Talk:Ban Chao

Untitled
I like the article, but the photo of the crossbow in the display case is very hard to interpret. It just looks very bizarre to me, even though I understand the basic function of a crossbow. Could someone write some sort of explanation of why it looks so odd? Peter Isotalo 13:11, Mar 17, 2005 (UTC)


 * Hi, it's really the way it looks at Musee Guimet, and its shape it probably due to weathering and deformation... it is made of wood and is more than 2000 years old after all. Also the arc (the bow) is missing. The item next to it on the right is a trigger mecanism made of bronze, from the 2nd-3rd century CE, and it is a very fine piece in an amazingly good condition. PHG 13:19, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * Is it possible to show it from a different angle? It just doesn't seem to make sense when depicted from side like that.
 * Peter Isotalo 16:10, May 25, 2005 (UTC)

Ban Gu?
Were Ban Chao (32-102) and Ban Gu (32-92) twins? -- Toytoy 13:39, Mar 17, 2005 (UTC)


 * (Duplicating my answer from Talk:Ban Gu) It would appear so, if this page, this page, and this page are correct. -- Vardion 19:06, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Caspian Sea/Ukraine
From the east coast of the Caspian sea it's quite far to Ukraine, which is north of the Black Sea. If his envoy probably only reached the Black Sea, Ban Chao himself probably didn't go as far as Ukraine. 193.171.121.30 15:29, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Romanization incorrect?
The pinyin romanization should be Ban Zhao, and I believe the Wade-Giles is Pan Chao without the apostrophe.


 * I wonder if, perhaps, you're confusing Ban Chao (班超) with his sister, Ban Zhao (班昭). I'm fairly certain that the pinyin romanisation of the character 超 is indeed "chao". (I don't know about Wade-Giles, though). -- Vardion 23:23, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * In today's Mandarin Chinese:
 * 班(超)：bopomofo: ㄔㄠ; pinyin: Chāo; sounds like "chow mien".
 * 班(昭)：bopomofo: ㄓㄠ; pinyin: Zhāo; no comparable sounds in English. Sounds like meas ure's "s" [ʒ] + [ao] → [ʒao] (see International Phonetic Alphabet).
 * I forgot to sign. -- Toytoy 00:12, Mar 18, 2005 (UTC)

ah yes, that's probably it. got them mixed up in my head for some reason. i didn't even bother to look at the characters or the portrait in the article. only stopped by because it was a "new article" on wikipedia frontpage. sorry about that.

NOTE:

 * I came across this article looking for info, I could use in a report for school, and finding a section about Merv (Expedition to the doorstep of Europe, next the picture of the crossbow) I saw some information on an alliance he made. Next to this, there is a sentance that says "NOTE: The correct information here should state..." Um...If something is written wrongly, you should fix it, not leave notes. The way it's currently written is very confusing. 69.236.76.121 (talk) 04:37, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Caspian Sea
Much of vol.I of Yule/Cordier's To Cathay and the way thither is available [here http://books.google.com/books?id=SAqgAb41ifIC&printsec=frontcover&hl=de]. The important quote ("It is not, however, doubtful that he did not push his conquests to the Caspian [..]") is on p. 41. Yaan (talk) 14:48, 5 March 2009 (UTC)


 * I do not think it is very useful to elaborate on the claim that Ban Chao reached the caspian unless someone can bring up a modern academic source on the Han Dynasty (this does not include encyclopedias or non-specialist works) that does elaborate, or even mention, on this claim. In particular, I do not think it is very useful to mess up the grammar in the section about said claim so much that readers become confused about who claims what, or to add misrepresentations. Thomson says that it is "a misreading to suppose, as some have done, that he [Ban Ch'ao, Y.] himself advanced to the Caspian", not the other way 'round. Yaan (talk) 20:00, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
 * P.S. If someone can show that there is a real, that is, two-sided, debate about whether Ban Chao reached the Caspian - i.e. that there are authors who say that those authors who claim he did not reach the Caspian, that is, Henry Yule, Oliver Thomson, and apparently Edouard Chavannes and Frederick J. Teggart are wrong - then we should of course include this too. So far I have only seen a one-sided debate: Some pretty authorative authors who claim that Richthofen and all those who just copied his narrative are wrong, and some authors that are apparently not aware of these counterclaims. Yaan (talk) 13:10, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Did Ban Chao ever reach Merv?
User:99.130.8.150 added a claim today that Ban Chao reached Merv in 97 CE and gave as a reference a link to a tourist website: which makes the romantic claim that: "Accompanied by horsemen arrayed in bright red leather,he himself went as far west as Merv and made contacts with Parthia,Babylonia and Syria." There is no reference or even date for this amazing account given on the website. There is absolutely no such reference in any of the Chinese historical texts, or any other ancient source. This appears to be pure fantasy. All that we really know about these contacts with the West is included in the 'Chapter on the Western Regions' in the Hou Hanshu which says:


 * "In the ninth Yongyuan year [97 CE], during the reign of Emperor He, the Protector General Ban Chao sent Gan Ying to Da Qin [the Roman Empire]. He reached Tiaozhi [Characene and Susiana] next to a large sea [the Persian Gulf]. He wanted to cross it, but the sailors of the western frontier of Anxi [Parthia] said to him: "The ocean is huge. Those making the round trip can do it in three months if the winds are favourable. However, if you encounter winds that delay you, it can take two years. That is why all the men who go by sea take stores for three years. The vast ocean urges men to think of their country, and get homesick, and some of them die." When [Gan] Ying heard this, he discontinued (his trip)."

You can check this out in my draft translation at: or wait until my new book - a much revised and enlarged version - which is due to be published soon: Through the Jade Gate to Rome: A Study of the Silk Routes during the Later Han Dynasty 1st to 2nd Centuries CE. An annotated translation of the Chronicle on the ‘Western Regions’ from the Hou Hanshu. Booksurge. ISBN 978-1-4392-2134-1. It contains detailed discussions of the movements of Ban Chao as well as Gan Ying. In any case, there is no evidence whatsoever that Ban Chao ever got farther than the Tarim Basin except for one brief reference in his bibliography that he once went as far (south) as the "Hanging Passages," which were probably in northern Hunza. Sincerely, John Hill (talk) 04:03, 27 September 2009 (UTC)


 * That Ban Chao reached Merv or even the Caspian is a somewhat common claim that apparently goes back to Richthofen. However, as far as I can see it has long been debunked as a myth. See also my posts further above. Regards, Yaan (talk) 15:04, 29 September 2009 (UTC)