Talk:Ballet/Archive 1

Intro
I removed the following piece:


 * It incorporates alignment, flexibility, exercises, and center work in a disciplined curriculum. Typical ballet classes consist of a barre and center work; more advanced classes include adagio, petit allegro, and grande allegro sections.

Reasons: (a) a piece was put by an anonim into an arbitrary place, out of logic flow of the article. (b) Even if the phrase is correct, it is full of terminology and useless: both experts and ignorants learn nothing. Mikkalai 22:16, 15 Feb 2004 (UTC)

If you were talking about women the way you talk about ballet, you would hear from thousands of angry women. It lacks sensibility, and shows no concern for the person that doesnt know anything about ballet, and knowing the realibility of wikipedia checks it there, and what a fiasco.


 * should there be a page for ballets (ballet dances)? this page needs more information and links to the various aspects of ballet such as ballet lessons, history, choregraphers etc etc Ohka- 23:14, 30 May 2004 (UTC)


 * I think there should be a page for ballets. I'm working on it... so far I've done Romantic and Neoclassical Ballet, so I hope to see feedback/corrections/etc mary 22:48, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)

what's needed

 * a better main entry
 * history of ballet page
 * ballet timeline
 * the ballletcatergories need to have pages created (eg romantic ballet)
 * the other methods need pages
 * important ballets need pages
 * famous ballet companies need thier pages
 * ballet artists
 * ballet catergories
 * Different schools - russian, italian, etc.
 * All the different ballet exams

81.153.52.218 07:56, 4 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Mariinsky - Kirov Ballet
To help clear up any confusion:


 * 1790 - 1917: Mariinsky Ballet
 * 1917 - 1935: Academic State Theatre Ballet
 * 1935 – 1991: Kirov Ballet
 * 1991 -        : Mariinsky Ballet

The Ballet company has alway been a part of the part of the Theatre (Mariinsky Theatre, Academic State Theatre, Kirov Theatre). The name changes reflect the political suituation in russia at that particular time.

When touring outside Russia the ballet company is called the Kirov Ballet

see: What is the official name of the Kirov-Mariinsky Ballet?


 * I actually have that article up on my computer now (I think I'm gonna re-write the Kirov article tommorow). That's why I made the page move, and changed the wording around, so that it's more appropiate to the current day. Lyellin 13:48, Aug 3, 2004 (UTC)

This is not Correct Lyellin
I know its been a long while since user:Lyellin put up this post, but from 1790 until circa 1917 the Kirov/Mariinsky Ballet was known as the Imperial Ballet.

QUOTE - "The Ballet company has alway been a part of the part of the Theatre (Mariinsky Theatre..." - this is not correct either. From 1783 until 1886, the Imperial Ballet and Opera's home theatre was the Imperial Bolshoi Kamenny Theatre. This building was declared unsafe in 1886, and so the companies relocated to the Imperial Mariinsky Theatre (the theatre's title at that time).

--Mrlopez2681 02:13, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

contemporary vs. classical ballet
What are the differences between contemporary and classical ballet?--Hhielscher 21:53, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

Classical ballet focuses more on the technical aspects of dance that have been used for years, especially by Russian companies. Contemporary ballet tends to focus more on emotion and movement than technique.

I beg to differ slightly on the above statement. The confusion between contrmporary vs. classical ballet has purely come with the rapid development of dance in recent decades. Contemporary Dance is now viewed as a completely seperate dance genre from ballet, although its roots are very firmly based in classical dance. Particularly now, contemporary dance and ballet should never be confused, they are very different subjects entirely, although you do tend to find them crossing over and influences creeping in depending on the training and inspiration of the choreographer (eg. Christopher Weeldon being an ex-ballet dancer has a distinctly balletic edge to his contemporary choreography, whereas Wayne McGreggor or Mark Morris have also had a classical training to a certain extend, but their choreography tends to appear more dynamically similar to jazz. In essence, to clarify the above comment, contemporary dance developped out of ballet and on a technical level, the majority of contemporary dance companies will still only take dancers with a strong classical dance training, although this is not essential.   The primary difference is that ballet has very firm and strict rules that have developped over hundreds of years and these rules apply whether in the studio or on stage and very few choreographers ever deviate from these rules. In stark comparison, contemporary dance has no rules per se. Contemporary dancers do study a technical subject just the same, a combination of ballet, cunningham and graham techniques for example, but in performance the choreographer has an artistic carte blanche to do anything that comes into their head. Hope this makes sense to someone. Crazy-dancing 10:58, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Ballet and its gendering
Someone should address the contemporary controversy around Ballet--the common tie to eating disorders, the gendering and caricaturing of women, the problems with the implicit gender/power dynamics, and so on. Unfortunatly I know only about the subject, not much of it. -bmortimer 8 November 2005


 * I'm intrigued by the phrase "gendering and caricaturing of women." Classical ballet certainly includes female characters that aren't ideals for today's women, but these are historic pieces, much like the plays of Shakespeare.  Are you objecting to a current practice in the world of dance, or the performance of more traditional ballets?  -pmerz 8 August 2006
 * Something definately needs to mentioned about eating disorders and the obsession with thinness and the "right body" within the modern ballet community. Gender (the fact that male dancers are seen as "gay" by many people outside the ballet world, ect.) should also be discussed. This article has really improved since I first read it, although I still think alot could be added to make it even better. CerealBabyMilk 07:30, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
 * There are other gender points not discussed. For instance, I read in an encyclopedia that ballet in France was danced by men for the first 100 years. Also, nowadays there are a few transvestite ballerinas walking around. —The preceding 24.211.249.43 05:07, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

This makes me really angry and I can't hear these commments without biting back. The pre-occupation with the dancers body is very much an 80's, 90's phenomenon. Ballet and dance schools and companies in partcular are much more enlightened these days, with masses of research being done and much more knowledge widely available. Unfotunately this knowledge very simply suggests that a 'good' ballet dancer requires a degree of natural facility, a very specific body type, coupled with a strict diet and regular training etc. Ballet is not a natural physical activity and without careful selection of dance students, you get serious problems with injuries and even the best ballet dancers get into trouble with their body at times, it is a demanding sport after all. Also, in ballet schools, I would like to point out that now, diet, weight, height and body type are stricly monitored following careful guidelines FOR A REASON, being vital to the dancers development. I know many young dancers at the Royal Ballet School and know that anyone showing signs of such problems as Anorexia and Bulemia for example are simply sent home, advised to seek councilling and are not allowed to continue their training as it just isn't safe to train in that way and it is very mcuh frowned on. Crazy-dancing 11:13, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Photo
Why do some of the snowflakes have 5-fold symmetry?

Actually, I think the photo for this page needs to be replaced - none of the dancers are actually in technically-correct positions, and (looking at it from a dancer's viewpoint), that hurts this page's credibility. Not entirely sure where to find a usable non-copyrighted photo though.

—I agree.


 * There must be someone who would be willing to donate a picture to this page of more technically accurate dancing. Also, the caption refers to the composer's name, instead of the choreographer's or dance company who is performing.  I think Tchaikovsky is swell, but certainly he didn't stage this particular production?


 * I've looked around, but I can't find any. I uploaded two pictures I took (they're on my page) but they were with a crappy camera and no flash; and one was from about thirty feet away, backstage, between costume changes. In my opinion the ballet picture being used now needs rapid replacement, but I'm not sure a fuzzy picture would be any better... I'm going to try to contact the gentleman in charge of the Ballerina Gallery and ask if he has any copyright-free pictures or protected ones he's willing to donate. --Editor at Large 14:14, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

The new photo of Paloma Herrera as Sylvia is a great image, but I'm a little uneasy about its provenance. The caption says Photo credit: Gene Schiavone, but the photo's page says Photo by Marty Sohl. It also says "This image was obtained from Kelly Ryan, the Director of Press and Public Relations at ABT. In contact with Rmrfstar through email." But it's not clear to me whether the copyright owner (Schiavone? Sohl? Ryan? ABT?) has really offered it under the GFDL license, as claimed on the wikimedia commons page at http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Sylherrera.jpg, or whether this is just fair use, as stated on the WP page. I'm also not at all convinced that the fair use rationale is valid --- the photo is higher resolution than necessary, and replaced a GFDL-licensed one. I'll drop a message to Rmrfstar and ask for clarification.--24.52.254.62 04:55, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

User Rmrfstar has taken the Paloma Herrera photo out, since he agrees with me that it's not an appropriate case of fair use. I've replaced it with a cropped and retouched version of the older GFDL'd photo of a Nutcracker performance, with a caption referring to the fact that she's on pointe. This version cuts out the dancers in the background. Were the technical problems people were complaining about just problems with the dancers in the background, or is the dancer doing the arabesque also doing something wrong? If so, then another image that could be used instead is Image:Violetta_Elvin.jpg.--24.52.254.62 16:34, 22 October 2006 (UTC)


 * No, her arabesque is incorrect as well; her alignment, arm positions, and legs are all off -- as well as the fact that her supporting foot is photoshopped in. The Violetta Elvin image is actually being used already on the En pointe page (I used it to replace a TERRIBLE image, which basically showed how not to stand en pointe). I sent an e-mail to the owner of The Ballerina Gallery asking if he had any copyright-free images, but have not as yet recieved a response. It's been over a month, so I don't know if I will. At any rate, I'm going to start bringing my camera to rehersals and start snapping pictures. Maybe I'll end up with a good one, if I can use the flash this time... — E  ditor at L arge  ( speak )  17:45, 22 October 2006 (UTC)


 * The problem is that it looks like the Maya Plisetskaya photo is going to go away. There are thousands of old Soviet-era photos on WP and wikimedia commons, all of which were posted with copyright templates claiming that they were public domain; however, it seems pretty clear now that that interpretation of the law was just wrong: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:PD-Soviet, and the images are going to be deleted. It would be great if you could take some pictures at rehearsals. While you're at it, how about photos demonstrating the five positions? That would be really cool and useful!--24.52.254.62 18:59, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Portal:Dance
Portal:Dance has been started. Please have a look. --Roland2 12:10, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

David and Goliath
I've added David and Goliath (ballet) to Goliath (disambiguation), but the article does not yet exist. And there seems to be no list of ballets to add it to. Michael Hardy 23:47, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Article revamp
In my humble (or not, depends) opinion, I think that this article needs an enormous revamp. It needs to be completely re-written, more info needs to be added, and the useless stuff needs to be taken out. I'm going to go ahead and start working on it. — E  ditor at L arge  ( speak )  22:03, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
 * There are a reasonable amount of ballet-related articles floating around Wikipedia, this article should probably attempt to present most of them either in prose format or annotated list. Additionally, since technique is so huge in ballet, there should at least be a section for it. Also maybe the classic faceoff between Russian and Royal ballet (oh and ABT). --Keitei (talk) 23:00, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Intro

 * Fencing stuff needs to be moved out (into history?) -removed
 * More info on how ballet is unique should be added
 * No subjectivity

History

 * Looks pretty good, but could be longer and more in depth, perhaps History of ballet spin out?
 * Recent history needs expanding

Technique

 * Basic outline of essentials
 * Differing schools

Ballet...
Most people think that Ballet is easy. Those people are wrong. Ballet takes strength, perseverence, and patience. You need to take the time of day to practice though. If you don't work hard to build up your muscles, then you will never be able to proceed and learn more. You also would never be able to go on to Pointe. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 207.255.62.122 (talk • contribs).

I have yet to hear anyone saying that ballet is easy. I went to see "An Introduction to the Ballet," At the ballet theatre in Melbourne last year and I was amazed by the strength of both the male and female Dancers!--Read-write-services 21:25, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

How it works
In my opinion, physics and perceptual illusion are essential to ballet. Its true you could enjoy, teach or perform w/o formal physics, based only on physical intuition and an artistic sense. But you couldn't explain or really understand it. Part of the art of ballet is to appear to defy gravity while working within its constraints. The spins and turns likewise depend on the laws of physics. Some readers may view view explanations as a kind of spoiler but they are free to skip the section. The article I cited is oriented to ballet more than other forms of dance. Some of the posts convince me that confusion continues to exist. One editor wrote that the dancer stays up as long as possible. In reality a prima ballerina has no better chance than a hippopotamus of staying suspended in air! What is really happening? Curious readers willwant to know.


 * Knowledge of physics is not necessary at all to understand, teach, learn, or perform any dance form, though perhaps it can be beneficial. I have never seen a technical manual of dance which employs physics to illustrate a point, and I have read numerous manuals on the Cecchetti, Vaganova, Legat, Lifar, R.A.D, and Danish--and more--schools.  While physics can describe the movements you see, explanations of dance movement that rely on physics generally reveal that the author has little or no knowledge of how the dancer achieves and maintains those positions in the first place, and the science of biomechanics never seems to be a consideration.


 * It's true, a prima ballerina is not "suspended" in air; she will fall 32 feet per second per second like anything else--after she "maxes out" her elevation. The quality of her jumps depends on how elastic her muscles are, not just how strong they are.  This so-called suspension, what dancers call "ballon", is achieved by making a strong preparatory spring from a solid, "elastic" plie (knee bend), combined with the support and strength of the feet and legs, followed by stretching the arms and legs almost imperceptibly at the very "top" of the jump; it should look as if the whole body is taking a breath.


 * The article cited is probably more oriented to ballet because "ballon" is a quality specific to ballet. Modern dance, in contrast, is more earthbound, but having good "ballon" is an asset even to a modern dancer.


 * If you are looking to physicists to explain how dance movements are possible, or how they are executed, you are looking in the wrong place. You will find better answers from dancers & dance instructors, even from physical therapists (if you must have a "hard" scientific explanation).  In the world of dance, the most brilliant physicist is a layperson and an amateur, who has some very interesting and perhaps helpful observations on the art.Roseblink 12:03, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

It is true that most ballet manuals do not delve into physics. At least is was true until Kenneth Laws wrote Physics and the Art of Dance ISBN-10: 0195144821 ISBN-13: 978-0195144826 . Kenneth Laws is a physicist who discovered ballet too late in life to become a performer. He is instead a dance teacher who integrates science into his classes. People vary in their cognitive styles. Some prefer intuitive imagery whereas others want hard explanations.

Remember ballet is an evolving art form with continual innovation. De arte saltandi et choreus ducendi would not have much about pointe work. Part of the richness of ballet is that is can be viewed from many perspectives. Historical, musical, visual and scientific. However impressive your credentials may be, they cannot be exhaustive, simply because ballet cannot be exhausted. Because ballet “got by” without science does not mean science has nothing to bring to the table. Many items in our lives were used way before they were correctly explained. Airplanes for example.Aircraft flight mechanicsCayte 03:21, 17 February 2007 (UTC)Cayte

Ballet dancers use their abdominal muscles to carry their weight in their midsections. This takes the pressure off the feet.

Its not possible to support your entire weight on your abdomon except in the bow asana. The abdomon may be distributing the weight better and more efficiently but the feet must still support your full weight. Your scale weight doesn't change with what you do with your abdomon. Cayte 03:23, 19 February 2007 (UTC)Cayte

Dubious tag
I've placed a dubious tag after this on the main page:
 * The first ballet produced and shown was Balthasar de Beaujoyeulx's Ballet Comique de la Reyne (1581) and was a ballet comique (ballet drama).

I've done this because the book I'm looking at now (Bland 1976) lists at least one other ballet as having been put on before this one (although it mentions this one at great length, spelled as Balet Comique de la Royne Louise). I think the operative word in this sentence is "produced", but I am unsure how this is quantified or where I could find a source to back this up. This book lists "the first French entertainment of this kind [ballet de cour] of which we have details" as being the Balet des Polonais (1573). Therefore, I think this bit of history merits clarification and I'd be much obliged if someone could clarify. :] --Keitei (talk) 09:52, 19 December 2006 (UTC)


 * You will find Ballet Comique de la Reine Louise spelled different ways, depending on the sources you consult. It is also important to define what you mean by "the first ballet"; because the ballet comique was a quite different entertainment than what we are accustomed to seeing when we go to the ballet these days.  Generally speaking, it is correct to assert that this 1581 production was the first ballet; it is widely accepted as such by many sources, usually with some reason the author chooses Ballet Comique de la Reine Louise over another ballet.  If you consult Lincoln Kirstein's "Four Centuries of Ballet", Kirstein says Balet des Polonais is "loosely termed a 'ballet'" (pg. 54, Dover publication, 1984).


 * Kirstein will always steer you in the right direction. In addition to Four Centuries, consult his A Short History of Classic Theatrical Dancing.  If you consult Balanchine's New Complete Stories of the Great Ballets, you'll see Balanchine calls it Ballet Comique de la Reine (no Louise).  It is best perhaps not to try to say definitively which ballet was the first ballet, but to describe why it is considered a ballet, and why it is considered to be the first ballet; any good history of ballet approaches it in this manner.  The International Dictionary of Dance, edited by Selma Jean Cohen, who heads the UCR PhD in dance history program, will certainly have some fantastic information written by someone who is an expert.  You might also consider looking at the Grove Dictionaries of Music & Opera; they are such excellent resources, and often have entries for dance productions.


 * Concerning the phrase "produced and shown", according to Kirstein, Le Ballet des Polonais (again, a minor spelling variation), "impressed an inflential yet limited audience of courtiers and diplomats". In comparison, he says the libretto for Ballet-Comique de la Royne Louise was published (and, one presumes, distributed) and the production was "widely imitated", thus reaching a larger audience than the earlier ballet.  The fact that Ballet-Comique de la Royne Louise was a larger-scale work than Ballet des Polonais, and was better known, probably accounts for the fact that so often histories of dance begin with Ballet Comique de la Royne.Roseblink 13:40, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

What an AWFULghffjfjhgfhjgfhjfjfjg article
I cant believe that there are more lines devoted to Jean-Baptiste Lully than Marius Petipa or Jules Perrot or Balanchine!!! Oh Dear.......to make matters worse there is actually a photo of Lully !!! By the way, Lully didnt do ANY casting in the works he composed.

This article is in dire need of an entire re-write - the whole history of ballet is told in poorly researched fragments, with the most crucial epochs, dancers, works, composers, and choreographers not even mentioned - The old Paris Opera (the Academie Royale de Musique) and Her Majesty's Theatre, the two theatres that played host to the heyday of the Romantic ballet and saw the masterworks of Perrot, Paul Taglioni, and Saint-Leon; the Tsarist Imperial Ballet of St. Petersburg and Petipa's golden age, the grand Ballet Russe and Mikhail Fokine....

No mention of Nicholas Sergeyev using the Sergeyev Collection to stage Petipa's works/revivals for the Imperial Ballet for the first time in the west (i.e. The Sleeping Beauty, The Nutcracker, Swan Lake, Coppelia, Giselle, etc.)

And what is this ridiculous section on the "illusion of flight in ballet"....what the...?

--Mrlopez2681 02:28, 14 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm really really sorry. I've been doing it chronologically. There is more on Lully because he was before the rest. What was there before was worse, I guarantee you, but I am nowhere near finishing it. I also despise how it currently claims ballet ended in 1850. Also, the illusion of flight in ballet section is one I hope to get rid of completely eventually...
 * What I've been doing is citing what is there, and planning on expanding later, which is why it is so crap. Your help would be greatly, greatly appreciated since I am very new in ballet history. I just ask that you add citations to whatever you add, so they don't have to be added later. The early Italian era needs to be expanded very badly also... Mostly all of it does. Yeah... this article has a long way to go. --Keitei (talk) 20:55, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Why is "The Illusion of Flight" ridiculous? Certainly the dancer appears to be floating and certainly the dancer must contend with gravity. The jete is pretty important in ballet I'd say.BTW, I added the referrences.Cayte 00:56, 15 February 2007 (UTC)Cayte

Removed the "original research" tag. See also Ballon (ballet). -- megA 10:36, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Im sorry!!
iIf any one person is responsible for the bulk of the text than I apologize - my ranting and raving was by no means directed at one person, just for everyone to take note and bust out the old books on ballet history.

Most encyclopedias give poor accounts of the history of ballet - I know that it is very hard to find good sources for the history of so complex and obscure of an artform as ballet (its a funny thing - everyone knows what ballet is but knows VERY little about it). To get a hold of really good sources (I mean books) on ballet, one must raid thier local library or request intra-library loans. Ivor Forbes Guest has written some of the best historys, though unfortunately they are nearly all out of print. The other is Roland John Wiley, whos work is also out of print.

I love to work on articles, but I can only do it in my spare time. I will try to help out with this article. Ive also got a ton of historical photos that would be nice for this article, particulalry to show the evolution of the pointe shoe and the tutu, etc.

--Mrlopez2681 01:20, 15 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I have raided the library and have about five books, listed at the bottom of the page. The only section which I've added was the beginning summary at the top (before origins), and then I added a bit about Lully because what was there was completely unworkable. I haven't got past that paragraph, and was intending to touch upon Pierre Beauchamp next before delving into the next period. My prior studies (before reading these books I've got) mostly consisted of recent ballet history, within the last hundred years or so (which this article says did not happen). However, the content after the Lully paragraph is just whatever was there; I've only tried to add relevant pictures to the text. Not as a gallery of good ballet photos, but as pictures which go with the text they are placed with (therefore, ballets from 1901 aren't very relevant to ballets from 1660s). --Keitei (talk) 17:20, 15 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Also, see changes and version before beginning rewrite. Note: we are not in any way even remotely close to being finished with this rewrite. Just taking it one bit at a time. --Keitei (talk) 18:01, 15 February 2007 (UTC)


 * The best book I have ever read with a very detailed (yet not tedious) history of ballet is by Robert Geskovic in his book Ballet 101. He is the dance critic for the New York Times and ballet historian to rival even myself!!!! His book is the best in my own educated opinion.

--Mrlopez2681 20:01, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

I like to merge some articles
I've been reading this article (and the other ballet articles on Wikipedia) for about a year now. I finally created an account and have been busy working on Houston Ballet's wiki and creating the Houston Ballet's Ben Stevenson Academy wiki (which I'm still working on). I'd like to be bold and make some changes to the Ballet wiki. Would anyone object if I:
 * Merged several smaller articles and stubs such as classical ballet, neoclassical ballet, risks of classical ballet, ballet companies, and several others.
 * Grouped the information under headings such as these(not neccessarily in this order):
 * History
 * Technique
 * Methods
 * Training
 * Ballet Productions
 * Ballet Companies
 * Controversies

Unless I hear some major objections, I'm going to go for it. If everyone hates it, they can always revert it.

-- Slhogan94 14:10, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

i'm not sure that all this info should be merged, as it is confusing an already badly edited category. for example, 'contemporary ballet' is a poor label. 20th C ballet genres are modern ballet, neoclassical ballet, postmodern ballet and post structuralist ballet. contemporary ballet would relate most closely to postmodern ballet. i would agree with the other headings

Mpgough 10:11, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

needed

This page goes into a lot of detail. I am using it for a source for my research report on BALLET HISTORY. It really does need some more pictures and some more info on the various ballet companies. --68.9.60.185 18:27, 1 July 2007 (UTC) --Odile32Fouettes 18:39, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Serious Revision Needed
Not to have a beef or anything, but this whole article needs a drastic overhaul in my opinion, although I think most of it makes fascinating reading, despite certain inaccuracies. As a ballet teacher, my only concern is that the whole article smacks as if ballet is in some way a 'dead' artform, when it is actually thriving and I think more could be made of this in terms of completely revising the layout to account for 'old' ballet and 'new' ballet being addressed sperately. I suggest condensing the history of ballet and providing much more information about ballet as it is today, with a section about actual technique, with perhaps a brief glossary and descriptions of some core ballet terminology (plies, tendus, glisses, jetes etc.) I think it would also be prudent to make light of how the different methods of dance have affected ballet throughout history and how certain methods have become 'fashionable' at times and how this has attributed to ballet becoming as specialised and athletic as it is today. In general I agree with earlier comments that maybe some of the dusty ballet history books need putting away and a bit of fresh ballet blood being brought into the fold. If anyone agrees with me, I am happy to write some of this new stuff myself as I am teaching ballet at a high level and my knowledge would certainly be 'useful', but I would need a lot of help in finding references and sources that would be appropriate. Thanks all Crazy-dancing 12:08, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Favor/Disfavor in Techniques Section
I think the bit about the Cecchetti method regrettably falling out of use in Italy could use some citation (it certainly doesn't seem out of favor in the US), and whether that is 'regrettable' or not strikes me as highly subjective. Anyway, two things about that: 1) it would be great to know who thinks it's falling out of favor, and who regrets it;  2) if we're going to talk about popularity of styles, maybe that would be better placed in another section, regarding history & development? My understanding is that the Techniques & Methods section is about the existence of various styles, not how successful or popular they are. I would love to hear about why one style has 'won out' over others, but think that might deserve its own subtitle.

I totally support the idea that Crazy-dancing suggested above. The reason I came onto this page was because I wanted to refresh my memory about some of the fundamental differences between Cecchetti and Vaganova methods (the way the room is numbered, structure of the class, etc). It would be delightful if someone would start putting this sort of info up, along with a vocab list, etc. - as proposed.

Yikes - why are there separate articles for Ballet and Classical Ballet? The content is almost exactly the same! I definitely vote to remove one of them, or merge, even it the modern and postmodern articles are kept apart. Isocephaly 23:31, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

I changed some spelling errors in this piece, but there is still a few things that need to be worked on!

Is it true that point shoes can cause arthritus in your feet?

Classical Dance
I don't really understand why Classical Dance redirects here. Ballet is not the same thing as Classical Dance. Ballet is a particular kind of choreographic representation, and the basis of it is manly classical dance. Classical dance is a genre of dance, along with contemporary dance and modern dance. As well, Contemporary Ballet is not a genre of dance, but is a theatrical and choreographic representation, which cannot be the same thing as Contemporary dance. Is like saying that a classical music concert (which is a representation/perfomance) is the same thing as classical music. --85.18.136.105 (talk) 19:52, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Needs sorting
Just looking back, I again have to concur that this is a dreadful article and as one of the most important in dance, needs some serious attention. I think we should look to merge both the Classical Ballet and Ballet articles as they are one and the same. I think the main ballet article should then have a history of ballet and its development up the mid 1900s. Then I think it should break off into other articles relating to dance styles that have developped from ballet and links put in to Modern Dance, Contemporary Dance etc, with a complete article about modern classical ballet as performed today by such companies as the Kirov, Royal Ballet, Paris Opera and NYCB etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Crazy-dancing (talk • contribs) 13:58, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

It's fine...
This page isn't bad at all it's actually pretty good! It just doesn't go into depth as well as it could, but overall it does cover most information on ballet. I wouldn't say all of it is necessarily truthful just that it has some truth to it. Overall it's a pretty good article and nobody should be making fun of it.

--Balletgirl1 (talk) 02:24, 16 January 2009 (UTC)Balletgirl1--Balletgirl1 (talk) 02:24, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

There are too many differnt opinions of ballet! there are over 4 different schools, many diiferent exceptions and punctuations! everyone needs to understand just that! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.76.218.58 (talk) 01:37, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

its really hard —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.170.121.43 (talk) 08:41, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Removed Redundant sentences 10/19/09 I have removed one copy of the following sentences since they were in the article twice. If I have stepped on someone's work as they were mid improving this article, I apologize

Removed sentences: The early ballet dancers were not as highly skilled as they are now.[1] It has since become a highly technical form of dance with its own vocabulary. It is primarily performed with the accompaniment of classical music. It has been influential as a form of dance globally and is taught in ballet schools around the world, which use their own cultures and societies to inform the art —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.202.113.121 (talk) 08:05, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

types of music played for ballet
'''this page doesnt say anything about it. so what they usually play is Symphany which is orchestra. instrumental music'''. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.109.236.87 (talk) 00:37, 29 January 2010 (UTC)