Talk:Azusa Pacific University/Archive 1

Lead
The first line of the article has a different year than the diagram on the right for when the college was founded....when is the real one? NPPyzixBlan 17:58, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
 * most likely 1899 was supposed to be 1989, meaning classes opened 1990, but the right bar says it was founded in 1964, so that is totally incongrutious. AdamJacobMuller 12:20, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

I actually go to APU and it was founded in 1899. It seems like the problem has been fixed on the page.

Article tone
The article, as of July 3, 2007, reads like it has been cut & pasted from the school's website. It needs a more NPOV and some sections rewritten

What about the article in particular would you like to see changed? I have read several other university wikipedia articles, (Harvard, Oxford, Berkeley, Biola [APU's rival], etc.) and it seems to be similar in content. if you have any evidence that the article was plagiarized please provide it, but do not use the weaselly-worded "reads like it has" been plagiarized accusation. If there is no evidence provided to keep it listed as "like an advertisement" and if there is no specific cause raised for the claim of lack of neutrality, I will remove those tags. 71.202.41.168 03:57, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Since no specific claims were made, i am removing the tags mentioned above 71.202.41.168 21:57, 28 August 2007 (UTC)


 * the section regarding "student life" reads as if it were copied from promotional literature, such as brochures or the school website. 71.119.56.205 (talk) 09:43, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Capitalization
The adjective "evangelical" should not be capitalized. It is a descriptor, rather than indicative of any particular group. It is not a proper noun. For example, check the Evangelicalism page, and notice that it is only capitalized at the beginning of sentences. Furthermore, the same holds true for the term "non-denominational." This is why these copy-editing errors have been reverted TWICE. (cf. the article: non denominational). If any means to substantiate or validate such revisions can be provided, then this issue may be disputed is a valid way; otherwise, please refrain from making incorrect revisions. Thanks. 71.119.56.205 (talk) 19:46, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

". . . the second largest evangelical undergraduate student body in the United States, behind only Liberty University"
Seems to be a statement which depends on a meandering definition. For example, Harding University now has 7155 students. Baylor is at 15029. Rammer (talk) 06:45, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 1 one external link on Azusa Pacific University. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20141031032551/http://www.apu.edu/researchandgrants/pdfs/archive/2008/september_2008.pdf to http://www.apu.edu/researchandgrants/pdfs/archive/2008/september_2008.pdf
 * Added tag to http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/college_guide/rankings-2014/national-universities-rank-all.php

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External links modified
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I have just modified 4 one external links on Azusa Pacific University. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110716112345/http://www.apu.edu/media/release/art/12974/ to http://www.apu.edu/media/release/art/12974/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070831104709/http://www.apu.edu:80/library/information/collections/ to http://www.apu.edu/library/information/collections/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080820034504/http://www.apu.edu/olympians/ to http://www.apu.edu/olympians/
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.sacbee.com/118/story/480137.html

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Formating
Someone who really formats well needs to get the column of university presidents away from the right-hand side of the page with the next section's data. 2600:1004:B146:B1A8:D926:4A5B:DBA:9480 (talk) 04:05, 26 February 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140828025627/http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/college_guide/rankings-2014/national-universities-rank-all.php to http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/college_guide/rankings-2014/national-universities-rank-all.php
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.apu.edu/library/information/collections/

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Recent edits
An enthusiastic new editor has made some extensive edits to this article. Many of them are very helpful but a handful introduced some minor issues. In particular, references were added to the titles of a few sections and the lead of the article was rewritten in a way that was not in line with our neutral point of view policy. I have changed those section titles and rewritten the lead so it's neutral. I invite our new colleague to discuss these edits especially if he or she has objections to or questions about my edits. ElKevbo (talk) 19:37, 9 August 2017 (UTC)


 * Hi there,ElKevbo. I am that enthusiastic new editor. Your changes, I think, are very instructive and helpful. I had intended to later add a "University values" section delineating items such as the university's "four cornerstones." Do you think that would violate the neutral point of view policy on grounds of being a beliefs statement? Thanks. EvanRCain (talk) 22:33, 9 August 2017 (UTC) EvanRCain


 * I don't think that adding the university's "values" would violate NPOV. But I don't know if it would really add anything very interesting or useful for readers.  I think that WP:MISSION and WP:UNIGUIDE may provide you with some related guidance. ElKevbo (talk) 02:07, 10 August 2017 (UTC)

Accreditation note
I see in the list of "Accreditations" that the cult is not actually accredited with any legitimate College or University, they're all "listing" companies which don't afford actual, legitimate accreditation. Shouldn't that be mentioned? Azusa Pacific is a Christian cult, it's not a valid school as such, it's equal to Bob Jones University and that ilk, complete with the usual fraudulent fake accreditations. Shouldn't that be mentioned here? Damotclese (talk) 23:21, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
 * The institution is accredited. ElKevbo (talk) 03:06, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

History
The aforementioned "enthusiastic new editor" also deleted a fair amount of impressive research into the university's history and religious underpinnings (including its elusive Quaker origins). What did he/she replace it with? The advertorial copy from APU's website. Going to try to reconcile the versions soon, assuming there are no objections. 74.192.141.222 (talk) 04:14, 11 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Beat you to it! Edits welcome. 72.182.102.68 (talk) 23:45, 24 January 2018 (UTC)

Hi there. Enthusiastic editor here. My concern with that section is that much of its phrasing seems to be missing in the citations. "Evangelical identity" and the term "liberal" appear nowhere in the sources that I can find. It also seems to me that this section is being continually added by someone wanting denominational recognition. Could be wrong. Made initial edits but reversed them after seeing that a conversation had already begin and I don't wish for an edit war. Thoughts? --EvanRCain (talk) 20:43, 1 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Denominational recognition would be strange considering the additional info makes reference to multiple theological movements, as well as a now-defunct denomination. Thanks for reversing your edits for now -- I would think parceling out the religious aspects would be a fair compromise so long as everything is properly sourced. Here is some further backup for claims that the school has developed an Evangelical (specifically in the Wesleyan-Holiness camp) identity: https://www.apu.edu/about/evangelical As for a gradual rejection of growing liberalism (or Modernism) in the early years of the college, see pg. 2 here: https://web.archive.org/web/20141031032551/https://www.apu.edu/researchandgrants/pdfs/archive/2008/september_2008.pdf 74.192.141.222 (talk) 05:43, 3 February 2018 (UTC)

Recent LGBTQ+ Controversy
There was a recent controversy regarding the school's stance on "romanticized same-sex relationships" and how it was quickly rectified within a week after a massive backlash by the students and Board of Directors. This should be added. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.211.7.218 (talk) 09:12, 18 October 2018 (UTC)

Advertisement Tone
Just wanted to point out how much of this article is taken up with information that sounds like it was taken from an advertisement; in particular, statistics in the article trumpeting diversity and economic impact do not come across as neutral. These do not belong in the article, and should at the very least be changed in their tone. Philistene94 (talk) 00:34, 30 June 2019 (UTC)Philistene94

Edit warring to add unnecessary info in lead
One or more unregistered editors are edit warring to add information in the lead that is:

1. Unnecessary. Much of it focuses on rankings that simply are not necessary to include in the lead and tell readers very little about the university. 2. POV. It includes phrases such as "A leader in the Council for Christian Colleges & Universities, APU is committed to excellence in higher education." 3. Duplicative. This includes information such as "Offering more than 100 bachelor’s, master’s, and doctoral programs on campus, online, and at six regional locations across" which is identical to what is included in the first paragraph of the article except that the first paragraph says that there are seven regional locations. (That this text is identical also makes this suspicious.) 4. Poorly written. It includes material such as "173th" and "With an undergraduate enrollment of 6,543 and a total enrollment of 10,755, its setting is suburban, and the campus size is 103 acres."

For all of these reasons and more, I will continue to delete this text because I cannot believe that a serious editor would want to include this information in an article especially without any attempt at discussion or improvement of the obvious flaws pointed out above. ElKevbo (talk) 03:10, 30 October 2018 (UTC)


 * I also note that this editor(s) is now edit warring to add outdated/incorrect information to the lead; the information is accompanied by a source and the editor(s) apparently is not even bothering to read the source to see that the information is wrong. ElKevbo (talk) 13:12, 31 October 2018 (UTC)

Suggested Edits
Hello! I am a student at Azusa Pacific University interested in contributing to this article. I apologize for my possibly over-enthusiastic editing at first -- I wasn't completely aware of Wikipedia “conflict of interest” policies. Having declared my conflict of interest though, I hope it's ok if I make suggestions on the talk page, which could then go into the main article pending review by other (independent) contributors. For starters, I’ve found several outside resources that can increase reliability of the page and reduce links to the university’s website.

- The last paragraph in the history section, discussing economic impact, uses wording that could be considered biased: “increasing the state’s productivity and earning power.” I suggest this be taken out. In addition, as the economic impact report is an outside, unbiased study, it should be linked to the PDF of the study which can be downloaded here, not the university’s website.

- APU’s classification as a Doctoral/Research University (as mentioned at the start of the Research section) can be linked to the Carnegie classification institution lookup directly.

- When listing notable athletes in the Athletics section, the citation is linked to an unrelated page on APU’s website. Instead, I located individual outside sources that can be linked for each athlete: Bryan Clay, Christian Okaye, Stephen Vogt, Kirk Nieuwenhuis, Terrell Watson.

173.51.217.46 (talk) 20:52, 8 July 2019 (UTC)

Whoops, I forgot to login before posting. The above note is from me! AbigailReed (talk) 16:41, 9 July 2019 (UTC)