Talk:BIPAC

BIPAC Involvement in Alabama
UPDATE: As clearly identified by the Alabama Secretary of State website, the references in the below section apply to a different organization called "BI PAC" not "BIPAC". BI PAC is based in Alabama and is not affiliated with BIPAC, based in D.C.
 * linked to indicted lobbyist
 * This is a different organization based in Alabama called BIPAC Open Secrets Data has a nice layout of all of Business Industry PAC's spending in campaigns and Terri Collins isn't listed. Bob Geddie is not and has never been treasurer of this BIPAC. BIPAC's PAC only spends money in Congressional races, NOT the Alabama 8th House seat which is a state legislative race.Yudanashi (talk) 16:35, 25 October 2010 (UTC)


 * again linked to the indicted Robert Geddie: "BIPAC - One of several PACs run by lobbyists Joe Fine and Bob Geddie. It received money from Colonial Bancgroup, Alfa, Vulcan Materials and other sources." The same article lists a number of other PACs run by Fine and Geddie: CANPAC, EDPAC, FGAPAC, IMPAC, MAXPAC, and SAVE PAC, none of which currently have Wikipedia articles of their own.
 * 3 Fine-Geddie PACs one of them BI PAC (sic. in the article) combined to make 4 separate donations of $5000 each to a legislator on June 21, 2010.
 * *Note that it is BI PAC not BIPAC. It is not sic in the article, but a differentiation from BIPAC (Business Industries PAC)Yudanashi (talk) 16:52, 25 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Geddie's indictment, which talks about PACs he controls without naming any of them. It describes in detail how lobbyists including Geddie promised large campaign donations to candidates in return for pro-gambling votes, and backed up those promises by handing over large campaign contributions as a number of separate checks drawn on different PACs; the money for those donations came from a few very large donors who got the lobbyists' help to funnel their money through a large number of PACs. According to the indictment, Geddie ordered an employee to alter one PAC's books to change the name of the donor from the person who actually gave lots of money to the name of someone else, who did not know his name was being used. Of course, that group may not have been BIPAC. betsythedevine (talk) 13:21, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

How notable is this group?
I tried to find some evidence of independent third-party interest in this group but found very little.


 * CorpWatch mentions it: "Another energy-backed group is the Business Industry Political Action Committee (BIPAC), which receives funding from the American Petroleum Institute, ExxonMobil, and other oil, mining, and gas interests. BIPAC is expected to spend $6 million this year, and aims primarily to influence how the employees of its 400 member companies vote."
 * SourceWatch has a brief article but with no news mentions since 2004.

My feeling is that having a lengthy article here about the group's "history" based on its own statements about itself gives it a lot more apparent "notability" than is appropriate. betsythedevine (talk) 01:27, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Notability
Here are listings of articles from 2008 that discuss or quote BIPAC. These articles, along with others not listed here, establish notability under WP:SPIP which states, "The barometer of notability is whether people independent of the topic itself (or of its manufacturer, creator, author, inventor, or vendor) have actually considered the topic notable enough that they have written and published non-trivial works of their own that focus upon it – without incentive, promotion, or other influence by people connected to the topic matter." The articles below establish that BIPAC is notable enough to have non-trivial works published about it.

Yudanashi (talk) 18:42, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Archived version, excuse the poor formatiing
 * National Journal article about BIPAC in the '06 races
 * 2008 article quoting BIPAC
 * 2008 Kiplinger article that compares BIPAC with the US Chamber of Commerce
 * 2008 WSJ article quoting BIPAC discussing the building of coalitions
 * 2008 USA Today article quoting BIPAC
 * 2009 National Journal article referencing BIPAC's growth
 * Bloomberg article discussing BIPAC's bipartisan nature.

Neutral POV
This article has been substantially rewritten to avoid sounding like an advertisement. If any part remains that still looks like an advertisement instead of a encyclopedic, please comment on it here: Yudanashi (talk) 18:48, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

The text of the deleted article changed substantially and I feel that this represents a much more encyclopedic feel than the previous version cached below.Yudanashi (talk) 21:34, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Conflict of Interest
I propose we remove the COI tag on this page because, while written by conflicted author, the statements and reference links all come from non-BIPAC materials. The only link that doesn't is the BIPAC endorsed candidate list which is a consolidated list of all candidate that BIPAC's PAC, The Action Fund, has dispersed.

CACHED VERSION
BIPAC (Business Industry Political Action Committee) was founded in 1963 as the first Business oriented political action committee (PAC).[1]  Since then it has grown into more than just a PAC and is now a preeminent force in making the political and policy process more effective by providing a one-stop, full-service, political information and grassroots activities resource for advancing the public policy aims of American business.[2] Contents [hide]

* 1 History o 1.1 Early Years o 1.2 1980's         o 1.3 1990's          o 1.4 2000's - Present * 2 See also * 3 References * 4 External links

[edit] History

The Business Industry Political Action Committee (BIPAC) was founded on August 5, 1963 as an independent, bipartisan group to serve as a political action arm for American business and industry and to encourage greater business participation in congressional elections. It was the first business political action committee. In 1964, it opened its headquarters in New York City with its first chairman, Kenton R. Cravens of the Mercantile Trust Company, St. Louis Missouri. Robert L. Humphrey, who was instrumental in putting the BIPAC concept together while at the National Association of Manufacturers, was chosen to lead BIPAC as its first president in 1964.[3] The first candidate to receive a BIPAC check was Mark Andrews, a candidate for the House of Representatives who was elected and went on to serve in the U.S. Senate. United States

In the 1970s, BIPAC gained plenty of companies after the official authorization of corporate PACs by the Federal Election Commission (FEC) in its Sun Oil Company decision of 1975.[4] BIPAC had earlier moved its offices from New York City to Washington, D.C. to be at the seat of political power. Bernadette Budde, now one of the most respected political analysts in American politics, began her long career at BIPAC in 1970.[5] [edit] 1980's

As the popularity of corporate PACs grew, BIPAC expanded its services to help broaden the base of politically effective American businesses. In the 1980s, a monthly report on politics and political races, known today as 'Election Insights', and a now-popular series of Washington Briefings became available to BIPAC supporters. Formal briefings across the country expanded the organization’s visibility. [edit] 1990's

The 1990s were a time of tremendous growth for BIPAC. Revitalized and financially strengthened, the organization assumed its role as full partner with its corporate and association supporters in moving the public policy agenda. With business leaders like Owsley Frazier of Brown-Forman, Earle Williams of BDM, Don Meiners of Entergy and Stephen Frank of Southern California Edison at its helm, BIPAC elevated its scope and quality of service. It stepped into the technology era with the launch of its website and its unprecedented, race-by-race candidate database. [edit] 2000's - Present

Competitive elections, the rise of independents, and the rapid change within legislatures convinced BIPAC that victory on issues required new strategies and tactics. Project 2000 (now known as the Prosperity Project) was born of discussions among major corporations and trade associations. It represented an unprecedented effort to unify the business community around common policy goals and serve as its political operations team.

The Prosperity Project provides a focus for the development of an integrated national issue advocacy strategy for American business. Several years before campaign finance reform became reality, BIPAC began to lead the business community out of the era of huge “soft money” donations and into a new way of doing political business – working at the grassroots to marshal the vast army of American workers in support of the people and policies that advance their jobs, their investments, and their industries. By election 2008, half of the Fortune 50 were engaged in the Prosperity Project.[6]

One of the many PACs run by Alabama lobbyists Joe Fine and Robert Geddie Jr.
Since this information was removed from the article, I decided to check it out at the website of Alabama's Secretary of State, doing a search for PACs whose treasurer has the last name Geddie. I found 11 of them including BI PAC (sic.), all with the same PO box in Montgomery, AL.

You requested a search utilizing the following criteria: Last name of the Chair / Treasurer is: Geddie; Found 11 political committee(s).
 * BI PAC; Fine, Joe, Chair; Geddie, Robert B., Treasurer; Organization Date: 12/28/1989
 * CAN PAC; Geddie, Robert B., Chair; Fine, Joe, Treasurer; Organization Date: 12/28/1989
 * ED PAC; Fine, Joe, Chair; Geddie, Robert B., Treasurer; Organization Date: 4/10/1990
 * FAX PAC; Fine, Joe, Chair; Geddie, Robert B., Treasurer; Organization Date: 12/28/1989
 * FGA PAC; Fine, Joe, Chair; Geddie, Robert B, Treasurer; Organization Date: 10/4/1989
 * IM PAC; Geddie, Robert B., Chair; Fine, Joe, Treasurer; Organization Date: 10/4/1989
 * LEG PAC; Geddie, Robert B., Chair; Fine, Joe, Treasurer; Organization Date: 12/28/1989
 * MAX PAC; Fine, Joe, Chair; Geddie, Robert B., Treasurer; Organization Date: 12/28/1989
 * NEW PAC; Fine, Joe, Chair; Geddie, Robert B., Treasurer; Organization Date: 12/28/1989
 * Save PAC; Geddie, Robert B., Chair; Fine, Joe, Treasurer; Organization Date: 12/28/1989
 * TEL PAC; Geddie, Robert B., Chair; Fine, Joe, Treasurer; Organization Date: 3/20/1991

It seems to me that the statement based on CorpWatch that "It is one of the many PACs run by Alabama lobbyists Joe Fine and Robert Geddie Jr." is accurate, relevant, and should not have been removed even though it was removed. betsythedevine (talk) 19:43, 25 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Betsy, You keep citing it as "BI PAC (sic)" when the Alabama Secretary of State documents do not have the typo, CorpWatch does. Look at the organization date in the above list. BI PAC was incorporated in Alabama in December 1989, the organization BIPAC was incorporated in August 1963. The two are NOT related.
 * For your quote you have CorpWatch listed which is incorrect. The article is linked on |SourceWatch, but the quote you have above is NOT found anywhere, least of all CorpWatch or SourceWatch. Yudanashi (talk) 20:11, 25 October 2010 (UTC)


 * The list above was copied and pasted from the Alabama SOS website. I have seen the Alabama group listed with both spellings. So the "BIPAC" you are trying to create an article about is a Washington-based group with lots less news mention and lots fewer Google results than an Alabama lobbying group with the same name, if I understand you correctly. betsythedevine (talk) 20:49, 25 October 2010 (UTC)


 * The BIPAC I have created is a Washington-based group, not the Alabama group that is correct. As for news articles and fewer Google results The top 9 results on Google are about BIPAC and NOT about the Alabama Group BI PAC. As for News results, the Alabama group is currently in scandal and has 1 article about them ranked currently at #7 in Google news search. and BIPAC has stories in positions 3,4,5,6 with 1&2 talking about a wireless router. As for BIPAC's notability, please see the above section NotabilityYudanashi (talk) 21:47, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Nonpartisan
For our collaboration on this article —Preceding unsigned comment added by Yudanashi (talk • contribs) 21:16, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

About BIPAC
How does using the Mother Jones quote sound for a neutral take on the opening lines of the article? "For much of the past decade, the Business Industry Political Action Committee has been a powerful force in helping tilt elections for corporate-friendly candidates. The blue-ribbon business group, made up of more than 400 companies and trade associations ... maintains the "Prosperity Project," which includes a state-of-the-art database to track candidates' stands on issues from regulation to taxes to health care."Yudanashi (talk) 21:19, 26 October 2010 (UTC)