Talk:Backstreet Boys discography

Sales
The sales data on this page are positively incorrect and unresourced. Here are the ones found via the net:

http://www.mp3.com/news/stories/5070.html&ref_id=170877&ref_type_id=1 Worldwide: 87m Never Gone: 2m

http://music.barnesandnoble.com/search/product.asp?z=y&ean=12414177926 Backstreet Boys: 13m

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/showbiz/1468141.stm Back n Blue: 6m

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Backstreet-Boys-Has-Been-Certified-Platinum-6824.shtml Never Gone: 3m

http://arts.enotes.com/contemporary-musicians/backstreet-boys-biography Backstreet Boys: 11m

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1477802/bio Worldwide: 80m

http://www.livedaily.com/news/1862.html Millenium: 30m

http://www.fyiottawa.com/cgi-bin/niveau2.cgi?s=arts&p=42154.html&a=1 Back n Blue: 14m

http://www.theage.com.au/news/music/backstreets-back-alright/2005/09/05/1125772450951.html Worldwide: 73m

http://special.time.net.my/time4u/music/article.cfm?ID=159 Worldwide: 73m

http://mal_pal_69.tripod.com/id17.htm Millenium: 30m

http://backstreetboysblog.donyell.net/?m=200508 Never Gone: 3m 60.234.242.196 09:41, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

http://www.mediatraffic.de/albums-2005.htm - Never Gone #25 best selling album of 2005 - 2.2m 60.234.242.196 20:58, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

http://www.newmusicfriday.com/?nmf=20050513 - total sales of 75m, but this is before Greatest Hits and Never Gone. Therefore adding these, this comes to 84m. All this data is saying the same thing, total worldwide sales of approx. 85m. There is no (non clone) site that gives a higher figure. 60.234.242.196 09:53, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Backstreet Boys (US) self titled Album. This was released ONLY in the USA, and was credited 14 x Platinum, so how (how!) can anyone claim it sold 25m. The album Backstreet Boys Back was released internationally excluding the USA, and only went 2 x platinum in the UK, so how (how!) can anyone claim it also sold 25m. All sites I have visited show one sales figure combining the totals (14m and looks like 11m internationally) to equate to 25m. So, either these can be counted together or separately, but NOT 25m each.60.234.242.196 09:53, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

http://www.bsb-brasil.com/site/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=21&Itemid=39 is a clone of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Backstreet_Boys_awards You can check the history to see that Kmnmo inflated the sales figures on this, then once this site updated from wikipedia, then referenced it. This CANNOT be used 60.234.242.196 10:04, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

http://www.lyricsystem.com/backstreet-boys/ is a clone of the Backstreet Boys main wikipedia page, but is very old. This has since been cleaned up and the fictional figures have been removed. This CANNOT be used 60.234.242.196 10:11, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

http://www.ukmix.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=901528#901528 is a forum where User Kmnmo used an existing forum page, increased the sales figures for BSB then referenced it back into wikipedia. Here is the correct forum: http://www.ukmix.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=33707. 60.234.242.196 21:20, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

http://www.popdirt.com/modules.php?name=News&file=com&sid=46037 is a forum, and zero referencing to where data came from. And if anyone bothers to actually read the comments are even research any of the figures, they are not even close to real sales. Anyone can put any figures they want on a forum, then we are expected to believe them? Wikipedia is about sourcing reliable, verifiable data. This is NOT such a case. This link cannot be used. 60.234.242.196 21:19, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Request for Comment: Backstreet Boys Sales Figures
This is a dispute about consistant editing of this page with unsourceds sales figures
 * Statements by editors previously involved in dispute

146.171.254.66 20:55, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Consistant reversing of sales data that is referenced to references that are wiki clones.
 * Repetitive comments to Users talk page saying this cannot be used as a source and ignored.
 * Probable issue with communication with User as attempts by User to make comments is broken English.

Millennium Sales
You have noted that the 30 million figure is from 1999, and are making an assumption that as it is now 2007, they must have sold another 10 million, matching the reference you found. But this is an assumption, and these are not allowed on wikipedia. I have already mentioned that the link you have found which states 40 million is also non credible, when compared to all others. I will also attempt to show you that their sales have not been good over the past 6 years, and hope you will learn from this and stop re-editing on your beliefs. Millennium and BSB was a major hit in the USA, and it counted for 40% of global sales, so let us use the US market as an example: In December 1999 Millennium had sold 9.4 million. By end of 2000, this was 11.7m. By end of 2001, this was 12.0 million, and they were awarded 13 x Platinum even though they sold only 12 million. By end of 2003 it was 12.06 million. By the end of 2006 it was 12.1 million. Therefore in their biggest market they have sold only 0.4 million in the past 6 years. In the past 5 years after their last creditation in 2001 they have sold only 0.1 million. I am hoping that you can now see that the data makes it totally impossible for another 10 million to be sold, thus 30m is the best figure to use, and it is referenced so often by all sources. 60.234.242.196 10:25, 21 March 2007 (UTC)


 * wrong link posted. 2003 sales here: 60.234.242.196 09:11, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia policy - Millennium Sales
Part of the wikipedia policy on ensuring accurate dat, is for verifiable sources to be used, and that concensus is also used. Therefore if all sites say one fact, and another source goes against said concensus, then it is not considered a verifiable resource. Here is from the internet - BBC News 20 million worldwide (21 January 2000), AJ News  30 million, Geocities  30 million, allpop.com (Toronto Sun)  30 million, Interlink Media  40 million, Entertainment Wire  28 million, Backstreet Net  21 MILLION, Amazon.com  20 million, BK  22 million. The concensus is therefore that it has sold 20 - 30 million worldwide 60.234.242.196 23:50, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

THE 40 MILLION CLAIM IS CRAZYYY!!!!
 * totally agree with this sales are 20-30 MILLION (i would say 24 million approximately but anyway......)

--85.75.116.184 (talk) 19:39, 21 November 2007 (UTC)


 * added the 'dubious' tag - as all links state below given reference. I can add that also on the United World Chart list. that it is #55 on the list, amoungst albums that have sold far less than 30 million ... An alternative listing has it as largest selling album of 1999 with 23 million sold. 60.234.242.196 (talk) 02:35, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Black & Blue sales
Once again, the data is incorrect. You have referenced 3 sites that are quoting the same source, and as said before, these are forums where the data is disputed. Therefore before changing again, please actually reseach. As I have shown, 30 million is a credible figure for Millennium. Although some say this figure is also inflated. So, let us look at sales figures compared to Millenium. In the USA - the biggest market, Black & Blue sold only 60% of the sales for Millennium. In the 2nd biggest market of the UK, Black & Blue sold only 100,000 copies. This is 30% of what Millenium achieved. Look at Germany, another stronghold for BSB, Millenium sold 200,000 under Roughtrade label, and 300,000 under Zomba label, whereas Black and Blue sold 200,000 only = 40%. Another one - Australia. Millennium sold 210,000 whereas Black and Blue sold 70,000. Again, 30%. You can see that sales for Black & Blue would be closer to 50% of Millennium NOT 80% as your figure of 24 million suggests. I have therefore reverted it. 60.234.242.196 10:50, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

I refer you to the 2001 IFPI Recording Association for 2001. On page 5 it states that Black & Blue was the 10th biggest chart topping album of the year. If you research the sales for an album that was similar i.e. Madonna's - Music. This sold 13m worldwide (refer links to this on the Madonna Discography discussion page), Red Hot Chili Peppers - Californication has sold 15m to date. , Eminem's The Marshall Mathers LP, which did far better than Black and Blue, sold 19m to date. This once again is showing that Black and Blue sales 'are likely' to be in the same vicinity, and NOT 24m. 60.234.242.196 22:20, 31 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Now I totally agree here!! black and blue was a hit ok but it has sold way less than 24 million. its actual sales are less than 13 million if you add certifications... i mean come on people BE LOGIC. these sales are totaly inflated! if u want put its sales to 15 million but i cant accept that it has sold 25 million. If blackand blue has sold 25 million the mj's thriller has sold 500 million!!! if we inflate sales so much then we destroy wikipedia pages since u destroy their purpose, to inform people!

--Mysterious Spy 14:53, 15 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Your research is well made; however, that does not compensate for the fact that your whole claim is basically speculation and what is "likely." We can't accept that. I also disagree that the sources given are disputed - they actually quote official sales data and some are confirmed by the official website and members of the band. Aran|heru|nar 05:50, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

discussion from talkpage
Refer Best-selling albums in the United States since Nielsen SoundScan tracking began. Millennium (Backstreet Boys album) has sold 0.12 million in past 5 years in BSB's biggest market. Backstreet Boys (US album) has sold 0.8 million in the same period. So you are wanting everyone to believe that their average selling album has sold an additional 9 million in the same period, and without supply evidence. 60.234.242.196 01:31, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Never Gone sales
the following was referenced as a source: *Worldwide Sales: 13 million+ This cannot be used for the following reasons. Firstly, it is a discussion group, not a verifiable source. Secondly, even if you read the discussions, you find that the person who made the claim did so by reading it on answers.com, which is a clone of wikipedia, and is also not allowed. Therefore reversing this. 60.234.242.196 21:20, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

OMG WHAT ARE YOU PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT!!!!!!???
These sales are completely false.


 * Backstreet boys cannot has sold more than 6 million (only gold in the UK(100.000) no release in the US. AND IM SAYING TOO MUCH ( pesonally i believe that this album has sold WAY LESS THAN 5 MILLIONS ABOUT 4 MILLIONS...!!!)


 * Backstreet boys '97 has sold about 12 millions (only US release)


 * Backstreet's Back has sold approximately 25 million (no US release so i would say that actual sales are below the 20 million mark but anyway...)


 * Millenium THIS ALBUM HAS NOT SOLD 40 MILLION IT HASNT EVEN SOLD 30 MILLION . i mean it went very well in the US (13xPlatinum) but it has kinda flopped in the UK (its 1xPlatinum certification is very low compared to Backstreets back 4xPlatinum certification there) its sales are less than 28 million (i would put its sales to 26 million) BY ADDING WORLD WIDE CERTIFICATIONS U GET 24 MILLION COPIES WORLDWIDE!!!! NO COMMENTS!!!!!!!!!put 30 millions if u want ! but 40 million is dangerously stupid!!!!!!!! people use your brains for gods sake!!!


 * Black and Blue first of all i thought that it had gone only 5 times platinum in the US! how did it suddently go 8xplatinum!?! WEIRD! ok only gold in the UK... sales are approximately 15 million (way less than the 25 million that i see here!!) i mean i remember people discussing weather this album should be in the 15 million section and you SUDDENTLY put it to the 25 million sectio??! i cannot understand you!!
 * The hits Chapter one ok weve got a platinum cert in the US and in the UK! people think logically. this album has approximately sold 6 million copies world-wide (the 10 million that u have put is CRAZY!!)


 * Never gone has flopped. i would put its sale to 2.5 millions but the 3 million is ok.

think about it how can their greatest hits (which have gone pletinum in us and uk) have sold 10 million while their "never gone" album which has gone exactly the same in the charts (platinum- gold in the us, uk respectively) has sold less than 3 million their greatest hits sales are way less than 5 million ... anyway

--Mysterious Spy 20:04, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

'STOP INFLATING THE SALES OVER AND OVER AGAIN!! CANT U READ!!??'

--Mysterious Spy (talk) 16:25, 18 November 2007 (UTC)


 * OK let me make this clear to all of you. In order to say that an album has shipped more than 35 millions or more we must be sure that the album has got diamond certifications in the US,CAN UK, EUROPE, GERMANY, FRANCE, JAPAN, AUSTARLIA and more others.the album took diamond certifications only in the US !!


 * Millenum has received 13 platinum awards in the US FOR SHIPPING 12+ millions there. in the rest of america it has sold an additional 1.5-2 million. In Europe the album has shipped approximately 3-4 million copies, in asia abou 1.5-2 millions. Therefore ACTUAL shipments are 18.5-24 millions worldwide. CAPITO!!? i wont accept any 40 million claim. even though the 30 million claim is also extreme and inflated i will accept it. The best thing to put is 26-28 millions.

thx and i hope that this issue is solved already!!

--Mysterious Spy (talk) 19:53, 21 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Please remember that Backstreet Boys enjoyed much more success internationally than in the US, and more so in continental Europe than in the UK. Germany, Italy and Japan are three of their main markets, and they also had immense success in the Philippines, Taiwan and mainland China. You did not seem to have taken into account any of these markets.
 * Moreover, what you thought is relevant. Most of these numbers are taken from the music industry and are widely accepted - the Millennium sales count is affirmed by Brian Littrell himself. You seem to have measured the count simply by original research of a combination of certifications and hearsay - which I cannot accept, and I certainly couldn't accept your removal of sources in the articles of concern. Unless you can cite your sources, I will proceed to revert all your edits. Aran|heru|nar 05:34, 24 November 2007 (UTC)


 * The truth of the matter is that the way wiki is designed, is that it does not matter whether a statement is true, only that it is verifiable. So, although you can see that most sites say Millenium has sold 30 million (or less), the fact that one verifiable source says 40 million makes it valid. The same can be said for the other albums also. The only one that is causing issue is Black and Blue sales data, and that is because the page quoted for 24m is a forum so cannot be used. If another non forum link if found, and is a verified link it can be used - regardless on accuracy. 146.171.254.66 (talk) 05:03, 4 January 2008 (UTC)


 * YOu are delusional. Their biggest market WAS the US and the US is the biggest market in the world, followed by Japan. But even japanese sales would be miniscule in comparison.  The other markets you listed where they were "huge" such as Phillipines, Taiwan, etc. would not even make much of a dent in sales, especially in terms of making it add up to "40 million".  Do you even know the specific sales in these countries? Sales certifications may be original research but they're the most reliable to base off of actual worldwide sales.  Shipments/sales overall will usually be higher than certifications but not much higher, there's no way it sold even close to 40 million. keep dreaming!  China is a huge potential market but most people get pirated copies which don't count and do they even have an official sales tallying body like the RIAA?? NO!  Pisch.  Clerkwheelboiii (talk) 21:07, 12 March 2008 (UTC)


 * yeah!!! i totally agree!!! isnt it logic enough? we were once discussing if the album has sold 30 millions!! most of the debators in previous discussions pages supported that the millenium has sold 27-28 million but after endless conversation it was agreed to put 28-30 million on the page. But suddently that stupid backstreet boys lead singer whatever his name is made that stupid interviw with that i dunno what the name is magazine and said that well u know millenium has sold almost 40 millions to date. u crazy people suddently put 40 million on the page!!! this isn't even VALID!! just because a desperate lead singer of a band, which NOBODY actually remembers and which cannot even go gold in the us anymore (nor in any other country of the world), sais that his album has sold 40 million, doesnt mean that we can actually believe him since the FACTS proove him WRONG!!! now listen to the FACTS and not to the stupid interviws. 13 million in the us + about 1.5 to 2 million in the rest of America + APPROXIMATELY 3 million units in Europe (platinum uk 300.00 + 2xplatinum germany 400.000 + 2xplatinum france 400.000 + platinum spain 100.000 + about 1.5 million from other european countries = 2.700.000 so the album has recieved a 3xPlatinum cert. there)+ about 2 million in asia + about 1 million in other countries and stuff = 20.5 million- 21 million! SO WHY WOULD ANYONE EVER SAY THAT THIS $@%!!# ALBUM HAS SOLD 40 MILLIONS??! IT HAS HARDLY SHIPPED 21 MILLION AND ITS SALES SHOULD ACTUALLY BE LESS THAN 20 MILLIONS! BUT OK I ACCEPT THAT THERE ARE SOME CRAZY-OBSSESED BACKSTREET BOYS FANS OUT THERE WHO CANNOT ACCEPT THAT THEIR FAVOURITE ALBUM HAS SOLD LESS THAN 20 MILLION !! OK!!! PUT 30 MILLION I REALLY DONT CARE! BUT DONT EVEN THINK ABOUT PUTING 40 MILLION CAUSE IT IS TOTALLLY CRAZY TO PUT SMTHNG LIKE THIS!!!!!! END OF DISCUSSION!!

ps. 9dont play with my nerves i too have some limits...)

--Mysterious Spy (talk) 20:46, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Disputed
Sales of 200 million. Finding a reference regardless of source does not make it a verified source. There is concensus in the music industry that BSB have sold 100 million, and this is reflected in the album sales showing. dailymirror source. This is from a valid, reputable source, but does not match all other known references. It (opinion only) is the same data that used to be on this discography page prior to it being referenced and researched. Eight88 (talk) 20:21, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
 * There is no consensus within the music industry, most the sources used for sales figures have nothing to do with music, they are all terrible tabloids or iffy websites. — Realist  2  20:27, 21 November 2008 (UTC)


 * actually agree. misworded. There is concensus in the reported news, references known that the sales are 100m 20:30, 21 November 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Eight88 (talk • contribs)
 * I still strongly dispute there is any "consensus", your more than welcome to put all the sources in the article. Putting all the smaller sources with the lower figure and the bigger sources with the bigger figure. For example 35 million [1][2][3] - 40 million [4]. — Realist  2  20:35, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
 * The reference was misquoted. So amended it. It specified albums sold, whereas reference specifies records sold. Eight88 (talk) 22:45, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
 * That's cool. The 200 figure seems very realistic indeed now. — Realist  2  22:48, 21 November 2008 (UTC)


 * As per resolved dispute [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_23#The_reliability_of_a_source_in_question] for List of best-selling music artists Eight88 (talk) 19:25, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

backstreet boys album sales
it was said in the interviews and if any one of you have bought for the fans dvd its subjected in the video
 * millennium - in 1999 only the worldwide sale ere 19 million and by the end of 2000 it was approx. 21 million
 * this is us - this album has touched the million mark ,, it was confirmed by the backstreet boys via face-book status —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.196.177.155 (talk) 23:25, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

Backstreet's back
The Backstreet's Back article itself states that. In addition, Backstreet's Back is estimated to have sold 28 million copies according to the list of best-selling albums worldwide. It would have been impossible for that album to have sold so much as sources suggest its sales are only around 11-12 million. In addition, the german certifications don't make sense. Backstreet's Back has directly gone platinum without even getting gold status. The debut was already certified platinum (or 2x platinum) so it makes sense that Backstreet's Back's certifications were continued from platinum onward,ie, 2x Platinum-Platinum giving the actual sales203.101.45.224 (talk) 18:31, 10 September 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm not at all sure why you would lessen the number of Platinum-awards for album Backstreet's Back as you have done in this edit especially when you're curious about the gap that lies between the total figure the certifications suggest and the figure that's claimed by sources. Often times record companies inflate sales figures for promotional purposes, and those inflated figures are given to news services who publish them without doing any kind of research on their own. As for certifications, there are many records (Singles, Albums) that are posted without first having been certified Gold, whether in Germany or in any other market. To obtain certifications, artists' record companies must apply for the certifications; in other words, there is a fee that needs to be paid to the Certifying associations, and once a single/album reaches its platinum-status, record companies are not required to pay a separate fee to obtain the Gold certification and then pay another fee for the Platinum-certification; therefore, they choose to pay one fee and get the highest certification. Finally, we are to post certifications as they appear on the websites of certifying associations.--Harout72 (talk) 23:03, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I never said anything about inflating sales figures. In fact, the sources say only 11-12 m as i said. However, most people are combining the sales and giving 28 million. Also, you must have noted that the debut did way better than the 2nd album in Germany. Despite this, according to certifications, Backstreet's Back has sold 2 times more albums than the debut. Another thing is, in Australia, Backstreet's Back never made the year-end charts in 1997. However, it went gold. The debut album, on the other end, made the year end charts in 1997 and yet had no certification. There are many other things that don't add up. For instance, for the Mexican certifications, it is stated that Backstreet's Back was released in 1995 even though it was released in 1997. In the United Kingdom, Backstreet's Back got its silver status a week before it was even released. 203.101.45.224 (talk) 03:41, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

All I can tell you is that music industry-associations in each market operate differently, and we really don't need to know every minor detail of their operations. Minor anomalies such as posting incorrect release-dates as AMPROFON has here (which seems to be corrected later at the highest award status, January 5, 1998) is not to be our main focus, what is important to us is the final/highest certification-awards for an album in question. As for BPI posting the Silver-award before the release-date, is not at all confusing as BPI does certify records in UK based on shipments, and at least 60,000 units of Backstreet Boys seems to have been ordered before the release-date which is why the date of the Silver-award by BPI is as appears. Again, you really should not micro-analyze the details of their operations including ARIA. We only need to look at the highest certification-award for albums, and that should satisfy what we try to achieve here at wikipedia. --Harout72 (talk) 05:07, 11 September 2010 (UTC)


 * What about Germany? Backstreet Boys should have definitely sold more than Backstreet's Back there. You say that the final certification is most important. In Mexico, when Backstreet's Back got certified gold in '1995' it says that its final certification was in 1999. Then when it got its platinum certification in 1999 it says its final certification is in 2000. This indicates that the first and second were two different albums 203.101.45.224 (talk) 06:27, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

It's more correct to say that the highest certification is what should matter. That said, for Backstreet's Back, we only need to look at what the highest posted certification by AMPROFON (Mexico) is, Platinum and Gold = 350,000, and it's very clear, and it should not be confusing, and no it's not two different albums. As for Bundesverband Musikindustrie's (Germany's) certifications, I believe it was you with whom I discussed the certifications for Backstreet Boys, one Platinum by BMG München, and one by Rough Trade. In my opinion, one of the given Platinums for Backstreet Boys is for the International version and the other for U.S. version, the latter of which was also, I assume, released there later, because Music Associations normally do not treat/certify the same title separately when it later gets re-released by another label. They sometimes certify it separately when it's a re-issue released by another label decades later, but it's not normally done when the release-dates of the same title are only months apart. Overall; however, in Europe, Backstreet's Back has sold 5 million+ units, and Backstreet Boys (the international version) has sold 3 million+ units.--Harout72 (talk) 15:32, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
 * As I said, It is absolutely not possible for the US version to be released in Germany. I'm 100% sure of that. Btw Nielsen states Backstreet Boys have sold 4.2 m copies in Canada. Is it combination of album and video sales because they have certifications of only 31.5 m. Even then I doubt they have sold more than 1m videos. So is 4.2 m albums + videos+singles or only albums and videos?203.101.45.224 (talk) 02:03, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

What makes you 100% sure of the US version not having been released in Germany? Backstreet Boys' US certified sales only is: Albums=37,000,000, Singles=3,100,000, Videos=1,400,000. Their Canadian certified sales is: Albums=3,150,000, Videos=340,000. I am not sure where you've seen the 4.2 million in Canadian sales, but it looks like it's for album-sales only. Backstreet Boys' certified sales from the markets which offer certification-databases is well over 65,000,000.--Harout72 (talk) 19:52, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
 * This is where i saw the Canadian sales its 4.081 not 4.2. Also, what does Backstreet Boys' certifications in the US have to do with an album not being released in Germany? 203.101.45.224 (talk) 01:09, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

Your statement --->Is it combination of album and video sales because they have certifications of only 31.5 m, I was under the impression that you thought Backstreet Boys' entire certified sales is 31.5 million; therefore, I pointed out that the US certified sales only is way above that. No offense but I think you might want to re-check what you type before hitting the Save button. Because you also did mistype the Canadian sales above, 4.2 million. By the way, the 4,081,000 is for all units that Backstreet Boys have sold since Neilsen Soundscan was launched, Singles, Albums etc.--Harout72 (talk) 04:25, 13 September 2010 (UTC)


 * But that still doesn't expain Backstreet Boys getting certified platinum twice. Then, the European certification is also too high. Backstreet's Back total sales in Europe come only about 2 million through certifications. Sales in regions which dont certify albums may give half a million copies more. In addition, Millennium has sold nearly as much as Backstreet's Back in Europe but yet Millennium has only 2x Platinum certification. How can Backstreet's Back sell 3 million copies more than Millennium if certifications show that their sales are nearly equal? Now if you do the reduction 5-3 you get 2 which makes more sense than 5x Platinum 203.101.45.224 (talk) 06:18, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

I don't think you really understand how the certification-schemes are operated. One thing I can assure you of is that IFPI Europe or any other associations do not inflate certifications. And because some markets do not offer certification-databases, doesn't mean they do not certify, for instance Italy, Spain, the certification-award-levels of both were Platinum=100,000, Gold= 50,000 before the music piracy began, and there are many other markets including the Czech Republic, Hungary, Russia, Ukraine, and many others, the combination of the sales of all those would bring the actual sales of Backstreet's Back to 5 million+ mark for the entire Europe. Also keep in mind that IFPI Europe doesn't certify albums based on what the certification-status for each album represents in each market, IFPI Europe certifies albums based on sales submitted by each European market. Consequently, if an album released in Germany in 1997, which has sold 1,240,000, and in Bundesverband Musikindutrie's database, it shows as 2x Platinum for sales of 1,000,000, we won't see the remainder units before it reaches the next certification level. The same goes for all other markets. Besides that, the record companies in each market respectively, may not have paid the necessary fee for the associations to post the next platinum-award. That said, the actual sales in Germany could be 1,500,000 but Bundesverband Musikindustrie will not post the 3rd Platinum for Backstreet's Back until it receives the fee from the record company. Therefore, IFPI (Europe)'s 5x Platinum may seem a lot more than it should be. I think we've covered in this discussion everything that needed to be covered.--Harout72 (talk) 15:46, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
 * As far as certifications go, Backstreet's Back has sold 1 m in germany, 0.6m in UK 50,000 in austria 0.1m in switzerland 0.1 m in belgium 50,000 in finland 160,000 is sweden 120000 for netherlands 0.1 m for france and 100,000 for poland. Now, for the countries that didnt certify then, Spain is the only country where sales were high,ie, others like Hungary Russia Ukraine etc etc as you mentioned may have a platinum equivalent of only 10,000 or 20,000 copies which is not a lot. So if you had say 500,000 for uncertified regions and an extra 500-700k for extra sales after certification eg uk sales may be anywhere between 600-900k and german sales maybe anywhere between 1m and 1.25 m as you pointed out it crosses just a little over 3 million  203.101.45.224 (talk) 06:16, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

Hungary's certification-award-levels before December 1997 were Platinum=100,000, Gold=50,000, see it here, Ukraine's award-levels for foreign artists also were Platinum=100,000, Gold=50,000. And this is what the European available markets' certified sales are for Backstreet's Back:


 * Germany: 1,000,000 (This could be some 1,240,000 in actual sales)
 * UK: 600,000 (This could be 850,000)
 * France: 100,000 (This could be 190,000)
 * The Netherlands: 200,000 (This could be 290,000)
 * Sweden: 160,000 (This could be 230,000)
 * Belgium: 100,000 (this could be 140,000)
 * Switzerland: 100,000 (This could be 140,000)
 * Finland: 49,334
 * Austria: 50,000 (This could be 90,000)
 * Poland: 100,000 (This could be 140,000)

And based on the certified sales of only those markets above, we have 2,499,334, which easily could be 3,360,000 in actual sales just for those markets above. Bear in mind that we are missing sales of dozens of European markets, including Italy, Spain, Denmark, the Check Republic, Hungary, Ukraine, Portugal, Greece, Turkey, Luxenburg etc, etc. And the combination of all should bring it to 5 million mark. By the way, Spain may not offer a certification-database, for earlier years, but I assure that both Spain and Italy have been certifying since early '90s. I think it's time to stop this futile discussion. --Harout72 (talk) 15:52, 14 September 2010 (UTC)


 * You are taking the maximum for each market and yes, it could be 3,360,000 but it is most likely around 2.8-3 mil. For instance, in the UK, it has probably sold something more like 650,000- 700000 rather than 850000. Spain had 100,000 for platinum and Backstreet's Back may have gone maybe 4x or 5x platinum there. The other countries=i still dont think will add up even to a million. Also, as I have pointed out, Backstreet's Back is only a few hundred thousand copies ahead of Millennium, so how can it be 3 million copies more than Millennium? In Norway, for instance, it went #1 and yet got no certification. In Finland, it did not do well on the charts and yet, sold much more than Millennium (49,334). In fact their debut did better in Finland and yet its sales stand only at 21000. Look at the Swedish certifications. Backstreet's Back has gone platinum without getting gold first. You earlier explained to me that they had to pay some charge fees but then Backstreet's Back is the only album/single on the list that has directly gone platinum. It can't just be a coincidence and the fact that no other album has directly gone platinum clearly shows that IFPI don't certify like Germany. Another coincidence was that their debut went platinum just a week after Backsreet's Back release (It wasnt even charting then) . This clearly shows that their debut album went only gold and the 'platinum' given to their debut is in fact Backstreet's Backs gold certification 203.101.45.224 (talk) 16:07, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

We don't know whether the actual sales from those markets above is 3.3 million or 3 million and I don't like assuming. The fact and the matter is that IFPI has Backstreet's Back at 5 million units and that is all we should believe without questioning it. By the way, Italy is a bigger market than Spain, meaning at least 300,000 - 500,000 units could be expected from that market alone. And another 200,000 - 400,000 from Spain and the rest of the 5 million+ could be covered by markets like Hungary (100,000), Ukraine (100,000), Denmark (50,000), Portugal, Romania, Bulgaria, Greece, Turkey, etc. etc. As I mentioned earlier IFPI doesn't exaggerate the number of Platinums, also, I believe I have answered all you questions meticulously. Any further concerns you might have, please contact IFPI and ask your questions directly to them. Finally, we are to state certifications as they appear in the web sites of the music associations respectively.--Harout72 (talk) 23:45, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
 * How do i contact them? 203.101.45.224 (talk) 01:47, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

See their contact information here.--Harout72 (talk) 03:21, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

Backstreet Boys Canadian chart peak positions
There are two different Canadian charts that the Backsteet Boys have chart positions on. One is the Billboard Canadian Singles Chart, and the other is the RPM Canadian Singles Chart. The RPM chart was the equivalent of the Billboard Hot 100 in the U.S. Their chart positions in that magazine have legitimate sources. Because they are both equal charts, I added the peak positions of the songs that appear on that chart. Some songs that don't appear on the 'Billboard C.S.C. have charted on the RPM'' chart, so I feel they should be included.


 * You need to sign your comments. It would be nice if you didn't engage yourself in edit-warring. I asked you very politely in the edit summary to provide the exact page of the RPM which supposedly contains the position No.47 for "I'll Never Break Your Heart", instead you reverted my edits again without pointing out the page. Yes, RPM is a reliable source and I am not questioning that. Now, we currently have three sources supporting the Canadian singles positions, 1 (which doesn't contain the No.47 position), 2 (which also doesn't contain the position No.47], and the source for RPM doesn't seem to contain the position you insist on adding.--Harout72 (talk) 00:55, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

For the Fans
Can you help me understand why is it not notable and where is the discussion? I can't find it here. Krystaleen (talk) 15:36, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
 * For the Fans was sold only at Burger King outlets and not at retail stores. It was more like a buy a meal, get a CD free or something like that than a typical commercial album. The discussion is here KingdomHearts25 (talk) 15:40, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks. That's more of a question instead of a discussion lol but I get what you mean. Don't you think it should be mentioned somewhere though? The only thing linking to it is the navigational box, I think.--Krystaleen (talk) 16:23, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

It could be mentioned in the main article, but I think it's better to just leave it out of the discography. KingdomHearts25 (talk) 17:00, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Anyway don't you think the playlist compilation thing is less official than the others? I mean I don't even think it was the group who released it. The main article also refers to it as the "second greatest hits album" but I kind of disagree. The official website backstreetboys.com doesn't even list it.--Krystaleen (talk) 17:34, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
 * The Playlist compilation was officially released by Legacy Recordings not only for the Backstreet Boys, but for other artists as well and it is available in stores. Hung Medien also recognizes it KingdomHearts25 (talk) 18:08, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Exactly, the fact that it's a series of compilation for many artists and not a release by the group/their label is the very reason I think it's not notable. But I see other discography pages listed it so I guess it's notable after all. Weird though.--Krystaleen (talk) 02:06, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

I put For The Fans in the Home video section because I'm pretty sure it belongs there. Even though it was distributed by Burger King it is still released through their label Zomba and thus a notable release. I'm actually also contemplating making a new section called "Live albums" for the audio CD portion of For the Fans and A Night Out with the Backstreet Boys. What do you think?-- Krystaleen 05:29, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Sure, go ahead. KingdomHearts25 (talk) 15:36, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay, thank you.-- Krystaleen 04:05, 30 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm putting this up for FL nomination again and I don't think seeing For the Fans once again (after already being deleted) is going to go down well with the reviewers. Some may argue that it's notable enough, others won't. So, to be on the safer side, atleast until the reviewing is over, I'm removing For the Fans from both the sections. KingdomHearts25 (talk) 18:09, 1 July 2012 (UTC)
 * oh okay then.-- Krystaleen 18:31, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

This Is Us sales
Is there really no data about this besides the US 98k one? In Japan it's gone platinum so can we add the number? How many copies is platinum in Japan?

Edit: found some numbers on the album's article This Is Us (Backstreet Boys album) Can these be used? --  Krystaleen  12:11, 4 August 2012 (UTC)
 * One platinum record in Japan indicates shipments of 250,000 copies. The figure in the article only shows the minimum number of copies that This Is Us has shipped and not the actual number of copies that the album has sold, or for that matter, shipped. If you can find a source which shows the album's actual sales figures, we could add it to the list. KingdomHearts25 (talk)  15:26, 4 August 2012 (UTC)
 * So everything in that table are only shipment and not sales? Like the Canada's 15,000 and UK's 5000? That's too bad.--  Krystaleen  03:33, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

The Japan figure is for shipments but I'm not sure about the Canada and the UK figures. They were probably just added by some random IP as I can't see any sources for them. KingdomHearts25 (talk) 09:57, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Has there been a holiday song that chart on the regular chart?
Legit question. I never paid attention to that before. I honestly think that Christmas single shouldn't even be put in the same table as the other singles.--  Krystaleen  03:38, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Anyone? I want to separate it into its own table, probably along with their first Christmas single back in 1996.--  Krystaleen  08:31, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

Should The Essential series, playlist series etc be featured here?
I mean, they're not artist-driven releases and neither album is mentioned anywhere on their official website, nor do the group itself ever acknowledge that those releases even exist.--  Krystaleen  14:21, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

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Editing the as featured artist list under artist
I'm really sorry but I seem to have merged the other chartered songs list with "Let it be me" under featured artist. I have tried but can't seem to fix this. Please help in fixing this mistake. My apologies again. Anantnambiar (talk) 15:46, 11 September 2019 (UTC)

Chart columns of albums
According to current WP:DISCOGSTYLE, column amount of charts should be no more than 10. Can one of the chart column be removed? -- BrandNew Jim Zhang   (talk)  13:33, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

Christmas Album Coming Up
So the Backstreet Boys are finally releasing their first-holiday album and had already started working on it since March. Brian had given the fans a sneak preview of the songs called "Together" and Nick has confirmed another holiday classic "Oh Holy Night". Should I add the Christmas album to the list until its released?173.56.58.244 (talk) 23:18, 23 July 2021 (UTC)