Talk:Backward class

what does "meat eating" have to do with backward castes?

There is a impression in the world that Hindus are Vegiterians. I just wanted to point out that majority of the traditional hindus in all except a few brahmin sub-Castes do have the meat as part of their diet. Kashmiri brahmins serve lamb as part of their wedding feasts. Saraswat brahmins have fish as their staple food. In many festivals after the harvest season, even the meat dishes were offered to Devi and celebrated.TT 01:22, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Even urbanized literate communities such as Ckp (Bal Thackeray belongs to this community) offer meat as Prased on certain festivals.

Vote bank?
I'm not saying that politicians aren't likely to try to use ANYONE as a vote bank, but we might want to provide some justification for the statement. It does seem to imply that 'backward caste' Indians are nothing more than a vote bank, or that they vote en bloc. Needs more body. - BalthCat 03:04, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Merge?
This article appears to be on the same topic as Other Backward Class, which is a more developed article. I think I personally lean towards deleting this article and re-directing. However, I leave this open in case anyone feels otherwise or wants to attempt to merge.--Qball6 20:12, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

I would also delete and redirect, but as stubby as this article is, it still touches on subjects the other one doesn't. Someone familiar with the topic should merge this content to the other article. -- Coffee2theorems | Talk 19:03, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
 * sorry that this reply is really late. But the terms BC adnOBC are (slightly) differnet. The BCs form the lowest rung in the caste pyramid. OBCs are generally considered to be those castes which may not fall into the lowest rung (and need not necessarily have suffered the same humiliation historically)but fulfil other criteria such as economic, and social backwardness. --Deepak D'Souza (talk • contribs) 21:24, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Pejorative term?
Is most of the English speaking world, saying that "these rural laborers are very backward" would be pejorative and derogatory and not acceptable in Wikipedia. Wiktionary defines it as "Reluctant or unable to advance," "undeveloped or unsophisticated." No article would be allowed to keep such a description of African-Americans or Hispanics in the U.S. Such usage has been avoided by mainstream media since the 1960's. Why should it be allowed here? The beliefs of a religion are not automatically NPOV and acceptable. Is it actually acceptable to say such things in newspapers of general circulation in India? In the U.S. such terminology would only be found in papers from such organizations as the Ku Klux Klan or Christian Identity. The origin of the use of the term needs to be explained if it has a coined meaning other than the obvious one.Edison 16:30, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Delete the backward/forward castes pages!
I am aware that the distinction backward/forward castes is still a widely and frequently used term in India and that different poeple understand different things by it, but in my opinion it does not qualify to be included in Wikipedia because it is an extremely pejorative distinction and only perpetuates the unequal and (negatively) discriminating power relations between the have and have-nots in India. Adivasis and Dalits have been fighting against this dichotomisation of Indian society since independence, when the caste system was officially abolished and its provisions condemned to be racist and worsening the lives of the majority of Indians. I therefore deeply regret that this more than awkward and inappropriate distinction found its way into Wikipedia and I strongly suggest its deletion. 62.178.209.203 15:02, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

-- I agree that the term "backward caste" itself is highly awkward and inappropriate. Even though it is used by Indian media, internationally this term may be looked down as racist. Secondly, the contents of this article itself donot look genuine. By citing these castes as "vote banks" and naming lot of politicians, the article seems politically biased which is again against Wikipedia guidelines. And finally, the definition of "backward caste" is incorrect and misleading. Backward caste people are only "historically disadvantaged" and not "group of people in India who generally live off income derived from self employment on caste-dependent skills assignment" as described in this articla. It is indeed sad that this article found way into Wikipedia and I strongly propose its deletion.
 * Please see WP:IDONTLIKEIT. You may not like the term but it is very commonly used to collectively reffer to disadvantaged sections of India. It appears in newspaper articles and government pblication, academic articles on a daily basis. What is pejorative about it. Just because it doesnt fit into your world view. Please see WP:SOAP and WP:NOT to understand wht wikipedia is about. --Deepak D'Souza (talk • contribs) 04:48, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

While I agree that we should use the term that's officially and widely used, whether we like it or not, it's simply not true that objections to it are purely subjective or relativist (I take it that that's what the incomplete sentence "Just because it doesnt fit into your world view" is supposed to convey). The term "backward", used of people or groups of people, is pejorative; that's just a fact about the acceptation of the word. Look in any dictionary. --Mel Etitis ( Talk ) 09:01, 17 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Pejorative?? I dont think so.Terms like "nigger and "kalia" are pejorative but not a well accepted term like Backward Casts Forward Castes. After all it is present in many Govt documents forms etc. Rather it seems to have become the latest status symbol in India. What with every group including Upper castes like Jats now trying to get themselves declared backward to reap the benefits of reservations.--Deepak D'Souza (talk • contribs) 09:24, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm sorry, you're simply wrong; "backward", applied to people, countries, etc., is pejorative in English. That it has a special use in certain circles in India doesn't affect that. "Nigger" is sometimes used, by black people, non-pejoratively, but that doesn't make it non-pejorative. --Mel Etitis ( Talk ) 13:45, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Backward in this case means economically backward. What is so pejorative . If a country or a rejion does not enjoy a decent standard of living (for whatever reason) how does calling it backward become pejorative). --Deepak D'Souza (talk • contribs) 06:45, 22 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Why it's pejorative isn't the point; that it is pejorative is beyond question. (You also seem to think that if something is fact, then any way of expressing it must be OK; that's simply not the case.)  --Mel Etitis  ( Talk ) 21:22, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I really dont get what you are trying to say. Do you mean to say that if I come across a village where there are no roads, clinics, schools, water facilites, calling it "backward" would be pejorative?? How?

Im sorry but this statement doesnt make sense if something is fact, then any way of expressing it must be OK. What anyway? calling someone nigger is abusive, but calling him Afro-American is also pejorative? Can you first prove why this term IS pejorative? if it is so then why are so many castes still lining up to have themselves labelled "backward"?--Deepak D'Souza (talk • contribs) 07:47, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

I stated very clearly that I was referring to "backward" as applied to people, countries, etc. &mdash; though, yes, calling a village "backward" is pejorative. Saying that it lacks infrastructure, that it is underdeveloped, etc, are acceptable alternatives. As for the comment that you misunderstood: it's not an excuse for calling someone a nigger to say "but he is black", and it's not an excuse for calling a person or place backward to say "but he is mentally handicapped", or "but it is underdeveloped".

Why do many castes want to be placed in this category? First, are the people involved native English speakers? Secondly, might it be that the political/material advantages outweigh the resentment at being called "backward"?

As for evidence, by the way, in the article on "challenged" in Pocket Fowler's Modern English Usage, ed. Robert Allen (Oxford University Press, 1999), "backward" is identified as a "potentially sensitive or offensive [description] of people". --Mel Etitis ( Talk ) 16:46, 27 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Let see: You stated that it is pejorative. So we are supposed to take your word that it IS pejorative for everyone .That is cleary a case of original research. Can you provide any references to prove that the term "backward castes" which occours every single day in Indian newspapers is pejorative. And as far as the castes involved being native speakers "isnt it more than obvious that most of the legal and constituonal busineess in India is carried out in ENglish. It is silly to assume that the the people who are at the forfront of the reservation demands(who are alwys from the educated sectiuons of the community ) will not know english. --Deepak D'Souza (talk • contribs) 06:38, 28 May 2007 (UTC)


 * No, it's not "my word" &mdash; it's straightforwardly true of English, and can be checked in any decent dictionary or book about the language.
 * 1) Knowing English and being a native speaker are two different things. Your suppositions and rhetoriacl questions, however, are definitely original research.
 * 2) You ignored my final point. --Mel Etitis ( Talk ) 09:05, 29 May 2007 (UTC)


 * let see yesterdays Deccan chornicle, Hyderabd issue headline: "Muslims demand BC status"(incidentaly the leader of the local muslim party is a doctor! So Im sure he understand what BC means in English!). Even the Hindi term is "pichde varg" or "pichde jaatiyan" which means backward castes or backward classes. No difference in the meaning.Most forms in India have tickboxces named SC/ST/BC/OBC etc. And if you have read todays headlines 13 peole have died in violence that was started by Gujjars who wanted their status upgraded from BC to SC. NOw you decide how many people really find the term "pejorative. --Deepak D'Souza (talk • contribs) 07:02, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Backward Caste will be deleted
The Government of India forbids caste based discrimination. The follow article is termed Backward Caste and not Backward Class as mentioned by the Indian Government. Hence should be immeadiately deleted. BalanceRestored 13:06, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

This article is marked HOAX
This term is misinterpreted commonly and does not have any real significance. Kindly provide valid sources to support this article.BalanceRestored 07:21, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Move article to Backward class ?
See proposal and reasoning here. Please add your comments on the linked page, instead of here, to keep the discussion in one place. Abecedare 00:42, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
 * This article has to be merged with Other Backward Class BalanceRestored 06:03, 27 June 2007 (UTC)