Talk:BMW 3 Series

Untitled
Will need an update from E46 to E90 models now that BMW has announced specifications of the four-door sedan. Stombs 23:38, Dec 18, 2004 (UTC)

More information
...is available at the link I've just added. I used Fred Brossaud's PDF for building a good deal of the BMW Z1 page, and although the 325i PDF seems to be a bit smaller, I'm sure you'll find lots of obscure facts and production information. --Milkmandan 05:46, 2005 Jan 4 (UTC)

Too much US-centric
I'll start adding more euro-centric related information, especially regarding available versions, and changing the wording of the text so it focuses more on European aspects of the car. --Pc13 17:22, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The association with 'yuppies' and its status as a prestigious range of cars is pretty much exclusive to the US. Throughout most of western europe it's just another small-saloon, albeit with a reputation for high build quality. 81.179.127.7 19:30, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

How to divide info between Series pages and E pages?
Sfoskett and I are wondering how best to split information between the "series" BMW pages (BMW 3 Series, BMW 5 Series etc.) and the E number pages which describe individual generations (e.g. BMW E30, BMW E90). We seem to agree that the term "BMW 3 Series" in Wikipedia should not be seen to give undue prominence to cars that happen to be currently in production, just as the current models of Porsche 911 or Range Rover pages should not dominate their pages. I feel we can make a useful distinction between the "phenomenon" of the 3 Series (etc.), which would talk about a) the place in the market the car tries to cover and the common variations (cabrio, coupé, sporty versions, racing versions) that have been features since 1975, and b) the technical specifics of each generation (model range, length, width, weight, suspension, engines used, photo, etc.). --Hotlorp 18:18, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * Because there are so darn many BMW variations (engines, models, markets) and because each series seems to overlap so much, I would be in favor of moving all technical information (engines, sizes, markets) to the E pages and leaving only general prose ("The E39 generation...") in the Series pages. --SFoskett 21:21, Apr 3, 2005 (UTC)

Grammatical Mechanics
"Consequently, BMW decided to leave well enough alone: while larger BMWs followed a more avant-garde Bangle style, the latest E90 is not a radical departure from the current model." Can someone think of a better way to phrase this? Removed from the article.

Missing Models
I know that there is also a 320Cd, and I'm sure there are other engine size diesel coupes in the E46 range, but none are mentioned in the model lists. i don't have the infomation on them to add them as entries, but either someone should add these models, or an incomplete list disclaimer needs to be added. Davepealing 10:14, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Pictures
There's like 4 pictures of the E90 sedan, but no picture of the E90 coupes or sport wagon

About "Awards"
Top Gear hasn't voted for the E90 as the ulgiest car, in fact in their page you find:

"BMW's compact exec is the must-drive for every management exec and corporate monkey. Got a nice end-of-year bonus? Buy a 3-series. It's the no-brain choice for the social climber.

Which should, by definition, make it a hateful status symbol. The only problem is that it's bloody good. The 3-series is practical and bullet-proof, but more importantly it's still fantastic to drive. "

Here's the link: http://www.topgear.com/drives/A4/E2/new/

And the article about ugliest cars:

http://www.topgear.com/content/news/stories/170/

I'm really disappointed about people misguiding others with the information given. It shows the jealousy of some for this car. Personally I think the E90 is superb aesthetically, tougher if you may. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 205.211.203.200 (talk) 02:56, 28 January 2007 (UTC).
 * That article is horribly outdated. Top Gear awarded the BMW 3 Series the Ugliest Car Of The Year award in its 2005 awards special (beating out the Ssangyong Kyron, the Ssangyong Rodius and the Ssangyong Musso). Kinitawowi 23:42, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

My bad, just researched the information regarding that espisode of Top Gear. Anyhow, please note that in episode 4 season 6 of that same show, the 3 series was hailed as "the most important new car of the year". And the review of the car stated in general lines "a great machine with superb handling".

External Link
Hi-- I have currently made a new exotic car site here. I was wanting to add the relevant pages to relevant wiki pages and wondering if that's ok to do so? Please let me know. Thanks. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Richard300187 (talk • contribs).


 * As long as it conforms to all criteria of WP:EL. At this time, I don't see it doing that simply because it doesn't really bring any unique information that the article doesn't already provide. What you could do, though, (and really what everyone should do) is provide the linking to this article through dmoz. Dmoz functionality has been set up with this article and all external links should go through it at this point. I would highly suggest reading up on dmoz. Roguegeek (talk) 18:31, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Quick Facts
I think this section is redundant. It simply restates info from the short paragraph directly above. If no one has any objections I will remove them tomorrow. --Daniel J. Leivick 05:51, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Objection. A lot of information is confusing to new people who don't spend their life looking up long words in dictionaries. It is easy & quick to just give people some non-confusing facts.
 * What "long words" specifically are the problem? The intro para. is easy to read if you ask me, and if there is a particular part that is confusing it should be fixed.  The quick facts section just rehashes the lead in list form, it isn't any easier to understand. --Daniel J. Leivick 17:30, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Why is the Quick Facts back? Not only is this redundant, it is inaccurate.Qwazywabbit 16:40, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
 * They are back because User:Wjs13 (creator of the BMW Mercedes Benz project) and his anon IPs continue to revert their removal despite multiple editors complaints. --Daniel J. Leivick 20:06, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

history and marketing expansion.
needed to "fill in" gaps on history and social relevance the 3 series has. Mostly U.S. centric. This still needs a Euro perspective to complete. I am working to incorporate the import history of the model to the U.S. beginning in 1968 with Max Hoffmann.(Qwazywabbit 20:59, 26 July 2007 (UTC))

The "History" section is dangerously close to the script from BMW's own film. --Bud 09:44, 29 August 2007 (UTC)


 * What film, so I can check it out for myself. Qwazy wabbit Msg me 20:32, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

E36 325 TDS
This model isn't listed, sold alongside the 325TD, the TDS has 143 BHP. More info here http://www.topcarguide.com/index.php?token=rWjeYx3Xfv3BlP%2FCmRiYI8gZfGJ0AQpPNSbRO2V%3D —Preceding unsigned comment added by Assimilator1 (talk • contribs) 10:48, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

SI units
All measurements on the page should be in SI units first and any other units second. This isn't an American car so why are the units all in American specific units first?(86.31.177.8 (talk) 02:46, 9 November 2008 (UTC))

SMG Transmission
I noticed the SMG was referred to as an automatic transmission. This is grossly inaccurate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.64.149.46 (talk) 22:45, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
 * This has been corrected. Tatrakrad (talk) 00:18, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

BMW 328XI
328XI Performance' BMW 328XI Exterior'
 * 2,996 cc 3 liters in-line 6 front engine with 85 mm bore, 88 mm stroke, 10.7 compression ratio, double overhead cam, variable valve timing/camshaft and four valves per cylinder
 * Premium unleaded fuel 91
 * Fuel economy EPA highway #mpg#: 28 and EPA city #mpg#: 19
 * Multi-point injection fuel system
 * 16.1 gallon main premium unleaded fuel tank
 * Power: 172 kW, 230 HP SAE @ 6,500 rpm; 200 ft lb , 271 Nm @ 2,750 rpm
 * Body side molding
 * Body color front and rear bumpers
 * Chrome/bright trim around side windows
 * Day time running lights
 * Driver and passenger power heated body color door mirrors
 * External dimensions: overall length #inches#: 178.2, overall width #inches#: 71.5, overall height #inches#: 57.3, wheelbase #inches#: 108.7, front track #inches#: 59.1 and rear track #inches#: 59.6
 * Front fog lights
 * Complex surface lens halogen bulb headlights
 * Heat reflective glass
 * Luxury trim leather on gearknob, wood/woodgrain on doors and wood/woodgrain on dashboard
 * Black paint
 * Rear window with defogger and intermittent
 * Roof rails
 * Roof spoiler
 * Glass electric front sunroof
 * Tinted glass on cabin
 * Weights: curb weight #lbs# 3,770
 * Windshield wipers with automatic intermittent wipe and rain sensor

BMW X3
BMW X3 Performance & Efficiency Standard Features BMW X3 Handling, Ride & Braking Standard Features BMW X3 Exterior & Aerodynamics Standard Features 
 * 2,996 cc 3 liters in-line 6 front engine with 85.1 mm bore, 97.9 mm stroke, 10.7 compression ratio, double overhead cam, variable valve timing/camshaft and four valves per cylinder
 * Premium unleaded fuel 91
 * Fuel consumption: EPA urban (mpg): 18, country/highway (mpg): 26 and combined (mpg): 21
 * Fuel economy EPA highway (mpg): 26 and EPA city (mpg): 18
 * Multi-point injection fuel system
 * 17.7 gallon main premium unleaded fuel tank
 * Power: 194 kW, 260 HP SAE @ 6,600 rpm; 225 ft lb , 305 Nm @ 2,750 rpm
 * Four-wheel ABS
 * 3.64:1 axle ratio
 * Brake assist system
 * Cornering brake control
 * Four disc brakes including four ventilated discs
 * Electronic brake distribution
 * Electronic traction control via ABS & engine management
 * Immobilizer
 * Center limited slip differential
 * Spacesaver steel rim under body spare wheel
 * Stability control
 * Strut front suspension independent with stabilizer bar and coil springs, multi-link rear suspension independent with stabilizer bar and coil springs
 * Part-painted front and rear bumpers
 * Chrome/bright trim around side windows
 * Day time running lights
 * Driver power heated body color door mirrors, passenger power heated body color door mirrors with automatic
 * External dimensions: overall length (inches): 179.9, overall width (inches): 73, overall height (inches): 66, ground clearance (inches): 8, wheelbase (inches): 110.1, front track (inches): 60 and rear track (inches): 60.7
 * Front fog lights
 * Complex surface lens halogen bulb headlights
 * Heat reflective glass
 * Luxury trim alloy & leather on gearknob, wood/woodgrain on doors and wood/woodgrain on dashboard
 * Black paint
 * Fixed rear window with defogger and intermittent
 * Roof rails
 * Roof spoiler
 * Glass electric front to rear sunroof
 * Tinted glass on cabin, rear and side
 * Weights: gross vehicle weight rating (lbs) 5,049, curb weight (lbs) 4,012, gross trailer weight braked (lbs) 3,500 and max payload (lbs) 1,036
 * Windshield wipers with automatic intermittent wipe and rain sensor —Preceding unsigned comment added by 114.26.186.209 (talk) 05:12, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

have a BMW 320 2.0 diesel on a 05 plate, I have what looks like a timing chain problem, I took the engine head off and found 8 of the rocker fingers broken, but the timing chain don't seams to be damage, But
 * I know some thing is wrong but cant figure it out have never worked on one of these engines so if you know what cause these rocker fingers to be broken and what I need to do to fix the problem please feel to share your comments. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.149.128.241 (talk) 15:00, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

New table to summarise model engines over time
I'm thinking a table would be helpful to clarify the model naming/engine choices.

For example, something like:

So, 1. Is this already available elsewhere on the web? Not much point spending time on this if there is. 2. Does anybody else see the use of this? I'm not going to bother finishing it off if it will just get removed from the page. Danio (talk) 22:39, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

folding mirrows
I have a BMW E46 325ci 2004 vin N.PL62403 I would like to know if my side mirrows can be fold manualy or if I can bay a door switch to make them work electrically could you please give me some suggestions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:8003:A570:E400:E1D4:AF41:C362:594 (talk) 01:31, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

Why only US sales?
It seems odd that the only sales information would be for the US. Especially as this is a European car. I'd be interested to see the information for China, as I'm sure the numbers would have grown at a ridiculous pace. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.82.19.50 (talk) 07:05, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

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G20 inclusion
Hi Heatseaker. I believe that the upcoming G20 generation should be included. Spy shots and insider reports are evidence that the model exists. The text is therefore well supported by references. WP:NOTHOWTO states that "if preparation for the event is not already in progress", and BMW have been working on the G20 for at least 5 years now. As per the upcoming 2017 iPhone (which has a weaker case than the G20: it does not yet have a name and the sources don't feature photos of it), the only question is when it will be officially announced. Therefore, I believe that the G20 passes NOTHOWTO. Cheers, 1292simon (talk) 21:55, 4 April 2017 (UTC)


 * Hi, 1292simon. Here's the problem: all of the spyshots, all of the information cited, is speculation. BMW has said nothing about the G20 (I'm not even sure they confirmed the platform code), so everything is speculation. Simply putting "Expected 2018" in the header confirms the speculative nature of the information.
 * I'll give an example. One of the websites cited states definitively that the new 3 Series will have carbon fiber in its construction since the 7 Series does. Similar websites said the same of the G30 5 Series. Guess what? The G30 arrived, but it has not an ounce of carbon fiber.
 * Until BMW says something about the car, it's 100% speculation. Even if one of these media outlets gets a tip from a production supplier of something actually happening, plans change. What's the point in discussing a topic that could still be changing?
 * Oh, and that mention in the iPhone article? It shouldn't be there either. I'll go delete it.heat_fan1 (talk) 16:45, 5 April 2017 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the explanation. I don't think it should all be dismissed as speculation. There is lots of coverage of prototype sightings and the articles often refer to information from insiders (of course the sources will be anonymous before the model is officially released). So I think there is far more substance to it than just speculation. Of course, not every detail will be 100% correct, but decisions such as the platform and engines need to be locked in years before launch. Why do you think it won't be called G20? I don't think too much should be read into the word "expected" in the title, it is just to fit the structure of the article. Cheers, 1292simon (talk) 13:42, 7 April 2017 (UTC)


 * I guess my main objection is based on the fundamentals of Wikipedia (or any encyclopedia). Fundamentally, WP is based on facts. It presents things that are. While "The G20 is expected to include new 3 and 4 cylinder engines" is a factual statement, that statement says nothing about the car itself; it describes, factually, only someone's opinion. Again, "insider" information can only be based on plans, not the released product. And since this isn't an article about the development of the G20 and we don't have any real information from BMW, by definition, we cannot describe the new car. You mention 100% of details won't be correct, but then why present them at all? That's a total violation of WP:CRYSTALBALL. Here's the last sentence of that section: "Speculation and rumor, even from reliable sources, are not appropriate encyclopedic content."
 * I understand the excitement to talk about the newest car. I'm a car nut, so I'm totally there with you. Wikipedia just isn't the place for it, yet. heat_fan1 (talk) 20:42, 7 April 2017 (UTC)


 * Articles are often based on expert opinions. For example, a black hole is not directly observable, but the wikipedia article acknowledges it as a real phenomenon, based on experts interpretations of data. And United States presidential election, 2020 includes discussion of potential candidates when selection of the actual candidates is over 3 years away. The 2020 election article is actually used as an example in WP:CRYSTALBALL, which means the less speculative G20 text must also be ok. I think the CRYSTALBALL line about "speculation and rumour" is being mis-applied here; it is mainly aimed at reducing advertising for future films and games in wikipedia. Instead, I believe the G20 text is supported by CRYSTALBALL's more general statement that "It is appropriate to report discussion and arguments about the prospects for success of future proposals and projects or whether some development will occur, if discussion is properly referenced". Cheers, 1292simon (talk) 04:48, 8 April 2017 (UTC)


 * Except that the example of the election is in a note about "scheduled or expected future events." Sure, you could call the release of the 3-Series an expected future event, except for note 5 about "product announcements and rumors," in which you find the comment that "Speculation and rumor, even from reliable sources, are not appropriate encyclopedic content." I do see in the Talk archive that the line came out of a discussion about video games, but I don't see why it doesn't apply here too. A car release is much closer to a product release than an event. Further, from WP:Automobiles, we have this instruction about unannounced vehicles: "In accordance with WP:CRYSTALBALL, information about future or speculative vehicles that have not been officially announced by their manufacturer should not be discussed. If an article is created or information added to an existing page about a speculative vehicle, it is to be either deleted or redirected to an article whose subject is most relevant to the redirect's subject." I think that about sums it up. heat_fan1 (talk) 03:12, 10 April 2017 (UTC)


 * As you wish. If you want to remove that section, I won't change it until there is information from BMW. Cheers, 1292simon (talk) 08:12, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Wiki warriors. SMH. Everyone and their mother knows the G20 exists. BMW won't say anything for marketing purposes. Arguments against its inclusion here are beyond ridiculous. Brout8 (talk) 18:16, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

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