Talk:Bale Mountains National Park

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Ambiguity of lions in the Horn of Africa
Sorry to interrupt your use of scientific names again, but what is the point of calling these lions, or others in the Horn of Africa, as either Panthera leo leo or "Central African lion clade", when these lions are assessed to be possibly mixed between the northern (Panthera leo leo) and southern (Panthera leo melanochaita) subspecies by both Bertola et al. and the Cat Specialist Group, which put a question mark over the Horn of Africa, meaning that they had difficulty in assigning these lions to either the northern or southern subspecies, and therefore, it is safer to call them "African lions" than for example "Central African" or Panthera leo leo? I also noticed something else about their report, which you might find shocking, but I prefer to divulge the details later. Leo1pard (talk) 12:54, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

Have a look into the suppl. material provided in Bertola et al. (2006): the wild lion sample no. 54 from Bale Mountains NP grouped with the Central African clade together with samples from Chad, Sudan and Central African Republic. No need for the ref list: I know these publications. BTW: African lion is neither a species nor a subspecies. So if you really want to play safe, link both to Lion. -- BhagyaMani (talk) 13:41, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

Strangely, though one sample from this national park did group with Central African samples, three other samples from Nechisar National Park and Kaffa Province, both of which are closer to South Sudan (which is considered to be a Central African country, and where the Central clade is present), were grouped in the Northeastern clade of the southern subspecies, which is considered to overlap with the Central clade of the northern subspecies to form a mixed group of lions in the Horn of Africa, so why should it be the case that 1 sample from Bale NP grouped with Central African lions, when 3 other samples from places that are closer to Central Africa are of that group of lions which the CSG had trouble with, in terms of taxonomy? Leo1pard (talk) 14:19, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

Well, look, none of the scientists had any idea for a reason. That's why they did not speculate, but carefully explained that the samples did not get in touch in the lab. So shouldn't we speculate, at least not in the wiki page. Possible is that this lion is an undocumented case of an escapee from captivity; the 5 captive lions from Addis Ababa zoo all grouped with same clade. -- BhagyaMani (talk) 14:33, 19 September 2018 (UTC) The other 2 captive lions grouped with a different clade, but since they were confiscated in the palace, they might have been gifts from somewhere out of Ethiopia, i.e. their origin is not certain. -- BhagyaMani (talk) 14:39, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

What is definitive however is that lions have migrated here and there, so just because one sample in this area was from a lion that had a closer relationship with Central African lions than other Ethiopian lions doesn't mean that that has to be the case for the whole population in this area. Leo1pard (talk) 16:06, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

Given that the pop in Bale Mountains NP was estimated at 50 lions in 2009 (Gebresenbet et al. 2009), the chances are rather low for having singled out the ONLY one that groups with the Central African lion clade. Sure, one sample is not representative for the whole pop. But since there are more than one lion in a pride, they are all related. It is therefore much more likely that they all have the same haplotype 12 than not. -- BhagyaMani (talk) 16:54, 19 September 2018 (UTC)