Talk:Bach family

Comments
I'm searching for a HISTORY of the J.S. Bach family. %How many sons(?) did he father? (I'm actually seeking a history of his 21st son (of 20) PDQ BACH. Thanks to Peter Schikele. ^ Charlieheretolearn 21:22, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't know if you realized that P. D. Q. Bach was an invention of Schikele, for comic purposes. He wouldn't have a place in an account of the real family. David Brooks 20:09, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Does anyone think the article is a bit hard to read? I can't think of a good way to rewrite the text, but wouldn't at least a template look nice here (and on related pages) which would list famous composers of the Bach family (listing Johann Sebastian Bach, several of his sons who gained fame as composers and a single composer grandson would be enough I reckon?). I don't know much about creating and editing templates, and although I'm willing to learn, I'm not sure whether people would want a Bach family template. Jashiin 16:07, 15 May 2005 (UTC)

Ich lass Dich nicht
Shouldn't the translation of "Ich lasse Dich nicht" be "I won't leave you" (or lit. "I don't leave you")? I don't know the text to this motet, but just noticed that "I wrestle and pray" is not a very good translation of the motet's German name. 217.18.180.146 11:17, 12 October 2005 (UTC)


 * "Lasse" in this context is closer to "release" (it is a funeral hymn). The opening words in German are Ich lasse dich nicht, du Segnest mich denn - an idiomatic English translation would be something like "I will not let you go until I have your blessing" - although it is possible it is sometimes sung in English to words starting "I wrestle and pray"?? I won't fix this as the whole article is probably in breach of copyright anyway (see section below). How on earth did it survive all these years without this being picked up on!!!!!! --Soundofmusicals (talk) 06:32, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

Shouldn't Johann Sebastian Bach The Younger be in the family tree?
Shouldn't Johann Sebastian Bach The Younger be in the family tree?--Jax 0677 (talk) 04:56, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
 * He's in the list; I suspect there are a few more which are listed but are not in the graphical family tree. The Dutch Wikipedia has a different style of family tree which doesn't have him either as there's no Dutch Wikipedia article for him. These family trees are a bit tricky to edit; unless someone with expertise in them comes along, I suggest to leave it alone. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 10:08, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

awkward sentence
"Sebastian Bach thus inherited the artistic tradition of a united family whose circumstances had deprived them of the distractions of the century of musical fermentation which in the rest of Europe had destroyed polyphonic music."

does this sentence seem a little bit clunky to anyone else? I'm having trouble understanding it, I think the author is trying to squeeze too many concepts into one phrase. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.202.14.55 (talk) 22:57, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

P.D.Q. Bach?
Mentioning P.D.Q. Bach in this article is like mentioning an Elvis impersonator in an article about Elvis Presley. It reeks of promoting an act who is irrelevant to the topic of the article. I intend to delete thar mention in the near future, since there is no valid objection.

(Another thing is that after mentioning numerous relatives, the author starts mentioning "Sebastian Bach", by which he seems to be referring to J.S. Bach. Was he known as "Sebastian" rather than "Johann" during his lifetime?) 77Mike77 (talk) 03:41, 26 March 2017 (UTC)
 * His impersonators are actually mentioned in Presley's article. I don't see how a single entry under "See also" for a related figure should be considered inappropriate and irrelevant.
 * Also: the family tree was completely redone on 29 November 2016 by User:Brigante mandrogno; I have no idea whether that revamp was an improvement. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 10:59, 26 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Re calling him "Sebastian" -- yes, that is how he was known and yes it would be good if this was explained in the article. But you can deduce it simply by the fact that he had two brothers who were also named Johann (Johann Jacob and Johann Christoph) and obviously if they were all known by the name "Johann" it would have resulted in a lot of confusion in the household! And in fact J.S. Bach named 5 of his sons Johann, so again obviously they were not called by that name. (I believe that in fact most of his children were known by their middle names.)David Couch (talk) 06:03, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

Mentioning impersonators contributes to the silliness of wikipedia articles. But if that is the way it is, then why are the Swingle Singers not mentioned? Their "swing" version of Bach's music are much better known than this PDQ fellow. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FNZ1YRc3Zpk 77Mike77 (talk) 22:12, 26 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Their name is not Bach. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 08:43, 27 March 2017 (UTC)

Problem with family tree
I think the section on the far right with Johann Jakob Bach (1682-1722) needs to be fixed. It says his son is Johann Ludwig (1677-1731) which wouldn't be possible; since the son would have to be born before the father. Looking at the expanded genealogical tree below the table it looks like the 1682 Jakob was confused with the Johann Jakob born in 1655 and listed as the father of J. Ludwig born 1677. If this is correct, shouldn't the table be fixed? --FeanorStar7 17:20, 29 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Kudos to your eagle eyes, FeanorStar7. I think I fixed it, but please check. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 03:22, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
 * @User:Michael Bednarek, thanks very much; yes this looks correct. --FeanorStar7 11:29, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

Apparent confusion of two Bachs
There seems to be a confusion on this page between Johann Jacob Bach (1682-1722), an older brother of JSB, and Jacob Bach (1655-1718), sometimes described as (Johann) Jacob Bach, a third cousin of JSB. The former died childless;: the latter was the father of Johann Ludwig Bach (1677-1731), the so-called Meiniger Bach.

See https://www.genealogieonline.nl/en/stamboom_van_rems_dijkstra/I13077.php

Jacob Bach (1655-1718) is shown apparently correctly in the Expanded genealogy part of the Bach family page. He is a third cousin of JSB because they share the same great-great-grandfather, Johannes Bach (1580-1626).

However this distant cousin appears in the Partial family tree as a brother of JSB with erroneous wife and son. . The simplest solution would seem to be just to remove these three boxes from the family tree. JSB’s only other brother to survive childhood, Johann Christoph Bach (1671-1721) is not shown here and it would seem reasonable to exclude both from the partial Family tree.

I am a relatively unskilled editor of Wikipedia and I fear it would take me more time than I am willing to spend to make this correction myself. Maybe some more able person would take it on?

TonySamson (talk) 10:28, 5 July 2019 (UTC)

Tone of article
Does anyone else think the style that the article is written in is a little overly adorned and unencyclopedic? Some phrases in particular are "through all the misery of the peasantry at the period of the Thirty Years' War" and "so numerous and so eminent were they." And "the distractions of the century of musical fermentation which in the rest of Europe had destroyed polyphonic music" seems subjective to me. It reads like a non-fiction book rather than an encyclopedia. Would a tone tag be appropriate? Sarbz (talk) 06:04, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
 * It would, as would some thorough article clean-up. Toccata quarta (talk) 06:09, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
 * On the other hand, that's a verbatim quote from Francis Hueffer in the 9th ed. EB. It's impossible to overstate the importance of the Bachs; WP only reports what other writers have written. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 06:16, 13 December 2020 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Linguistics in the Digital Age
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