Talk:Baidu Baike/Archive 1

Test of connection form outside of China
zh:User:shizhao from mainland China provides a series of URLs for the test of connection from outside of mainland China. AirBa 15:29, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Test of search engines

 * "民主" (democracy)
 * http://www.baidu.com/s?cl=3&wd=%C3%F1%D6%F7
 * http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&hl=zh-CN&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2006-17,GGLG:zh-CN&q=%E6%B0%91%E4%B8%BB
 * http://www.sogou.com/site?query=%C3%F1%D6%F7&sogouhome=&shuru=shou


 * "江泽民" (Jiang Zemin)
 * http://www.baidu.com/s?ie=gb2312&bs=%C3%F1%D6%F7&sr=&z=&cl=3&f=8&wd=%BD%AD%D4%F3%C3%F1&ct=0
 * http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&hl=zh-CN&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2006-17,GGLG:zh-CN&q=%E6%B1%9F%E6%B3%BD%E6%B0%91
 * http://www.sogou.com/site?query=%BD%AD%D4%F3%C3%F1&searchbutton=+%CB%D1++%CB%F7+&mode=&path=


 * "法轮功" (Falun Gong)
 * http://www.baidu.com/s?wd=%B7%A8%C2%D6%B9%A6&cl=3
 * http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&hl=zh-CN&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2006-17,GGLG:zh-CN&q=%E6%B3%95%E8%BD%AE%E5%8A%9F
 * http://www.sogou.com/site?query=%B7%A8%C2%D6%B9%A6&searchbutton=+%CB%D1++%CB%F7+&mode=&path=

Results

 * AirBa 15:39, 15 May 2006 (UTC), IE user from Taiwan. Result: I can only connect to Google.

Test of Baidu Baike articles

 * http://baike.baidu.com/lemma-php/dispose/view.php/1916.htm
 * http://baike.baidu.com/lemma-php/dispose/view.php/14448.htm
 * http://baike.baidu.com/lemma-php/dispose/search_noitem.php/
 * http://baike.baidu.com/lemma-php/dispose/view.php/6994.htm
 * http://baike.baidu.com/lemma-php/dispose/view.php/1921.htm

Results

 * AirBa 15:39, 15 May 2006 (UTC), IE user from Taiwan. Result: I can browse articles of 人权 (humanrights), 民主 (democracy), 天主教 (Catholic), 文化大革命 (Cultural Revolution). All with contents. "noitem" would lead to a page which says: "Sorry, the article you are looking for cannot be displayed!"("对不起，您所要查看的词条无法显示！").

Wikipedia Signpost
The Wikipedia Signpost internal newspaper for English Wikipedia would like to write more about this story; can anyone provide any additional information or links about Baidu Baike? Updated numbers? How is the site being perceived in China? If they are, in fact, copying articles from the Chinese Wikipedia or other copyrighted sites, could you provide links that show evidence of this? Thank you for your help. &mdash; Catherine\talk 22:39, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Copy vio on the Hu Jintao article, not from Chinese Wikipedia though, compare Hu Jintao on Baike with Hu Jintao on Xinhaunet Tbjablin 03:35, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Also check out 五四运动 versus 五四运动. You need to set the regional Chinese text to 简体 to make the characters match up properly, compare:
 * "5月1日，北京大学的一些学生获悉和会拒绝中国要求的消息. 当天，学生代表就在北大西斋饭厅召开紧急会议，决定5月3日在北大法科大礼堂举行全体学生临时大会. " zh wiki with
 * "5月1日，北京大学的一些学生获悉和会拒绝中国要求的消息. 当天，学生代表就在北大西斋饭厅召开紧急会议，决定5月3日在北大法科大礼堂举行全体学生临时大会. " baidu. Tbjablin 05:49, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
 * The same text appears verbatim on a bunch of other websites so who knows where it originated. Tbjablin 06:00, 15 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Copyleft versus Copyleft is a better example. The whole article has been copied instead of only parts and a google search turns up no other hits. Tbjablin 06:10, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Baidu Baike also copies from Unencyclopedia Chinese section and other less serious sources. For example: However quality of some articles do improve over times. AirBa 15:46, 15 May 2006 (UTC) AirBa 15:46, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
 * 埃贝斯菲尔德共和国
 * 好人 (Nice guy)
 * 批踢踢 (Ptt)

A small test on GFW "bi-directional filter": URL keyword test
There is an article on xys forum (2005) discussing about URL keyword test.

article on xys forum：
 * From Yush on 2005-8-13, 04:37:19:


 * Test: visit any web page in mainland China (except default page such as index.html), for example the cover page of People's Daily:
 * 1. Normal URL
 * http://politics.people.com.cn/GB/1024/3613123.html
 * 2. URL with arbitary parameter, such as "方舟 子" (?x=%B7%BD%D6%DB+%D7%D3)
 * http://politics.people.com.cn/GB/1024/3613123.html?x=%B7%BD%D6%DB+%D7%D3
 * 3. URL with parameter of sensitive words, such as "方舟子" (?x=%B7%BD%D6%DB%D7%D3)
 * http://politics.people.com.cn/GB/1024/3613123.html?x=%B7%BD%D6%DB%D7%D3
 * Visits of 1 and 2 are successful, but that of 3 would be denied, and then the page and other pages (except the default page) on the website cannot be visited by URL 1 or 2 for a period of time.
 * Conclusion: The blockage occured on portal of mainland China network, through filtering of URL (instead of page contents)

See also: URL, Punycode


 * AirBa 17:08, 15 May 2006 (UTC), IE user from Taiwan. Result: The same as mentioned above.

stats
Can anyone add an article counter link? I can't read Chinese :( --84.63.48.64 12:46, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
 * See http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pagecontent?lp=zh_en&trurl=http%3a%2f%2fbaike.baidu.com%2f ;) Neurillon 14:12, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

民主 (democracy)
They also have articles of 人权 (humanrights), 民主 (democracy), 天主教 (Catholic), 文化大革命 (Cultural Revolution). But it is hard for foreigners to look these terms up in search engine. AirBa 21:54, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
 * http://baike.baidu.com/lemma-php/dispose/view.php/1916.htm
 * http://baike.baidu.com/lemma-php/dispose/view.php/14448.htm
 * http://baike.baidu.com/lemma-php/dispose/view.php/6994.htm
 * http://baike.baidu.com/lemma-php/dispose/view.php/1921.htm


 * It's hardly a very in-depth discussion of human rights. As all articles have to be approved before they are published, the government doesn't have to worry about articles on contentious issues.


 * I can follow the links you gave, but searching for the terms myself causes me to be blocked.  J Rawle  (Talk) 10:12, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
 * How can a person in china access the word "democracy"? Sure the page is there, but if their internet blocks any website with the word... do they have some sort of special exsemption, or are the pages there just for show? (By the way, if these articles are truely evolving, these might not just be censored. Go back to the democray page in wikipedia on May of 2001 and see if it was any better).--Rayc 14:26, 18 May 2006 (UTC)


 * it only goes back to 2001 december: Family Guy Guy 06:37, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

See this wikinews article:

People from outside of China would be blocked if they try to access URLs with certain keywords. These URLs include many Chinese wiki URLs, and many search engine URLs that contain search queries. But they can access URLs without the word, such as the URLs above that contain only the article ID.

People in China are restricted from another set of keywords. They can access URLs with "democracy", though.

See also: Punycode: the way for URLs to contain Chinese.

AirBa 01:27, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Copyright infringement issues
Please refer to the corresponding (heated) discussion in the Chinese wikipedia about Baidu Baike. They have copied many articles from various copyrighted sources. They also copied many articles from the Chinese wikipedia without releasing them in licences compatible with GFDL. As wikipedia has been blocked by the Chinese government ever since October 2005, there isn't much chance that this problem could be addressed in the current Chinese legal system. Since Baidu is an American company, is there anything we can do about this?

--Wingchi 04:10, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
 * zh:Talk:百度百科
 * zh:Wikipedia:互助客栈/其他
 * zh:Wikipedia:互助客栈/其他
 * zh:User:Pubuhan/baidu


 * Why should Baidu care about GFDL or CC? GFDL and CC probably doesn't even apply under chinese laws. Hell, Baidu can sell wikipedia content if they want to and the chinese governmnet would not give a damn. 70.48.250.138 01:03, 16 May 2006 (UTC)


 * If, as Wingchi said, Baidu is an American company, then US laws apply to them, even if they are operating mostly in China. Even if they aren't officially incorporated in the US, they appear to be listed on the Nasdaq, so we in the USA may have some leverage in such matters. --64.232.164.63 23:49, 29 June 2006 (UTC)


 * China follows both the Berne Convention and the Universal Copyright Convention. The GFDL and CC most certainly do apply under Chinese law. --Gwern (contribs) 15:33 14 November 2009 (GMT)

Growth
Could someone add information how Baidu manages to grow by tens of thousands of articles per month? Do they count stubs as articles? Pavel Vozenilek 21:59, 6 September 2006 (UTC)


 * 1) they count everything as articles.the users of baidu baike just copy the information which is found through search engine as baidu.com and paste it into the baike database.the information in baidu baike also may contain some of the information form baidu zhidao(baidu's Q&A database).baidu baike even doesn't have a redirection system,so we can find many articles that are talking about the same thing.my english is not so good,i hope i can help.--Tingo 09:31, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

维基百科 (Wikipedia)
Wow! It's quite unbelievable: Baidupedia has an article about Wikipedia and it contains all the stuff about its blocking in the PRC! I wonder how long it's gonna remain there. A passage from it: "Wikipedia and the other projects of Wikimedia were banned in October 2005 by the mainland Chinese government, one cannot visit it normally until now" (维基百科以及其他维基媒体项目于2005年10月被大陆当局封锁，至今不能正常访问. )--Shakura 10:33, 22 May 2006 (UTC)


 * It still is there. Interestingly enough, it does a decent explanation of WP:NPOV and paints Wikipedia in a positive light, saying "its activities precisely reflects the web-culture's pluralism, openness, democractic values and anti-authoritarianism." (维基社群的活动都精确地反射着网络文化的多元性、开放性、平民化和非权威主义. ) -- Миборовский U 03:16, 2 June 2006 (UTC)


 * And moreover, in the bottom it gives some links to get access to Wikipedia!--Shakura 06:59, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
 * There's no info about the block and no links anymore, hehe.--Shakura 08:49, 17 August 2006 (UTC)


 * If it does take a positive view on Wikipedia it goes against NPOV, anyway. 195.53.125.135 11:57, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

politically reactionary content
The third point is particularly notable, as the content of the encyclopedia will have to satisfy the Chinese government's position. There are no articles about the Tiananmen Square protests of 1989, "六四" (literally "six four", a common acronym for the protest), or Falun Gong ("法轮功"). In fact, due to the effects of the so-called "Great Firewall of China", attempts to search for these terms from some domains lead to denial of access to the Baidu search engine for several minutes if the user is outside mainland China (but not for users inside).

I removed above.

This is a not Baidu Baike-specific problem. In fact, politically reactionary content is banned for any website inside mainland China. We can't mention this for each Chinese website article. They should be put in another article such as Internet censorship in mainland China. Second, attempts to search for censored terms on any Chinese website outside China will result a denial of access to the site for several minutes. This is not Baidu Baike cut off the connection, but the Great Firewall. Yao Ziyuan 18:02, 10 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I just put some, but not all, of the content back. I think it is notable, but I took out the second sentence and replaced it with the link you suggested.  Let me know what you think. 74.61.128.28 21:17, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Difference with Wikipedia
The whole section "Difference with Wikipedia" is rather uninformative and messy. For example, what does the "fully chinese language environment" mean? The Chinese Wikipedia is not? Pavel Vozenilek 12:25, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Is Baidu Baike :
 * like wikipedia : contributors work together on the same article "China"
 * like Knol : contributors work each on their respective version of "China" (so we can have 300 article "China", and so, the number of 1 millions article in 2 years means... nothing.)
 * Yug (talk)  13:54, 20 February 2008 (UTC)


 * the first one. Hu yifon (talk) 16:12, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Clarify meaning
Most of the Chinese mainland users think "'its own products' is obviously 'Baidu Baike'" and that "Baidu is not able to be in the name of 'China' or 'Chinese people'".

Removed above text as it made little sense. Please clarify. Snake66 (talk) 23:57, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Chinese censorship sucks
Wow, that "Chinese censorship in action" link is awesome. I copied and pasted "民主" (democracy), searched for it in Baidu Baike and now I can't access the page. Unbelievable. -- TonyM ｷﾀ━( °∀° )━ｯ!!  12:50, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Not exactly. Why the author won't be able to access the site for 10-15 minutes after enter Falun Gong or something like, not Baidu blocks him, but the Great Firewall. The Firewall is bi-directional, not just block "illegal" communication from inside to outside, but vice versa. Yao Ziyuan 11:34, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I can't quite see the rationale behind that. They prevent people from democratic countries in the west looking up "democracy" on Baike, but are quite happy for Chinese citizens within China doing so?
 * I suppose if you mean the firewall blocks any traffic with those characters in it from passing either way, the idea is to prevent me telling someone in China about democracy. That makes more sense.  J Rawle  (Talk) 14:42, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
 * There's no rationale, they just block things at their will, even when it doesn't make sense most of the time. They block foreigners from searching "democracy" in China, but they don't block searches about "democracy" from inside China, and it can return results from democracy related stuff from outside the mainland China, so nope they are definitely not trying to prevent you from telling someone in China about democracy, or at least the GFW doesn't exactly try to do that. You can write a website about democracy and someone in China can search for "democracy" and your website will show up in the search results. And people can go to your site, until the GFW specifically blocks your site if it becomes influencial enough that is.
 * So it's definitely NOT blocking any traffic from passing either way. It's just blocking the outside traffics with the characters "democracy" from going in, but it's not blocking inside traffics with characters "democracy" from going out. Also it blocks inside traffics with characters "massacre" from going out, but it doesn't block outside traffics with characters "massacre" from going in. That makes not sense but that's what the GFW does.
 * And they block all searches about "massacre" from inside China, even when it's searching for "Nanking Massacre by the Japanese". Like I said, they are just a bunch of idiots that blocks stuffs in certain ways that most of the time don't make sense. That's the FACTs, and that doesn't need to make more sense for you, since it doesn't make much sense for us to begin with. 123.112.224.228 (talk) 03:44, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
 * What I mean just technically speaking, it is incorrect to say Baidu blocks it. OK, I know how the Party and Baidu company evil, and I am f*cked by the holy Firewall almost everyday, but as a technical expert, I can still access Wikipedia, here, so that's all, and that's enough. So in an evil society, let us all be evil, that would be the best choice. I don't care about those non-technical things, as the ancient Chinese classics Zuo Zhuan says, 肉食者謀之，又何間焉.  Yao Ziyuan 21:47, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Hudong
I commented out the claim that Hudong is now the "largest online encyclopedia". It was unsourced, I couldn't verify it; Alexa gives much lower traffic numbers, and the claim isn't even mentioned in that company's article. Wnt (talk) 20:20, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Open vs. copyright
I can't evaluate the original Chinese, so I won't fix this, but the article contains a contradiction: it says that this is an "open encyclopedia" yet it also says that contributors give up copyright of their works to the company. Open what, exactly? Wnt (talk) 20:02, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Open access? Msscmm (talk) 13:05, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Article is just anti-Chinese propaganda
The article on Baidu is just anti-Chinese propaganda with a little factual information to make it appear to be an article. Some of the information may be technically true, but the choice in wording is clearly biased. For example, the list of rules for article submission is nearly identical to Wikipedia rules yet have been creatively translated to sound, to a native English reader, as very repressive rules compared to the US wikipedia. The fact that the same rules are used by almost every wiki in the world isn't mentioned. The fact that the rules as written are just the opinion of the translator isn't mentioned.

pornographic or violent text or images - SAME - called the Internet Decency Act...

"Malicious evaluation" of the current national system - SAME - Just post one of the videos showing US soldiers executing unarmed civilians and see how long it lasts. Undermine public regulation - SAME - the US calls it “supporting terrorize” you can ask WikiLeaks...

Attacks on government institutions and officials - SAME as #4 above.

Instigating racial, ethical, religion or regional issues - SAME - It’s called a hate crime in the US. You can't even make Jewish jokes without risking jail time.

Propagating "religious cults or feudalistic and superstitious beliefs" - SAME - Remember Waco? The US just will kill you and burn down your “cult” compound, children and all.

Providing hyperlinks to any of the abovementioned contents - SAME - The US guilt by association laws kick in. Just ask the MPAA or RIAA.

The section on claimed copyright violation is also very biased. Copyrighting the web page layout/artwork does not make a claim to own the freely available articles on the website, yet no where in the whole anti-Chinese copyright section does it even mention this.

The use of quotes on translated statements is intentionally misleading. The translations are the opinion of one or more very biased individuals yet by quoting they give the appearance that the words shown are the rules verbatim. Even if they were, that would not take into account the language barrier. One word or praise can literally translate into something quite different from the original meaning. Considering the bias of the entire article one would assume that all of the translated text has been re-worded to fit into the anti-Chinese agenda of the authors.

“Like Baidu itself, the encyclopedia is heavily self-censored in line with government regulations.[1]“

The “reference" is an article titled, "Baidu's Censored Answer to Wikipedia". That article was wrote by a US website and it hardly sounds like an un-biased academic reference.

The article makes reference to government censorship, yet without valid non-biased references to back it up nor a fair counter argument that justifies blocking of certain martial. Most reasonable people understand that blocking material that can harm others is acceptable, yet the assumption is that everything blocked by the Chinise is evil censorship and everything blocked by the US is an acceptable government action to protect the people. The double standards used in this article is blantant and my guess is that I (US centizen) will be flammed heavlly for just pointing out the double standards as that’s anti-American to voice any option that isn’t pro-US government when comparing to other countries.

Mouse2600 (talk) 05:47, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Copyright?
Under what conditions is the content licenced? Is there any chance that we could use Hudong to expand the Chinese Wikipedia? --Kaiyr (talk) 04:43, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

Taiwan
They do seem to have a section for Taiwan: 

I can't find anything in the section worth reading, though.--Rayc 15:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
 * that's your problem. Dark Liberty (talk) 07:02, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

Sad. Really sad.
The Chinese are kinda in a sad state. What would they want to block on wikipedia? Knowledge? ( <- Yes, sadly)  Heltec    talk 
 * I guess mainland-taiwan collaboration was going too smoothly on wikipedia, it had to be discontinued, for the safety of young mainlanders mind... CarrKnight 08:03, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
 * equating Wikipedia to knowledge is just a bridge too far. the bias in your statements is evident, as well as extreme racism. Dark Liberty (talk) 07:00, 8 February 2014 (UTC)
 * You're replying to an 8 year old post, I don't think you're going to get the reply you're hoping on getting. -- benlisquare T•C•E 11:06, 9 February 2014 (UTC)
 * You replied to me, and it shows how much of a insistent cohort you really are. Dark Liberty (talk) 21:03, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Your generalisation makes no sense. Wikipedia does not work as a hivemind like you're implying, the community consists of individuals with differing opinions; I for one don't agree with many of the leftist opinions certain groups of people on Wikipedia tend to have who have an extreme hard-on for political correctness, such as these people. Furthermore, I only replied because I noticed a ping on my watchlist. Who and what I choose to reply to has nothing to do with the "cohort". -- benlisquare T•C•E 21:09, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

They can view pages with Tor Family Guy Guy 06:40, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Conception Section
"William Chang said that at the World Wide Web Consortium there is no reason for China to use Wikipedia"

I would include a corporate history rather a conception based on censorship. Dark Liberty (talk) 06:30, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

Talk
Is there talk page as in wikipedia?--Kaiyr (talk) 04:41, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
 * yes. Dark Liberty (talk) 06:33, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

Quality of articles
I find that Baidu Baike's article quality is not as good as Wikipedia's. For example, there are only 10 references on Baidu Baike, while there are 288 references on Chinese Wikipedia. May I know what contributed to this problem? 219.74.220.71 (talk) 14:06, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Baidu indirectly facilitates and encourages copyright infringement and articles that are poorly sourced, by not actively moderating and deleting articles of poor quality. There are many cases where Wikipedia articles are copypasted to Baidu Baike without proper attribution, and other cases where entire webpages are copypasted wholesale into "articles". Baidu cares about puffing up statistics ("Look, we have 9 million articles!"), and only moderates if politically sensitive content is added. -- benlisquare T•C•E 14:30, 6 April 2015 (UTC)