Talk:Balarama/Archive 1

Avatar
Isn't Balarama the 9th (and not the 8th) avatar ?No he was just Sri Krishna's brother and just avatar of Shesha .And where in the avatar box does Buddha and Chaitanya Mahaprabhu come ? Jay 17:29, 25 Feb 2004 (UTC)


 * You're right about ninth, I've fixed it. Balarama is the most common candidate for the ninth avatar, and I didn't think it was worth cluttering up the box, so I left Buddha out. Chaitanya is totally out of the question, the dasavatara story has been around far longer than he has; I don't think anyone except the descendants of his disciples considers him an avatar :) -- Arvindn 18:28, 25 Feb 2004 (UTC)


 * OK, I've added Buddha. I think I've figured out about Chaitanya: he's the Hare Krishna guy, and Hare Krishna is somewhat well-known outside India, and so Chaitanya as an avatar might have some weight in Western studies on Hinduism, one of which must have originally formed the basis for the avatar article. But no Hindus accept that view, so I don't think its fair to put him in the box. -- Arvindn 18:40, 25 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Just as a note, the 'Hare Krishna guy' referred to is 'Sri Krishna Caitanya Mahaprabhu' who appeared in India in 1486. He is not included within the standard list of Vishnu avatars in the Bhagavata Purana, but is known as the 'hidden' avatar. There are verses foretelling His appearance in a number of places in Mahabharata and later on in the Bhagavata Purana. His divinity is accepted amongst Gaudiya Vaishnavas inside and outside India (including ISKCON) but He is not so well known by 'Hindus' as a whole. --GourangaUK 09:33, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Bit about Yasoda?
The part about Krishna being in Yasoda's womb can't be right because she was not Krishna's mother by birth, so it's completely illogical. --Grammatical error 06:57, 21 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I think you have a point there GM ... maybe we could replace it with another pastime more in line with the rest of Balarama's lila. Best Wishes, GourangaUK 20:05, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Strength
My apologies for misunderstanding the text and pointing the link incorrectly.

Wikipedia policy is to discourage linking directly to disambiguation pages, especially when the word is being used in a particular sense. What would be an appropriate link here? Is this the same bala referenced in Vishnu? Is it same or different than The Five Powers referenced at the end of the bala disambiguation page? Should it have an explanatory article of its own? (Titled what? There's a temporary placeholder, bala (strength), in the Vishnu article but that may not be the best choice for the article's name.) Or is the word "strength" being used so amorphously here that it makes better sense to link to the wiktionary definition, strength? Sanguinity 23:06, 25 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Hi Sanguinity, I've linked it to the wikitionary definition which you gave above - I thought it shouldn't be tied down to a specific spin on strength, GourangaUK 22:26, 26 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Thank you much! Sanguinity 23:29, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Origins
I believe the quote regarding the origins of Balarama from the British Museum (I'm assuming from a plaque that went alongside the coin?) is not suitable for inclusion with the coin caption. It gives a non-universal opinion, which would be fine if referenced from a study or book by a scholar knowledgeable in the origins of Hinduism, within the main text alongside other counter-views. However, at present it is written as fact, and I would not personally consider a caption at the British museum a reliable source on such a complex issue. For dates I would consider such a source reliable, but not so for theories of this type. Gouranga(UK) 19:31, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

British Museum coin caption
"Balarama, holding mace and conch on a Maurya coin (lower right), 3rd-2nd century CE. British Museum."

The Mauryan empire was an empire of the 3rd-2nd century BCE, not CE.--SohanDsouza (talk) 02:54, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Translation/meaning of "Balarama"
In "Book Of Vishnu" by Nanditha Krishna, it is said that Balarama means "Rama with the plough." This is on page 99. I am new to Wikipedia, so I will let someone else decide whether to make this edit or not. But it is in that book, plain as day, and it seems like a valid citation.

Can be read on google books: http://books.google.com/books?id=f9cSlaLMlgEC&pg=PA98&dq=balarama+revathi+plough&hl=en&sa=X&ei=AhfCUPrCGZS08ASVmYHQBQ&ved=0CDYQ6AEwAg#v=snippet&q=plough&f=false

68.52.189.176 (talk) 16:44, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

Sankarshana form of Vishnu
If this is what is going in the summary paragraph it needs a link or an explanation. If Sankarshana is supposed to refer to Adi Shesha than that should be written instead for clarity. Googling the phrase "Sankarshana form of Vishnu" only leads to this wiki and does not clearly explain things in an encyclopedic manner. Either rewrite it, add a link for sankarshana, or it should be removed as it detracts from the clarity and simplicity of the opening description. Iṣṭa Devata (talk) 18:23, 20 December 2014 (UTC)
 * There is a concept of Chaturvyuhas in Pancharatra texts (some background found in last para of Vaikuntha_Chaturmurti). Samkarshana denotes Balarama as part of Chaturvyuha possibly. -- Redtigerxyz Talk 19:11, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

Then it needs to say that, or we make a real shankarshana page to go to, or remove the word, because it is just confusing without an explanation. It sounds like it is implying a shaiva (shankara) form. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Iṣṭa Devatā (talk • contribs) 16:49, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

Indic Language Removal on Wikipedia
Hi, Ogress I was reading the policy conversations you mentioned on this subject and had a hard time figuring out what their actual conclusions were. I was wondering if you could explain or point me to a place where it simply states the policy instead of the debate over it. Either way this seems like a troubling policy to implement for historical articles (it almost seemed like the debate was over figures and place names largely). As a linguist you that removing the devanagari AND the IAST from Sanskrit articles means that there is vital information missing from the page that the IPA does not provide. To be able to use any of these articles academically (which I do, studying for my masters in yoga studies and history) one needs to have the standards of Indic academia addressed. My text books use IAST exclusively and no IPA ever. If you were academically studying these topics, the IPA is useless to you, and only the IAST matters. That's the only reason there is an International Alphabet of Sanskrit Transliteration that is nearly universal in Indic studies. I understand removing excessive modern indic translations with their thousand regional variations, but this is removing troves of important information about a static and dead language, and you're not even replacing it with the IPA first, so the next editor will have a harder time making a proper IPA transliteration. Very concerning. It feels like watching books burn.Iṣṭa Devatā (talk) 17:04, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

Dynasty
Hello, can you please help me with a source which describes on lineage/dynasty to which Balarama belonged to in Hinduism? -- Pankaj Jain Capankajsmilyo (talk · contribs · [//tools.wmflabs.org/xtools-ec/?user=Capankajsmilyo&project=en.wikipedia.org count])  18:47, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Well, he is believed to have belonged to the Yadu dynasty as the page says. What more do you need? - Kautilya3 (talk) 20:09, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Shouldn't there be a category for Yadu dynasty? -- Pankaj Jain Capankajsmilyo (talk · contribs · [//tools.wmflabs.org/xtools-ec/?user=Capankajsmilyo&project=en.wikipedia.org count])  21:09, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
 * If you are asking whether it is ok to create a category, the answer is yes. But I doubt if you will find very many pages that you can put in it. - Kautilya3 (talk) 22:07, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified
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A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 13:53, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Death of Bala Rama.jpg

New image
Hello editors, @Redtigerxyz, @Dāsānudāsa, @Chronikhiles, @Utcursch and @पाटलिपुत्र. Hope you all are in good health. As you all are active on the Vaishnavism related pages, I am tagging you all to seek your feedback/opinion on replacing the current lead image of Balarama by another recent idol image of Balarama uploaded by me.

First let me clarify that present image is also a decent one. It is a public domain image. But, the new image has higher resolution (1712 x 2190 pixels), better aesthetics and clarity and apt depiction of Balrama as mentioned in scriptures (Wearing blue dress and holding plough).

Kindly, give your respective suggestions on this. Regards. Kridha (talk) 11:00, 21 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Better at the end of the article in the gallery, as a modern depiction of Balarama. Nice pic. पाटलिपुत्र  (Pataliputra)  (talk) 11:23, 21 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Not in favour of this image, as the hala is missing (this image seems to hold a stick) - which is an important part of his iconography. 17th century mural (current) has more historic value. -- Redtigerxyz Talk 17:28, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Agreed, I think the present mural is more suitable for the infobox, but this image could be included in the article somewhere. Chronikhiles (talk) 05:53, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

Thank you so much everyone for taking out your time to give your feedbacks. As majority of you are not in favour of the new image, so let us continue with the current mural painting of Balarama as the lead image. Regards. Kridha (talk) 08:15, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

Corrections
Coming from Dashavatara, I'm checking User:Nagannaas edits here; same misuse and misunderstanding of sources. Joshua Jonathan -  Let's talk!  06:00, 15 September 2023 (UTC)