Russia, and 30,000 of that which remains to Persia. The Russian division is bounded on the north and north-east by the mountains of Caucasus, extending to the vicinity of Bakou on the Caspian. On the west it has the provinces of Imeritia, Mingrelia, Gooriel, and Ahkhiska (now belonging to Russia) ; on the east it has the Caspian Sea, and on the south the boundary is marked by the course of the River Arrass (Araxes) to near the 46th parallel of longitude, thence by a conventional line across the plains of Moghan to the district of Talish, and by the small stream of Astura which flows to the Caspian through the latter country. In this area are contained the following territorial divisions : — Georgia or Goorjistan, comprising Kakhetty, Kartaliny, Somekhetty, Kasakh ; the Mohammedan countries of Eriwan, Nakhshewan, Karabagh, Ghenja, Shir wan, Shekky, Shamachy, Bakou, Koobeh, Salian and a portion of Talish. Aruturo Van Kaigan (talk) 06:47, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

The toponym of Azerbaijan North of Aras (long) before 1918
According to what Wikipedia rule am or anyone else deprived of adding and refering to primary sources?

Keith E. Abbott , Vol. 8, No. 6 (1863 - 1864), pp. 275-279 (5 pages)

https://www.jstor.org/stable/1799149 Aruturo Van Kaigan (talk) 06:25, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Vandalism
On Wikipedia, vandalism has a very specific meaning: editing (or other behavior) deliberately intended to obstruct or defeat the project's purpose, which is to create a free encyclopedia, in a variety of languages, presenting the sum of all human knowledge. '''The malicious removal of encyclopedic content, or the changing of such content beyond all recognition, without any regard to our core content policies of neutral point of view (which does not mean no point of view), verifiability and no original research, is a deliberate attempt to damage Wikipedia.' There are, of course, more juvenile forms of vandalism, such as adding irrelevant obscenities or crude humor to a page, illegitimately blanking pages, and inserting obvious nonsense into a page. Abusive creation or usage of user accounts and IP addresses may also constitute vandalism.'''

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Vandalism Aruturo Van Kaigan (talk) 06:33, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

Identity formation
If the nationalist movement started in the 19th century, how could the identityu formation start only during the SOviet Era? Aruturo Van Kaigan (talk) 07:23, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

Azerbaijani Nationalism in the Russian Empire.
Azerbaijan's pioneer nationalist parties(such as Difai) should be discussed. Aruturo Van Kaigan (talk) 07:28, 7 January 2024 (UTC)