Talk:Back to the Future timeline/Archive 3

Nixon Election
Someone keeps editing the page to add information about Nixon being re-elected in November 1976 and 1980. This is all speculation. The only information we have from the movie is that, in May 1983, Nixon announced he was running for a fifth term. That fact doesn't support the speculation about his winning previous elections &mdash; as was pointed out earlier in this talk page, there are several different ways for someone to become president. Moreover, the editor assumes that the Constitutionally-mandated election date is still valid. Yet this timeline is so skewed that parts of the Constitution are no longer valid; we already know that the 22nd Amendment has been revoked, for instance. There is no reason to assume that other parts of the Constitution also dealing with presidential elections are intact. -- Ritchy 17:21, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Furthermore, it is a completely irrelevent piece of trivia that has no impact upon the story whatsoever. Let's keep irrelevent trivia to a minimum. Breed3011 20:15, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Well the most likely explanation is that he did not resign in 1974 as in the original timeline (assuming that he was elected in 1968 and 1972 as in the original timeline) and that some time between 1955 and 1976 the 22nd amendment was altered or repealed, allowing him to be re-elected in 1976 and 1980, and seek a 5th term in 1984. However it is also possible that he served was elected (or elevated to) for 4 terms non-consecutively any time between 1955 and 1980; Eisenhower could have died some time between 1955 and 1960, elevating then vice-president Nixon to the presidency; Nixon could have defeated Kennedy (or possibly a different democratic candidate) in 1960; and he could have been elected (or re-elected) for a term in 1964. However it seems reasonable to briefly note the most likely explanation. I agree it's a piece of trivia, but I woulddn't necessarily call it irrelevant, as the changes to the timeline are often shown in the movie in minor background details as well as the changing details that directly impact the plot. I think a brief mention won't bog down the article too much, and added it.75.70.125.3 12:40, 27 March 2007 (UTC)


 * As you yourself pointed out and repeated several times in your post, this is only one possible explaination. The most possible one, one could argue, but not the only possible one, and there is nothing actually shown in the movies to support it over any other. Hence, it is speculation, not a fact shown in the movies, and doesn't belong on the page. -- Ritchy 14:09, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Arguably 99% of this article is speculation, but fine, I'll concede the point, as there are many scenarios that could have had Nixon serving 4 terms as president between 1955 and 1980, and seeking a 5th term in 1984, and there's no proof from what's known in the movie, script, novelization, etc. as to which explanation the movie makers preferred. So for now at least I'll leave it out.75.70.125.3 21:49, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't want to be picky on something you may consider a "throw-away" comment - but nothing in the article is speculation. All the facts and events follow the timelines and rules set out in the films. Any speculation which appears in this article would be considered by Wikipedia to consitute Orginal Research, which would mean that the page could be deleted from encyclopedia. It is for this reason that your speculation was removed. Breed3011 22:06, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Isn't there a ninth timeline technically?
When Doc modifies a locomotive to serve as a time machine (finishing it c. 1895) and travels forward to some point in the future to retrofit it to be able to fly, then travels back to 1985, wouldn't that cause a ninth timeline to form? (The original 8th being one where Marty and Jennifer never see Doc again after the DeLorean is destroyed, and Marty has to take care of Einstein as Doc never returns for him; the ninth starting when Doc returns to 1985 to say good-bye to Marty and Jennifer, and takes Einstein with him to whatever time he goes to after the train leaves 1985). Not sure if that's notable enough to include but it would seem consistent with the way the rest of the timeline is presented. Any thoughts whether it's worth added Timeline 9 or not?75.70.125.3 13:02, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Technically, there are a lot more timelines. What about the multiple trips Doc made to the future to fit the Delorean with a Mr Fusion and a hover-conversion and to track down what went wrong with Marty's family? What about all the trips Doc must have made to collect all his "emergency money"? The problem is, we have no way of knowing how many such trips occured, or to when, or what happened in them. So we have to limit the page to trips that are shown in the movies, and ignore the ones that are hinted/referenced/alluded to. -- Ritchy 14:12, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

That makes sense... to expand it past the 8 known timelines would require a lot of speculation and would make the article too confusing and likely insert OR as well...

Anyway just felt a need to throw that out there.75.70.125.3 21:52, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

We don't know that Doc Brown made multiple trips to the future to have the Delorean outfitted with future technology. He may have made a single trip to the future in Timeline 2 (not creating a new timeline) and then came back to 1985, creating Timeline 3 as described. I thought Einstein was the first time traveler, meaning that Doc Brown had not himself done it previously. He must have simply acquired his emergency money in the present from collectors or some such; old money does still exist. I find it accurate to state that the closing moments of BTTF III feature Timeline 9, created by Doc Brown and Clara by bringing the futuristically outfitted train time machine (no new timeline created by their traveling to the future in Timeline 8) to 1985 from some future date. If they went to the past after that, they created Timeline 10, but it's not part of the films. --DavidK93 15:41, 10 April 2007 (UTC)


 * we can't know what effect the conversation between jennifer, marty, doc, and clara has on the future, if any, so while it's correct that there is a 9th timeline, we know nothing about it, and it may be almost identical to the 8th timeline. there is also jennifer and marty's knowledge of doc and clara's fate, but that probably won't change the future either. Sahuagin 16:36, 29 April 2007 (UTC)


 * actually i was thinking about this today. i can't remember but if doc and marty's last conversation occurs before marty makes his decision not to race needles, then it's very probable that the conversation is directly responsible for that decision, and the 9th timeline is therefore very different from the 8th. Sahuagin 14:05, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
 * No, it's after. Marty decides not to race Needles, then Jennifer figures out the truth about time travel, then Marty takes her to the DeLorean's remains, and then Doc and his family appear in the time-train. Then, end credits. There's nothing in the movies after the last conversation between Doc and Marty. -- Ritchy 14:17, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

1996
Okay, so what's the source for Biff getting killed by Lorraine in 1996 in the timelines where Biff gets rich off of foreknowledge of sports events? &mdash; Rickyrab | Talk 16:38, 8 June 2007 (UTC) I have a hard time finding evidence in the movies to support a 1996 murder.

The source comes from an interview with Writer/Producer Bob Gale and Writer/Director Robert Zemeckis regarding Frequently Asked Questions about the movies (canon quality) - http://www.bttf.com/film_faq.htm - many people couldnt understand why Biff disappeared when he went from 1955 to 2015. Whilst the scene is open to interpretations, it was their intention that Biff would have been killed in some time around 1996 and hence no longer in the timeline. Excerpt from interview below:

Q: What happened to old Biff when he staggered out of the DeLorean in 2015? ''A: Our intention regarding old Biff was that upon his return to 2015, he would be erased from existence because he had changed his entire destiny by giving his younger self the Sports Almanac. (Probably, Lorraine shot him sometime around 1996!). After old Biff clutches his chest and staggers (the same symptoms that Marty exhibited in Back to the Future when he was beginning to be "erased"), we actually filmed him falling onto the street and vanishing, and we previewed the movie this way (see The Secrets of the Back to the Future™ Trilogy). However, the vast majority of the audience did not understand it, so we decided to cut it out, leaving the answer ambiguous, and subject to various interpretations -- besides the above explanation, you can believe that Old Biff had a heart attack from the shock of time travel of from flying the car, or from something that happened to him in 1955.''

'''Q: When Doc and Marty are in 1955-A, Doc says they can't return to the future to stop Biff from stealing the DeLorean, because it would be the wrong future. But if that's true, how did Old Biff manage to get back to the same future that he left? Shouldn't he have come back to a different future?''' ''A: As should be clear from the answer to the previous question, we believe Old Biff DID indeed return to a different future -- a "2015-A," which would have transformed around Marty, Doc, Jennifer and Einstein (just as Doc explains how 1985-A would change into 1985 and instantly transform around Jennifer and Einstein). This would happen AFTER Old Biff returned with the DeLorean. For this reason, we made sure that Doc had caught Jennifer and exited the McFly Townhouse before Old Biff returned. Thus, by the time Marty and Doc are carrying Jennifer back to the DeLorean, there COULD be other residents in that townhouse -- or perhaps the McFlys still live there. It is just as believable that the physicality of the neighborhood did NOT change as it is to believe that it did -- so we didn't change it. We decided not to make anything of this idea because this is one of those difficult time travel concepts that general audiences have a real hard time understanding. (Try explaining this stuff to your mother and you'll see what we mean.) A detailed explanation of it would have slowed down the story, and most of the audience doesn't ever think about it. That's why we made certain things ambiguous and left various things open for interpretation in hopes that the possibility of at least one or two explanations would be better than a "definitive" explanation that you could find holes in. Let's face it, time travel is fantasy, so there's no way to "prove" anything. As filmmakers, we try to create a set of rule for our stories and stick by them, and stay consistent within the little "universe" that we've created.'' Breed3011 08:24, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Trivial unsourced dates
Does anyone know where some of the birth dates comes from - stuff like Milton Baines, Sam Baines - who says they were born in 1910? This article is packed with trivia, which is by its nature trivial! If no-one comes forward by, say July 29th to offer where a lot of the trivial details come from is it ok if I remove certain details? Breed3011 08:07, 20 July 2007 (UTC)


 * They're official dates from the Bobs. PMA 14:02, 24 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I have not seen this kind of trivia come from the movie, the DVD extras or published interviews with them. Especially in this movie series, you cannot assume that a character is the same age as the actor playing him -- makeup enables them to portray any age the director wants.  If it's not generally known among fans, please cite the source or remove. GUllman 20:34, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

I suppose it is possible that some of the novelised versions of the film contain these details in appendixes or stuff, but no sources are cited. Breed3011 21:54, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

I was told it was from the Bobs, oh well.

It doesn't seem likely that their ages are that different - for example Maia Brewton was 8 in 1985 and it would be pretty odd if 1955's Sally Baines wasn't 8 as well (and thus born in 1947). PMA 06:59, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Italic text
In one paragraph of Timeline 4, the statement about Doc's failure to notice Old Biff's departure time on the DeLorean's readout is in italic font to indicate that Doc presumably fails to notice that. Is this correct? Hallpriest9 ( Talk  |  Archive ) 03:21, 8 September 2007 (UTC)