Talk:Bacalao (phantom island)

Spelling
Which spelling is the most common? Should this page be at Bacalhau (island), with Bacalhau a disambiguation page? -- ALoan (Talk) 18:24, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)


 * I agree. Bacalhau is more common than Bacalao. --TintininLisbon 21:55, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)


 * "Bacalhau" is the modern name for an island off the coast of Newfoundland. The name is derived from the Portuguese. "Bacalao" and other cognates is a sixteenth century name for Newfoundland. It was a common word in Portugal, Spain, France, etc., for the dried cod and was appropriately applied to Newfoundland by these early fishermen (including the Basques). ALL references to precolumbian visits to Bacalao, e.g., Joao Vaz Corte Real, are from post-columbian sources and suspect.


 * They are not, not of they all. The Reference to de Discoverer João Vaz Corte Real of the "Ilha(Island) do Bacalhau" on west in Portugal, and the Doation of lands in Azores are Pre-Columbian.


 * And who is the gentleman to chime in?

Why do you think your retarded opinions have any validity? 1) "Bacalhau" is the Portuguese proper spelling for "Codfish". In the XV and XVI centuries it could be written either bacalhao or bacallao. 2) The Island of "Bacalhau" is evidently of Portuguese origin. In its name, at least. But most ancient names in Newfoundland are actually derived from Portuguese words, mirroring an earlier Portuguese settlment on the island. 3) Terra Nova, as it has been called, meaning New(found)land, is Portuguese in origin: Terra Nova -> Portuguese Tierra Nueva -> Castillan Spanish Terra Nuova -> Italian 4) Bacalhau is a Portuguese word, only. 5) There are much fragmentary evidence that the Portuguese discovered "Terra Nova dos Bacalhaus" or "Newfoundland of the Codfish" before Colombus silly adventure in 1492. It's pretty clear in the Portuguese archives with land grants in the 1470s for having discovered such land and demands for the paying of tax on "The Newfoundland Island of Bacalhau, to the West of the Azores, beyond the Ocean Sea". The Danish documents also appear to corrobate this, in part, on the common Portuguese-Danish expedition to bring the Danes into contact with the Greenlanders Norse again. The request for help of the Danish King to the Portuguese King survives in a fragmentary way in the Portuguese archives. 6) Colombus only touched the mainland of the American continent in 1498, curiously enough... There are maps with Newfoundland that preceed 1498. 7) Gaspar Frutuoso records the arrival of Colombus to Lisbon in 1492 after his silly adventure, and how the Portuguese King becomes bothered because those islands were his but lay beyond the line of the Treaty signed with Spain, thus, he'll lose the monoply on the trade with the Americas: "to believe that the Islands now discovered by Colon were already known and part of his Lordship of Guinea, as they had belong to Prince Henry, the Navigator..."

15th century?
This is from the article:
 * Bacalao literally means "cod", which is often used for "stockfish". Spanish fisherman fished for cod at the Grand Banks of Newfoundland in the 15th century, so this is a possible origin of the name.

Um, really? The 15th century, as in 1401-1500? Unless there were enterprising fishermen who crossed the Atlantic right after Columbus got back to Spain, I doubt there were Spanish fisherman in the Grand Banks in any quantity during the 15th century. They really only had 7-8 years left to do it.

Now, they might have been there, but that again supposes a pre-Columbian Spanish presence in the Grand Banks. This assumes the claim which for which it is trying to be evidence. --Saforrest 23:14, 15 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I thought the Grand Banks were known before Columbus and Cabot even if Newfoundland was not. British fishermen were shut out of Iceland's waters in the 15th century, and when invited back they declined as they had a new and better source further west.--Rumping (talk) 10:43, 23 September 2008 (UTC)


 * There WERE fishermen in the Grand Banks only a few years after Columbus discovered the West Indies. Have you guys forgotten the discoverer of the mainland - Cabot? He discovered the Gulf of St. Lawrence and the Grand Banks in 1497, just five years after Columbus' first trip. Immediately, fleets of fishermen - mostly Basques and the English fleet from Bristol - descended on the area in great numbers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.193.237.78 (talk) 02:52, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

The origin here could be of the Portuguese Bacalhau through Spanish or directly to English, French and other languages, since some legends from Azores etc. spoke of many voyages and ancient fishermen in 15th century. And the Island of Bacalhau is a Portuguese first account about João Vaz Corte Real and other Portuguese and Nordic Explorers in 1472 and after, that continued into the later 15th and 16th centuries. — Preceding unsigned comment added by LuzoGraal (talk • contribs) 15:02, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

Exactly. Not to mention that the Azores were discovered between 1427 and 1456. And since then, regular sea faring voyages were made between Portugal and the Azores. Consider also that since the settlement of Terceira Island in the 1430s, Azoreans claimed to know that there were Islands to the West, not only because of the several legends of enchanted Isles which the discovery of the Azores only made stronger and more palpable, but also because, thanks to the Atlantic Gyre, vegetation regularly would give to the coast of some Azorean Islands coming from the West. Azoreans were already speaking of "the Land of Canadá" in the 1430s, or "the Land of the Cane (Cana) (that) Gives (dá) (to the shore). Not to mention that since the 1470s Corte Real is made Capitain of the Azores and for discovering the "Terra Nova dos Bacalhaus" (Newfoundland of the Codfish) and is required to pay taxes for his fisheries on "Terra Nova, para lá do Mar Oceano, a Oeste dos Açores" (or Newfoundland, beyond the Ocean Sea, to the West of the Azores). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 148.71.87.106 (talk) 21:56, 18 September 2019 (UTC)

Where?
The article does not currently indicate where maps supposedly indicated the phantom island was. If it was somewhere around NFLD, whereabouts was it? Was it further south? If's not even clear if it was in the Atlantic, frankly.  PK T (alk)  17:37, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

Gaspar Frutuoso, not reliable, lol
This is very insulting. Gaspar Frutuoso was one of the most learned men in Europe of his time. He is the great chronicle of the Maraconesian Islands. Presenting a "pseudo-researcher" from Lithuania, to say that, topped it all out. Well done, wiki! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 148.71.87.106 (talk) 21:32, 18 September 2019 (UTC)