Talk:Backstage (Canadian TV series)

Canadian viewers
I checked, Numeris only publishes the top 30 and of course this series isn't in that, so that's not really useful. nyuszika7h (talk) 08:30, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

Recurring characters
We're getting closer to the point where we may need to add a 'Recurring characters' section to this article. Madison MacGregor's Cassandra (the senior(?) head "prima") has now shown up in multiple episodes (at least 3, by my count). And it's possible we may see Eliana Jones' Mel (the leader of the "Movement for Non-Movers" class) and others again. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 03:04, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

Plot and Characters sections
Both the plot 'Plot' and 'Characters' sections looks like they need a lot of work. The 'Plot' section is a mess in terms of WP:TONE. And the 'Characters' section is overwritten, and needs to be trimmed (pretty substantially). --IJBall (contribs • talk) 23:40, 25 May 2016 (UTC)

Plot copyvio
I'm not sure if it's possible to revdel without losing useful history in this case since there have been small edits to the summary since then as well. I tagged and listed it at WP:CP just to be safe. We don't usually request that when people copy episode summaries (though that would be easier for edits that have not been there unreverted for a longer time), and that page says "The infringing text will remain in the page history for archival reasons unless the copyright holder asks the Wikimedia Foundation to remove it", but someone there will decide what to do with it, I guess. nyuszika7h (talk) 20:35, 26 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Posting this here too, editor claims to be the copyright holder, but it would be better for someone to write a summary from scratch anyway, as this one is not really in an encyclopedic tone. nyuszika7h (talk) 20:48, 26 May 2016 (UTC)
 * OTRS, and release, confirmed. (t) Josve05a  (c) 20:54, 27 May 2016 (UTC)
 * OK, fine, but as per my Talk topic above this one, the current 'Plot' section needs to be totally rewritten, "permission" to use or not, as its WP:TONE isn't in the slightest bit "encyclopedic". So I agree with that the 'Plot' section needs to be rewritten in any case.  Want to give it a shot?... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 22:28, 27 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm not that great when it comes to writing summaries, with some exceptions in the episode summary department. I'm better at correcting grammatical and similar errors. You might try asking, though. He's watched a few episodes of this and is an expert at summaries. Amaury (talk) 01:56, 28 May 2016 (UTC)

The episode "Showtime"—don't know about validity of entry in The Futon Critic, under another title "The Collab"
Concerning this edit regarding this episode being under a different title "The Collab": Not sure that title is correct and whether to revert it right now. When I looked at it in The Futon Critic and clicked on that episode, it does show Backstage at the top and then that episode title, but looking at the synopsis below, it shows Bizaardvark for the series name, as well as a description that would go with that show and not Backstage. The Bizaardvark episode "The Collab" is scheduled to air on the same day, July 31, according to Zap2it. MPFitz1968 (talk) 17:37, 2 July 2016 (UTC)
 * ✅ Amaury (talk) 19:57, 2 July 2016 (UTC)

Mrs. Blackwell
Regarding this edit, the name "Mrs. Blackwell" is mentioned in the show, but since we don't include the last names for the characters, it would be confusing for a reader not familiar with the show without any other explanation. nyuszika7h (talk) 11:35, 25 August 2016 (UTC)

Lack of promos from Disney Channel - ???
Tonight resumes season one of Backstage with the episode "Restart", the first of 15 new episodes over the next three weeks. (And I'm noting that the episode is on Watch Disney right now as well.) Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've heard pretty much nothing from Disney Channel about these upcoming episodes, unlike for the first part of the season. I haven't seen DC promote this group of episodes like when Stuck in the Middle, Best Friends Whenever and Bunk'd had week-long strings of new episodes during the last couple of months. MPFitz1968 (talk) 17:23, 12 September 2016 (UTC)
 * I haven't seen anything, but I haven't paid too much attention, either. However, there is an episode airing tonight as planned and I have a DVR set for it. Amaury ( talk &#124; contribs ) 17:58, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

Episode count in infobox
I have decided to increment the episode count to reflect the airing of both "Juggle" and "Eyes Forward" in the U.S. (the latter within the last hour on Disney Channel's east feed). Not sure whether that's OK, given these haven't aired yet in Canada, the country of origin for the show. Instructions at Template:Infobox television are not clear on that point. MPFitz1968 (talk) 22:54, 14 September 2016 (UTC)
 * I see no issue with updating the episode count based on where it airs first. At least with a show like this. Amaury ( talk &#124; contribs ) 23:01, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

Redux
With regard to 's edit here, since he wasn't sure himself, it is my understanding that we only count actual airings on television. Have all 30 episodes of season two aired in Australia and the UK? Nothing can "air" with online streaming. Pinging, , and as well. Amaury ( talk &#124; contribs ) 23:11, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
 * It looks like the second season has become primarily a streaming series, like NETFLIX original ones, where we document the release date instead of the air date. Maybe treat it as such unless or until they start to air it. Geraldo Perez (talk) 23:41, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
 * That's my take as well – there is no evidence that Backstage is even going to air in Canada, let alone the U.S. I'm thinking that, in this case, we can use the Netflix release dates. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 23:53, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Guest stars
I noticed the character names for guest stars have been removed from the episode list. They were using parentheses to avoid suggesting that those names are listed in the credits. I believe they deserve a mention at least at the first occurrence of each actor as not all of them qualify for recurring status. nyuszika7h (talk) 15:41, 1 October 2016 (UTC)
 * That sounds like a good plan. In the first instance they appear, we can include their character name in parentheses and then people can just scroll up if they can't figure out an actor. I'll go through it later, if you haven't already done so. Amaury ( talk &#124; contribs ) 17:57, 1 October 2016 (UTC)

Season 2 premiere
So, looks like season 2 premieres in the UK on July 28. There's a promo confirming July (low quality) and the Radio Times TV listing confirming the day. (I've archived this preemptively in case we want to keep the references after the episodes have aired.) Aviva also hinted at this on Twitter confirming it—she's not verified yet, but it's just additional confirmation for us anyway, the Radio Times reference should be sufficient for the article. From Virgin Media's TV listings it looks like it will be airing weekly as usual, though it doesn't mention an episode number for the next week yet.

The question is, how should we handle air dates? Three columns would be too crowded, and one or two columns listing all three dates would be messy too. I would suggest only listing the Canadian dates and adding notes at the end of episode summaries for the first premiere country/date where it's not Canada. I know our viewership numbers are all from the US, but readers can click through to the reference to get the US air dates anyway. (UK may also have ratings available for the show if it happens to be in their shorter top list; I'll check that out later.) nyuszika7h (talk) 22:54, 20 July 2017 (UTC)
 * I say go with how it is in season one with air date columns only for Canada and the US as those are the major countries of airing as it looks like the UK was a last-minute-type of a deal. Canada and the US also essentially started airing this at about the same time, whereas the UK is only starting now. UK premiere date can be mentioned in the Broadcast section. Amaury ( talk &#124; contribs ) 23:02, 20 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Wow, looks like MediaWiki got smarter with handling edit conflicts. I edited my comment after your reply and it didn't conflict or erase yours; it automatically merged them. nyuszika7h (talk) 23:06, 20 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Well, if UK wasn't doing the world premiere of season 2, I'd be more inclined to accept that, but this way, I'm not really sure if prioritizing the US anyway makes sense. (Anyway, I'm going to sleep now.) nyuszika7h (talk) 23:07, 20 July 2017 (UTC)
 * A little birdie has told me the show is supposed to premiere in Canada (and possibly the U.S.) "in the Fall". I dunno if that means August or September or October, but I expect the show to premiere in Canada, at least, soon... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 23:11, 20 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, I've heard that too. Multiple cast members have confirmed "fall" on Instagram Live. But with season 1B premiering in the US first and season 2 premiering in the UK first, I'm not sure if we should prioritize only the US specifically. WP:TVINTL suggests using the "Broadcast" section, but I think notes in the episode summaries would be fine, perhaps in addition to a short summary of the situation in that section, because otherwise we'd have episodes with no air dates listed at all in the episode list until it premieres in Canada. (Going to sleep for real now.) nyuszika7h (talk) 23:18, 20 July 2017 (UTC)
 * There are various ways to handle this. It really depends on how many episodes air in the UK before they air in Canada. One option would be to swap the UK in place of the U.S. in the season #2 episodes table, if all of the episodes air in the UK before Canada (and the U.S.). We'll just have to see how this plays out... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 23:29, 20 July 2017 (UTC)
 * One other point – when the details of season #2 episodes become known, I would definitely advise splitting out the episode guide to List of Backstage episodes at that point. The current episode guide is already 30 episodes long, so it's already starting to push up against appropriate length-limit – the season #2 episodes will definitely put it over the top, so the split out will be appropriate at that point. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 00:17, 21 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Yep, I agree it's time for a split. I've created a sandbox version at User:Nyuszika7H/sandbox/List of Backstage episodes. Suggestions welcome. nyuszika7h (talk) 10:31, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

Backstage has season two episodes listed now on Zap2it, but it's not clear for which region. Definitely not the US as it says there are no national broadcasts in the next two weeks when clicking on the August 4 episode which is next week. Amaury ( talk &#124; contribs ) 05:08, 25 July 2017 (UTC)
 * I've filled in info about the first episode and requested the sandbox episode list to be moved to mainspace now. And yeah, it's not explicitly stated, but it's almost certainly the UK, so I've added those, but if you guys think it's too OR, we can wait for the Radio Times listings with episode numbers (not sure if we should include the episodes themselves until then, as general WP:TV convention is to only include an episode in the list if we already have at least two pieces of information). nyuszika7h (talk) 22:14, 29 July 2017 (UTC)
 * You can just copy and paste what you have into List of Backstage episodes. It's currently a redirect. Amaury ( talk &#124; contribs ) 00:32, 30 July 2017 (UTC)
 * He loses the revision history if he does that – he's better off doing the requested move: they'll just delete the redirect in processing that. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 01:12, 30 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Fair point I did not think of. Amaury ( talk &#124; contribs ) 01:14, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

OTRS notice at the top of talk page—source link problem
I noticed the source link from freshtvinc.com no longer works - returns 404 error - but an archived version is available. MPFitz1968 (talk) 08:58, 21 July 2017 (UTC)
 * I've also added that source (the archived version) to the article as an inline source. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 16:04, 21 July 2017 (UTC)

Production codes
Since this is a serial show where you can't just move around episodes and production codes always follow airing order, I think the production code column is not strictly necessary. nyuszika7h (talk) 09:34, 21 July 2017 (UTC)
 * I've gone ahead and removed the production codes per this. Gives us more room, and because we have more room, I've restored what the title column's width was before since "Twelve Hours to Showtime" was wrapping and removed the wrapping for "Restart's" writers, but feel more than free to restore any of that if you still believe there are possible issues. Amaury ( talk &#124; contribs ) 14:42, 21 July 2017 (UTC)

Season 2 air dates
We need to make a decision here, on which date we want to use for the "premiere dates" for the last 24 episodes of season #2. Zap2It lists it as September 15, based on an apparently one month-long "preview" of the series by ABC (via OnDemand and their app) in Australia. The series was then released by Netflix in the United States on September 30.

The issue here – should a month-long "preview" "count" as the true premiere date of these episodes, or should the (year-long?) release by Netflix count instead?

An added complication is that Zap2It backs using the September 15 date, though I cannot find a good secondary source to verify this date. OTOH, I can't find a good secondary source for the Netflix season #2 release either...

Thoughts? --IJBall (contribs • talk) 21:44, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
 * We've got more complications now with an upcoming episode on January 23, despite the renewal source saying 30 episodes for season two. Amaury ( talk &#124; contribs ) 23:02, 14 January 2018 (UTC)

Requested move 29 October 2018

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: moved (page mover nac) Flooded  with them hundreds  13:20, 5 November 2018 (UTC)

– As per other recent precedents, it makes far more sense to disambiguate these two articles "by country" under WP:NCTV, on WP:RECOGNIZABILITY grounds. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 14:49, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Backstage (2016 TV series) → Backstage (Canadian TV series)
 * Backstage (2000 TV series) → Backstage (South African TV series)
 * Support - per nom and recent move discussions. --Gonnym (talk) 17:30, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Support. I recognize that we don't have a clearcut consensus on the question of disambiguating TV series by year vs. by country, but my position remains that by country is more relevant, useful and recognizable in most instances. Being unfamiliar with either of these TV series (I may be Canadian, but I'm much closer in age to the Zoomer Media demographic than the Family Channel demographic), I have no way of knowing which is the one I'm looking for if they're disambiguated by year — whereas if they're disambiguated by country, the distinction is clear. Disambiguating by year should be a second resort in instances where disambiguating by country is insufficient (e.g. Brothers and Sisters (1979 TV series) vs. Brothers & Sisters (2006 TV series), which wouldn't be distinguished by "American" as they were both American series), but it really, truly shouldn't be the first go-to point of disambiguation, because it doesn't clearly communicate which topic is which to a reader who doesn't already know which topic is which. Bearcat (talk) 18:10, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Your view is essentially my view – we disambiguate "by year" primarily when we can't disambiguate "by country" under WP:NCTV... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 18:13, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
 * If things were easy to change in Wikipedia, making WP:NCTV prioritize by-country disambiguating would be my preference. --Gonnym (talk) 21:21, 29 October 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Series end date
made a bold edit a while ago, which I agreed with. However, I only just now realized that, while trying to copy-edit, that according to List of Backstage episodes, the last episode was on May 25, 2018. So... Amaury ( talk &#124; contribs ) 17:16, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
 * it is in the text of 'Season #2' above the table at the LoE article: The season was released on Netflix in the United States on September 30, 2017.[34] So, the entire season was released on that date on Netflix. It looks like the UK and Canada aired the final 15 episodes of season #2 sometime well after that. But it was initially released on Sept. 30, 2017. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 17:19, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
 * They are still considered original airings, though. It's like Star Falls. The entire first season was released on June 1 on the Nickelodeon website, app, etc., but the season end date is still listed as September 2, as that's when it last aired. So the question for Backstage becomes: Do we go by last aired (TV) or last released (online)? Amaury ( talk &#124; contribs ) 17:25, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
 * For Backstage we should definitely go with the "released on Netflix" date – the episodes have been widely available internationally long before they aired in Canada. Netflix releases are a much "bigger deal" than Nick releasing episodes early on their app (which is worthy of a 'note', but not of being used as a "release date". --IJBall (contribs • talk) 17:31, 4 November 2018 (UTC)

Regarding availability on Netflix
changed a sentence in the lede, per this edit, that went from reading "The entire second season was released internationally on Netflix on September 30, 2017" to "The series was also released on Netflix on September 30, 2017", which is not true. The first season of the show was available on Netflix long before September 30, 2017, and I remember making a comment about it back in July 2017 on 's talk page ( - note I was talking about how some Disney Channel shows were NOT on Netflix at the time, but I clearly indicated that season 1 of Backstage was available on Netflix). While this was based on my observation of available shows at the time, and I did start watching season 1 there (also watched on Disney Channel when it ran there), I probably could come up with some press release indicating when it was added to Netflix. As for season 2, I'm not exactly sure, but September 30, 2017 sounds right. MPFitz1968 (talk) 17:49, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
 * I have no idea when the series was released on Netflix. I just want it to be acknowledged that the second season wasn’t released internationally, as it wasn't, at least here in the UK. Would there be any way to find out when the series was released on Netflix, and in what territories? – DarkGlow (talk) 18:04, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
 * I am having a hard time (or should I say impossible) trying to find info about when Backstage was released at least to Netflix USA, either season 1 or 2. Likely one of those quiet adds that doesn't get reported in outlets like Hollywood Reporter or USA Today (or even lesser known outlets, where they announce shows/movies coming to, or leaving, Netflix). All I do know is that season 1 was released long before September 30, 2017 to Netflix USA, at least. MPFitz1968 (talk) 18:25, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
 * I would advise rewording that then, to avoid the use of the word "internationally". But I agree with MPFitz1968's concerns that your changes went too far the other way... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 19:46, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Was looking in the LoE article, and season 2 became available on Netflix in the US on/about September 30, 2017, as reported by actress Mckenzie Small . It's a small bulleted note at the beginning of the season 2 section. Didn't make mention of international release. MPFitz1968 (talk) 09:45, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

Decided to update the sentence in the article again, but is still dubious. I decided to change the tag to citation needed, though, as there is a lack of definitive sources about its run on Netflix worldwide (the September 30, 2017 season two premiere on Netflix is at least for the US, but still doesn't address its availability or lack thereof in other parts of the world). On a separate, but related, note ... season one is no longer available on Netflix (ended its run sometime in July 2019), and season two is scheduled to be pulled at the end of September 2019. MPFitz1968 (talk) 16:24, 31 August 2019 (UTC)