Talk:Bacon ice cream/GA1

GA Review
The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.''

Reviewer: Racepacket (talk) 21:34, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Please fix disamb links: CTA and Mustard. No bad links ✅
 * GA review (see here for criteria)


 * 1) It is reasonably well written.
 * a (prose): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
 * The pull quote, which is paraphrased in the lead, is quite strong and graphic. I don't know if it is encyclopedic, but I give an article covering a subject of such gravitas wide leeway. - I have reduced the references to the quote, while leaving it in place. I hope that has reduced the overall strength.  Worm   09:44, 19 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Spelling in lead: "resaurants." ✅
 * comma between "recent concept" and "there" - in general, avoid words like "recent." Can you give a date or year range? ✅
 * "generally perceived to be a sweet food" - do you mean "expected to be" If I ate some spoiled, sour ice cream, I would perceive the flavor correctly, but it would not meet my expectations. ✅
 * "no one would eat."->"no one would willingly eat." ✅
 * If 17 flavors were first tested, how many of the 17 were included in the store's menu? ✅ doesn't say, so I've changed the sentance to reflect what it does say.
 * How can an ice cream that "tastes like butter pecan" be called bacon ice cream? - because it had bacon in it... I've tried to clarify, but generally the ice cream is not "bacon-flavoured", and I've seen no sources to say that it is.
 * comma between "unique flavours" and "has given" ✅
 * "seperating" -> "separating" ✅
 * "on many high end dessert menus."->"on many high-end restaurant dessert menus." ✅
 * "Celebrity Bob Blumer"->"Celebrity chef Bob Blumer" ✅
 * In footnotes the Retrieved dates should all have consistent formats. ✅
 * Put the Los Angeles Times and all other print publications in italics. ✅
 * 1) It is factually accurate and verifiable.
 * a (references): b (citations to reliable sources):  c (OR):
 * How can David Lebovitz be the "publisher" of the website in fn 3?  Perhaps "davidlebovitz.com" is more precise? ✅
 * Chip Hern and Ice Cream Parlour in fn 18 do not match the text of the article. Please change sentence to conform to cited source. ✅ expanded to clarify.
 * 1) It is broad in its coverage.
 * a (major aspects): b (focused):
 * Can you explain where the "bacon flavor" is created? Would it be possible to extract the bacon flavor, just as one extracts vanilla flavor from a bean? ❌ from what I've read the ice cream is not "bacon-flavoured" it just contains bacon. I'm curious as to the "bacon-extract" but I've not read anything regarding it.
 * If possible, add a sourced statement that bacon flavor ice cream is popular in those restaurants which include it on the menu. As good as I can get...
 * Is there any scientific basis for his flavor encapsulation theory? - good question... perhaps I'll write an article on it ;)
 * 1) It follows the neutral point of view policy.
 * Fair representation without bias:
 * 1) It is stable.
 * No edit wars, etc.:
 * 1) It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
 * a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass/Fail:
 * I am placing the article on hold. I will read it again, after you address the above concerns. Thanks, Racepacket (talk) 22:41, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass/Fail:
 * I am placing the article on hold. I will read it again, after you address the above concerns. Thanks, Racepacket (talk) 22:41, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

January 19

 * Consider quoation marks around "flavor encapsulation" to distance Wikipedia from endorsing his theory. ✅
 * There are two segments to bacon - the protein ladden part and the fat ladden part. Do bacon-ice-cream makers trim the fat before adding it to the ice cream mix? Fn 17 asks the question, but I don't know the answer. ✅ I think...
 * There are commercially available products, intended for use as a salad supplement, called Bacon Bits (made from real bacon) or BacOs. BacOs are made from soy flour with artificial and natural flavor added. I am surprised that General Mills can add bacon flavor to soy flour chips but not to ice cream.  This gets back to my question of where is the source of  the "bacon flavor" in natural bacon? Apparently, the flavor comes from aromatic organic compounds that can be extracted using alcohol.  The extracts are sold commercially at a wholesale level. According to fn 11, Blumenthal works with a Swiss firm that sells flavor extracts. According to fn 12,  "Inside he has jars of flavour essences and refined acids, the chemical versions of tastes we know so well." I think the article should explain that "flavor encapsulation" involves the scientific release of flavor extracts as the ice cream melts in the customer's mouth.
 * Well, it sort of does in the block quote from Jay Rayner, but I'll make it more explicit in the Heston Blumenthal section. Bacon is one of the few flavours that can be artificially created using chemicals (WP:OR, my chemistry teacher explained he used to work one of these flavour creating factories, and things kept on tasting like bacon when they didn't want it to), but I haven't seen anyone suggesting the flavouring goes into an ice cream. Bacon ice cream appears to be created by food enthusiasts, who want to experiment with flavours and possibly add the saltiness to exemplify the sweetnes, rather than people who genuinely want an ice cream flavoured like bacon. I have no doubt that an artificially created bacon ice cream flavour could be created... but who would eat it?
 * Obviously, members of WikiProject Bacon.
 * NB, from what I've read, Blumenthal work with Firmenich (the flavour company) generally involves him helping them from a culinary point of view, and them providing aromatic essences to him (Blumenthal has a habit of including a bottle of perfume which compliments his dishes as he believes the smell adds to the flavour.... IMO getting a little too pretentious there...), not to mention the fact that he has a labratory attached to The Fat Duck, allowing experiments with the flavours. I've read a review or two of his recipe, and I've found that people complain about not having the equipment (especially liquid nitrogen) but not a single complaint of not having an ingredient, even though essence of bacon would be fairly hard to get hold of.
 * It can be ordered off the internet at http://www.tharnika.ru/spice/flavors/?idp=eng&id=meet1
 * from Russia? sounds like the sort of thing that would be mentioned in an article... especially when they go on about how much they have to work to get a little liquid nitrogen! The recipe doesn't call for it in any case...


 * You have concluded that Blumenthal's ice cream contains real bacon, but I can't tell that for sure. My reading of the sources suggests that it is bacon-flavored ice cream. Can we clarify the article? Fn 17 suggests that Blumenthal's published recipe is hard to execute, which suggests that in the press of daily kitchen production, he might be tempted to fall back onto flavor extracts.
 * I'm a little worried about this. All the other recipes appear to include bacon in a flavoured ice cream, but Blumenthals does not, as you quite rightly pointed out. He cooks the bacon whole, then soaks it in milk over night, using this milk to make the ice cream. From what I've read, his kitchen works more like a labratory with preparation starting days in advance and I think he'd be quite hypocritcal to start sticking in flavour extracts. Having said that, I've seen no evidence either way. Janet Street Porter admitted she did it in a rush, without the right equipment and her article was basically criticising the amount of work he puts into the simplest of tasks. ✅ - I think, by adding a Heston Blumenthal variation.


 * Can we include a footnote to Blumenthal's recipe for the bacon ice cream if it has in fact been published per Janet Street-Porter? ✅
 * In the pull quote, perhaps add an mdash in front of the attribution line. ✅
 * "at that point you can add your flavoured liquid" - please reword to remove the second person.
 * Identify the location of Blumenthal's restaurant as Bray, Berkshire. ✅
 * "create an ice cream with distinct flavours,"->"create an ice cream with flavours released in time-separated stages," ✅
 * I can't access fn 14 - it gives a dead link.❌ I can still access it with no issue from two different connections, is it a UK only link?

Comments from SmartSE (talk) 13:22, 19 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I know it is a quote from a supposedly reliable source, but there is no such thing as a "single egg molecule". You could consider removing this from the quote.
 * ✅I agree, I have removed it from the quote, can you just double check I've done it correctly?


 * Similarly, I'm not sure this is accurate: "he whisks egg yolks with sugar until the sugar reacts with the proteins in the yolk" the proteins will denature but I'm fairly sure that proteins and eggs won't react when beated. I've looked through my On Food and Cooking which Blumental acknowledges as "one of the greatest cookery books ever written" and which the source mentions, but can't find anything about egg yolks and sugar reacting. Can you rewrite this to match what the source says?
 * ✅My mistake, it says "interact" which for some reason, I read as react (and re-read as react and was about to point out that I matched the source). I've sorted this.
 * Ice cream is actually a colloid, so interact is more appropriate.

*should "over cook" be hyphenated in the Recipe section? Article is greatly improved and meets the criteria. Congratulations. Racepacket (talk) 16:05, 19 January 2011 (UTC)
 * "it melts in customer's mouths." - either singular or plural. Perhaps "it melts in customers' mouths." ✅ and and done